How many of you would agree or disagree with this statement?

[v-man]

If necessary, sure, why not.
If not necessary, why?

[Graybeard]

Ethics in hunting laws , guess ethics depend on location more than morals.

Yes most certainly does. Your own personal morals does play a part a large part even in your personal ethics. So should the law in the area where you are. But never forget that ethics are a strictly personal thing unlike laws which are binding on all in the area to which they apply. Being the law and binding doesn't necessarily always make it the right thing to do, the moral thing to do or the ethical thing to do.

Still each person has a personal, ethical and moral decision to make each time they decide to break a law. It is a very personal decision and no one can say if at that moment they do it if it is the correct decision for them so long as it doesn't adversely affect others. To steal, rob or kill is as a rule legally wrong, morally wrong and unethical but at times each of those things might be done by anyone no matter how strong their morals and ethics. It is therefore situational ethics that truly are all that matters.

In this given situation what are you gonna do? Your response is your code of conduct, ethics or morals as you wish to call it. It ain't gonna be the same for all of us even in the same situation and what the law says might or might not play into it. Just because you don't like it and it's not what you'd do does not make it wrong for me or the next guy to do it.

If necessary, sure, why not.
If not necessary, why?

For some to prove to them self or others that they can is all the reason they need. Who are you or I to say they are wrong? As long as it's legal and they feel it is within their own moral/ethical code then at that time for them it is not wrong. Well unless they flub it and then it was wrong regardless I guess.

[Mohawk]

  Even the differences in ethics are very broad. Will a bow kill deer effectively, sure. But they can be horrible cripplers too. I keep finding other peoples deer that weren't found by the hunter that have been dead for over a week. But it doesn't mean that bows are unethical. It just means the hunter was a poor shot or didn't know how to find a wounded deer. If the deer didn't leave a blood trail they gave up the search even though a trail of overturned rocks and broken cedar limbs were ignored, or just not noticed.

[SHOOTALL]

we hunt in some areas to control deer so why not bait ? in other areas you can bait but the deer need little control .

[Badnews Bob]

It is legal to hunt here in Kentucky with any centrfire cartridge, Its also legal to bait deer and hunt over the bait. That makes it easy to get a close shot. You could get a very good shot with a .38 that way, I am positive it would work well. I have about 30 other rifles and pistols that are much better for the job so a .38 will not be used unless it is a have to situation.  If I was hungry I don't think I'd think twice about if it was legal or ethical, I am not gonna starve, I think that outwieghs any other arguement.

BTW I don't like tracking wounded deer, Thats why I ambush them from a tree stand with a .45-70 or a .50 cal front stuffer, (My two favorites) they go down and I see where they fall, maybe thats not what some people like but it works well for me.

[kiddekop]

I carry my SS Rossi Mod 88 2" 38special for a cranial shot in a wounded down animal but not for general hunting.

[Swampman]

My scoped Contender would shoot .38 Specials well enough that I'd have probably shot a deer at 100 yards with it.

[SHOOTALL]

at a 100 yards would there be enough energy left to kill a deer ?

[SHOOTALL]

when did remington start making TC"S

[Redhawk1]

My scoped Contender would shoot .38 Specials well enough that I'd have probably shot a deer at 100 yards with it.

  Some people should not be allowed to hunt. 

[Larry Gibson]

Oh you mean you wanted to know WHICH? Well why the heck didn't you say so? You just asked how many either agree or disagree. 

I tend to agree in certain circumstances but disagree with its general use for such. The very first and perhaps only deer my best friend Billy Doss (now deceased) killed was taken with a .38 full wadcutter bullet I had cast for him from linotype and loaded over a very heavy dose of Red Dot powder to 1000 fps per his request. It was bang-flop but what would have happened had he not put it in the brain I dunno.

I'd not want to use any jacketed bullet for such work personally and would want a good hard case semiwadcutter with as wide a meplat as possible. the two bullets I'd most trust for such would be the Lyman 358156 and 358429. I'd load them really hot well into the +P+ range and shoot them only from .357 chambered revolvers but given such and a close enough range I could carefully place them properly I'd not be afraid to use it on deer.

I'd prefer not to use any jacketed bullet and would be very careful of my bullet placement even with the cast bullets. I would expect full penetration and a dead deer tho.

I do not generally speaking consider the .38 special to be a deer hunting round however.

Agree with Graybeard.  

First deer (nice big blacktail doe) I killed with a handgun was with a 6" M&P .38 Special using Peters 158 gr RN bullets.  One shot did the trick.  I know a lot of handgun "hunters" that are not very "viable" with their .44s, .454s and now the S&W cannons simply because they can't shoot them accurately.  They would probably be a lot more "viable" as hundgun hunters if the used a lessor cartridge like the .357 or .41 magnum or even the .38 Special or .45 ACP.  

I also do not consider the .38 Special to be a "deer hunting" round. I do think a lot more credence should be given to marksmanship ability instead of "which is the better cartridge" in our discussions.  If a person can not handle a large caliber cartridge or a certain type of handgun to be able to effectively hit the heart/lung area of a deer then they have no business using it.  I don't care if it is a .22LR or a .500 S&W.  

More important than cartridge or bullet selection is marksmanship.  As to "some people should not be allowed to hunt." I think the same thing applies to a great many of those with .44s or .454s.  I've watched most of them close their eyes and jerk the trigger because of the recoil.  They go away smiling at themselves because all they need do is "hit" the deer somewhere with such awesome power.  This is not specific to handgunners either, I've seen the same with rifle hunters, muzzle loaders and bow hunters.  I've become a long time believer that we can not legislate or regulate intelligence, ability or ethics in such matters as what is ok and not ok for handgun cartridges to hunt with.  Some are fine with .44s and .454s but most would honestly be served much better with less recoiling cartridges and much more practice.

Larry Gibson

[Swampman]

at a 100 yards would there be enough energy left to kill a deer ?

With a max loaded .38 Special out of a 10" Contender barrel?  Of course!

It would have more energy than a 4" .357 revolver.

[S.S.]

Sometimes when you need some meat in the freezer,
ethics do not mean a whole lot. Would I use a .38 spl. if anything
else a bit more powerful was available? nope!
I hate tracking. I like them to pile up where they are hit.

[45-70.gov]

i  would put  my  centenial  2 inch  with  38  against  any  bow

just  use  reason  and  know yours  and your  equipments  limitations

i  want to  take  something  with  my  snubby
but  i am  such a poor  hunter  i don't  need  to be  further  handi capped

[Camba]

I think this subject is begining to be like the "pro-life vs. pro-choice" and I am pro-gun.

Camba

[BAGTIC]

In Kalifornia the .25 ACP is legal though I don't know what that proves one way or another.

[Mohawk]

  For hogs in Texas baseballs, toothpicks, and stale Cheetos are legal but people don't use them. Each and everyone has their margin of confidence and level of deductive logic. My rifle in my early '20's was a Winchester Model 70 in .338 Win Mag. After several deer and javelina taken, it was obvious, it was obsurd and was entirely unneeded, so I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Will I turn down a broadside shot on a deer with a 4" Model 10 .38 loaded with standard pressure solids at 10yds...no. Will I turn down a 10 yd broadside shot on that same deer with a bow, or even a .500 S&W....yes, because I don't know the weapon and have had no experience to gain any confidence. And for hogs, no way the .38 should be put to the task, much harder animal, but deer, at least here, are not that tough. A good 6" of penetration and you accomplished your goal. And as far as shoulder shots. A deer's center "shoulder" is nothing but average muscle, not bone. When I've used a .38 to harvest venison it wasn't to "prove" it can be done..It was, because the freezer was getting empty, wife is out of work, the bills are behind, and you weren't expecting a deer to be within 20yds, and I used what I had at the time. If someone uses a .32 ACP, .25 ACP, or a 454 Casull, then go ahead, I've never used them. But I have used the .38

[SHOOTALL]

guess i see the reason Virginia set a min. bore size for rifles and handguns and a min. foot pounds of energy for handguns .

[SHOOTALL]

and they say ya can't fix stupid !

[buck460XVR]

I think this subject is begining to be like the "pro-life vs. pro-choice" and I am pro-gun.

Camba

yep, it's starting to take the direction all of these "minimum caliber for deer" and the "Ruger versus Smith" threads take. Folks just have to realize we are not all the same and we all have different standards. We have to respect other's choices and support their right as fellow gun owners to make that choice....even if we disagree. There's too many anti-gunners with enough ammo already that bash us, we don't need to help them out and bash each other.

One thing I noticed about these threads is that many accuse those of us that use big-bore handguns of trying to compensate for bad shooting. May be true for some, but @ 70 yards with open sights, I'm a much better shot with the .460 than I am with my 686. Even tho I have taken several deer with the .357, I'm much more confident with the X-Frame.....and as many have said, "shot placement is key".

[Mohawk]

and they say ya can't fix stupid !

Not everyone needs the law to tell them what is right and wrong. Anyone who uses a .25 ACP on deer is a moron, and most persons know this. We all know that. The thread was about the .38.

[Lloyd Smale]

im sure if you put a 38 slug in a deers head at 200 yards it would kill that deer deader then hell. It sure isnt going to bounce off!

at a 100 yards would there be enough energy left to kill a deer ?

[NE Hunter]

I live in ME and up here we can use the .22 Mag for deer hunting. I never gave it much thought until this post about the .38 special, but it has to be better than the .22 mag.  Don't have any first hand experience with either just looking at what is legal and going up from there.

[SHOOTALL]

LS, you most likly are right but that's a big if .

[Ak.Hiker]

Their is quite a difference between a 173 grain Keith load in the 38 Special and some of the light weight SD loads on the market. In a full sized 38 with a good cast load I would think you would have plenty of penetration. If I had to pick a factory load I would go with something like the 158 grain +P LSWCHP. 

[45-70.gov]

and they say ya can't fix stupid !

Not everyone needs the law to tell them what is right and wrong. Anyone who uses a .25 ACP on deer is a moron, and most persons know this. We all know that. The thread was about the .38.

some  people  are  hnting  pigs   with  KNIVES
i  would  prefer  a  25 acp  to that

it  is a mater  of  range  i guess

and ''you can't fix  stupid''  applies    but  i would  love to go along  and  watch

i  want  to take  a deer  or  hog  with  my carry  gun just  because
i  nkow  i  will  have to get  real close  and  i am  such a poor  hunter  that  will  be a handycap
i  have  a hard  time getting anything  with a scoped 308  ''you can't  fix stupid'  may also  apply  here  too

[Mohawk]

  My partner worked an MP station in the military when a soldiers wife walked in to report a shooting. She reported her husband shot her. She proceeded to pop out 5 .25 ACP rounds out of her chest as if they were pimples. I'll stick with a nice hog knife if given the choice, but I hear what you're saying .45-70...

[45-70.gov]

my  dad  once  told  my  about  taking  3 acp slugs  out of a mans  head  that  failed to penetrate  his  skull

it  knocked him out   and  he  went  in  for  stitched  and  didnt  know  he was  shot

no  details  of  slug ... fmc  assumed

spear  maybe  but  no  knife

[SHOOTALL]

I said "some" use big bore mag's to offset bad shot placement . I did not say all !
Example - the 454 , short chambers by design . When lighter bullets are used the gun in most cases is a flat shooter ideal for south eastern WT deer ( 80 - 140 lb. ) extending the useful range of the hand gun , so why do a few hunters hunt them with 300 gr. or larger bullets ? Most i have asked reply " CAUSE YOU CAN HIT UM ANY WHERE AND THEY STOP " I rest my case .
Mine is loaded with light bullets thank you very much !

[Redhawk1]

I said "some" use big bore mag's to offset bad shot placement . I did not say all !
Example - the 454 , short chambers by design . When lighter bullets are used the gun in most cases is a flat shooter ideal for south eastern WT deer ( 80 - 140 lb. ) extending the useful range of the hand gun , so why do a few hunters hunt them with 300 gr. or larger bullets ? Most i have asked reply " CAUSE YOU CAN HIT UM ANY WHERE AND THEY STOP " I rest my case .
Mine is loaded with light bullets thank you very much !

I use the bigger bullets because, I load for bigger game and they shoot good in my gun. No need to re-sight in with a lighter bullet.
Yes shot placement is key, and I despise anyone that thinks you can just shoot them anywhere.

I have never see much difference if any using a 240 gr. hard cast bullet or a 300 gr. hard cast bullet. I am talking the wound with hard cast bullets, usually one hole in and one hole out.