H-S Precision and the Lon Horiuchi endoresment

[Duckhunter39480]

Is this all there is to the H-S Precision Lon Horiuchi endorsement letter.  I would have believed that the Second Amendment advocates and the "justice for all" crowd could raise more uproar than this.  I really thought that many of the old timers on this forum would carry the torch by condemning H-S Precision for their lack of sensitivity.  There should be a hue and cry throughout all the forums with a great deal of righteous indignation about this inconsiderate use of any endorsement from so vile an individual.  I did expect to find more information on GBO than this.  Were they a sponsor or something?

[Graybeard]

Geez it's been posted on about every forum on the site at least twice and hashed and rehashed here a hundred times. Folks have been writing letters, e-mails and making phone calls. Where were you back when that was going on?

[myronman3]

the boss is as right on this as can be.   what more do ya want?

[Duckhunter39480]

Apparently I have come late to the party.  Has anyone seen a comment from the NRA?  I have asked in two separate emails but to date have received no answer. 

This used to be my NRA but I'm not so sure lately.  After all, Lon Horiuchi is a shining example of the "jack booted thugs" comment that caused the the NRA so much bad publicity years ago.

Is there any responses from dealers or manufacturing concerns.  I have seen Remington's response and I am very pleased with their stance.  I'm going to buy a new Remington something just to show my support.

[myronman3]

I have seen Remington's response and I am very pleased with their stance.  I'm going to buy a new Remington something just to show my support.

care to spread the word about that?  a link or something?

[Duckhunter39480]

I can't find the thread I read last night but it seems that Remington is doing the right thing by using their influence with h-s precision.  I did look at some of Remington's online ads and H-S only appears in a couple of them and those may be gone by now.


This references Tommy Miller's (Remington Arms) response.  There are others but I can't find them.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=795021&page=

This references H-S Precision's apology.
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/40978-hs-precision-responds-lon-horiuchi-criticism.html

[Graybeard]

I've not personally heard of anything at all from the NRA. No big surprise there as HS most likely is an advertiser with them. You should be able to go to their site and see if they have commented.

[myronman3]

i see no offical announcement on remingtons website.  screw remington.   they do the right thing here, the rifle i am shopping for the wife may be a remington.  if not, there isnt a chance that it will be a remington. 

[Duckhunter39480]

I agree with you on the Remington response but I have seen a rather conclusive statement by the Remington CEO, Tommy Miller.  That is why I see more Remingtons in my future.  Believe me, if it were otherwise the show would stop right here.  There are too many other good choices and I will spend my money with my friends.

I have requested a response from the NRA and a couple of other organizations but I have not received a response.  Tonight I will email our regional NRA rep and ask him for a comment.  I'll let you know.  BTW, your regional NRA rep's email address is posted on page 66 of the January issue of the "American Rifleman"

[myronman3]

i just figured out why i like you,  another green haired creature in the avatar!!!
please do post up any information you get, it would be appreciated.  there might be a remington r25 in my future if they did/do the right thing.   it seems kinda like they are waiting to see how big the responses is instead of doing the right thing immediately.... i am giving them a bit more time, but not too much longer before i make up my mind.  as it is, i aint buying from midway usa, cabela's, or any other company that does buisness with hs; and have sent them letters explaining that. 

[Duckhunter39480]

This is another one of the post that I found that gave support to the Remington response.

http://www.wisconsingunowners.org/News_December3-2008_HSPrecisionDigsIn.cfm

Still no word from the NRA.

[myronman3]

i sent this to cabela's today.

my name is myron ******. 
  i am emailing you about hs precision and their proud endorsement by  Lon Horiuchi; he is the scumbag that shot an unarmed woman while she was holding her infant, her name was vicki weaver.  whether one thinks the woman broke a law or not is debatable.  that is not why i am writing you today.  i am writing to inform cabelas that while they carry any products from h.s. precision, my buisness will be going to other companies that do not carry their products.  i do not support blatant murder or companies that think this type of thing is a credential that someone should be proud of.   
   if cabelas drops hs precisions products, i will resume my buisness with you.  until then....
  thanks for your time and consideration.   myron ******

[lakota]

i sent this to cabela's today.

my name is myron ******. 
  i am emailing you about hs precision and their proud endorsement by  Lon Horiuchi; he is the scumbag that shot an unarmed woman while she was holding her infant, her name was vicki weaver.  whether one thinks the woman broke a law or not is debatable.  that is not why i am writing you today.  i am writing to inform cabelas that while they carry any products from h.s. precision, my buisness will be going to other companies that do not carry their products.  i do not support blatant murder or companies that think this type of thing is a credential that someone should be proud of.  
   if cabelas drops hs precisions products, i will resume my buisness with you.  until then....
  thanks for your time and consideration.   myron ******

I sent a simialr e-mail to Larry Potterfield at Midway USA about two weeks ago and never recieved an answer. Therefore I will  only order form Midsouth or Natchez as a quick search on their sites returned nothing for "H-S Precision".

Apparently Midway does not think enough of me as a customer to address my concerns. I have recently requested to be removed from their mailing list and they have yet to respond to that inquiry either.

I also heard that Potterfield owns Cheaper Than Dirt too. Any truth to that?

[myronman3]

i too, sent a letter to midway.  no answer.  good enough for me,  as i know of plenty of other places to get what i need.   i will spend my money elsewhere, and, spread the news far and wide.  i know of at least 3 other shooters who will stop buying from midway after i inform them of this, and i plan on it.  now if each one of them knows a few people......
  i will give cabela's a couple of days before i make a decision on them.  tick, tock. tick, tock.

[Graybeard]

I also heard that Potterfield owns Cheaper Than Dirt too. Any truth to that?

Yes that's a fact. They own another also but for the life of me can't recall which right now. Maybe Sportsman's Liquidators or some such. It used to go by a different name than it now has I think.

[Brett]

What's next... Saran Wrap adds featuring Jeffrey Dahmer?

[Duckhunter39480]

I finally extracted a response from the NRA.  It seems that they are taking a wait and see position on this issue.  I had three conversations with NRA representatives and as a result of the first conversation I need the help of the NRA members on this forum.

I called the field representative for my area and asked if he was aware of the issue with H-S Precision/Lon Horiuchi.  He stated that he was not and this was the first he had heard of it.  This controversy has been swirling for a couple of weeks now and for him not to be aware of it means that we at the grassroots level are not doing our job.  I would appreciate it if everyone would contact your area representative and ask them to comment on the HSP/LH issue.  If they have never heard of it, it is your job to explain it to them.  Your 'field rep" contact information is located on page 66 of the January issue of "American Rifleman".  He did give me a contact number at NRA headquarters.

The second conversation was with a representative at NRA HQ.  She was aware of the issue and I asked her for the official position of the NRA on this subject.  We discussed the issue for a while and she agreed to send me the the information, which she subsequently did.  Essentially, I was informed that the NRA and H-S Precision has a "relationship" and HSP was permitted to use the NRA logo as part of the agreement.  I explained to her that I was unhappy with my organization in not taking a firm, public, position on the controversy.  She assured me that the issue has not been completely settled and additional comments from the NRA were possible.

The third conversation was with someone in the NRA-ILA and he also began his explanation of the NRA response with a rehash of the NRA position on the Ruby Ridge episode.  I explained to him that we were in complete agreement about Ruby Ridge and Lon Horiuchi; however, my current concern was not about Ruby Ridge but about H-S Precision's use of an endorsement by a particularly vile individual.  I asked him why an article on this issue was not included in the January issue of the "American Rifleman".  He told me that the magazine, as with most magazines, has a long lead time and that issue had already gone to print.  I told him that I would look for the article in the February issue. 

I would paste the letter here but is kind of long and I don't know what the rules are on this sort of reproduction.  I will be happy to send those of you who want to see the letter from the NRA and my reply to it if you will send me your address.  I can see where this might get out of hand so be patient.  If GBO can allow me to post it here I will do this also.

[myronman3]

i got this reply from cabela's tonight...

Dear Myron,

Thank you for you recent email.

We are very glad you have brought this to our attention! I have passed your comments along to our cooperate departments so they can look into this further so we may be able to take the appropriate action.

If you have and further questions, or comments, please let us know and we will be happy to assist.

Sincerely,

Tena

i'll give them one thing, at least they know how to get back to you!!  less than 8 hours after i sent it!   i hope they do the right thing here, and i will be following it up within a reasonable amount of time.   if they do the right thing, i will be placing an order with a phone call explaining i appreciate them taking the correct coarse of action.  in they dont, then i will send them a copy of the reciept that i spent at a competitor's store that doesnt carry hs precision's products.   and, i will be sure to tell said store manager exactly why i am spending money at their store instead of cabelas.  keep us posted on the nra's stance.   thanks.

[Graybeard]

I would paste the letter here but is kind of long and I don't know what the rules are on this sort of reproduction.  I will be happy to send those of you who want to see the letter from the NRA and my reply to it if you will send me your address.  I can see where this might get out of hand so be patient.  If GBO can allow me to post it here I will do this also.

No rules against it just make sure you make it clear who wrote it and what it's in reference to.

[Duckhunter39480]

Thank you Graybeard.  The letter below is my response to the NRA Offical Position Statement.  It would be helpful if other members contacted the NRA and voiced their displeasure also.

This is my response.

"I see and appreciate your response.  I also understand the Ruby Ridge episode but that is not the issue.  My displeasure is at H-S Precision's use of the endorsement.  HSP knew of the revulsion the shooting public has for this individual and used the endorsement anyway. 
 
I want my NRA to express the same revulsion, not at Hourichui's action at Ruby Ridge, but at H-S Precision's use of the endorsement by this vile individual.  This is not another email condemning Ruby Ridge;  that has already been done by the Senate and the Courts.  This is a letter protesting the action of H-S Precision.  Do not confuse the two issues.
 
I also implore you not to camouflage our displeasure by rehashing the Ruby Ridge fiasco.  I want a letter of condemnation, addressed to H-S Precision's owners and officers, condemning this action in no uncertain terms.  If we cannot survive as an organization because of the dissolution of this "relationship" we are on pretty thin ice anyway. 
 
Our membership knows the players in this controversy.  H-S Precision is a maker of quality products.  Government contracts go to the lowest and best bid.  Any number of bureaucrats could have written a letter supporting the FBI purchase of the FBI sniper rifles.  H-S Precision has said "to hell with the gun buying public" in this advertisement.  "The gun buying public" that are their potential customers are also the NRA.
 
Please pass along my concerns and my request.  I look forward to seeing more on this subject in upcoming issues of our magazine.  Thank you for your response.
 
Sincerely,
 
Wiley E. Walker
Soso, MS
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: wileye@bayspringstel.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:58 AM
Subject: H-S Precision Response


Dear Mr. Walker,

The following is NRA’s officially position:

H-S Precision has a relationship with the NRA as a membership recruiter and as a member of NRA's "Insure Your Gun Rights" program.  Because of that relationship, the company is authorized to use NRA's seal.  However, the NRA had no role in writing or approving the text in the H-S Precision catalog attributed to Lon Horiuchi, a former FBI agent who shot Vicki Weaver during the 1992 tragedy  at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

NRA's history on this issue should make clear why we are surprised and disappointed by the catalog text.  In the 1990s, in the wake of episodes such as Ruby Ridge, the NRA played a key role in highlighting abuses of federal law enforcement power to the U.S. Congress.  Our efforts with a coalition of other civil liberties groups resulted in the creation of a blue-ribbon commission to study problems in that field.   

More specifically, NRA provided extensive coverage of the Ruby Ridge incident in its membership magazines.  That included coverage of the events at Ruby Ridge, and of the later hearings before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information, which examined Mr. Horiuchi's actions in depth.

NRA also covered the Senate committee's final report, including its finding that Mr. Horiuchi's shooting of Mrs. Weaver "clearly was inconsistent with standard FBI deadly force policy and violated the U.S. Constitution."  No reasonable reader of our coverage could conclude that NRA endorsed Mr. Horiuchi's actions, and nothing has happened since that would change NRA's view of the incident.

Best Wishes,
 

NRA-ILA Grassroots Division

 

[Graybeard]

I hope you don't hold your breath waiting on the NRA to do the right thing. They very seldom do it seems these days under the incapable leadership of Wayne LaPierre. Until he is fired and replaced by a capable and competent leader I refuse to support them in any way, shape, form or fashion. Were I not a life member I'd not be a member.

[Duckhunter39480]

Most of you got ballots and voted for several NRA directors last election.  Call, write or email these directors and tell them that we don't like the INACTION that the NRA has exhibited so.  If we can't condemn HSP's use of the endorsement, we should not have been so upset with the Ruby Ridge episode.  Ask them if they plan to continue being selectively righteously indignant.  The HSP ad is wrong and everyone, including HSP, knows it. 

[Rustyinfla]

   I must be living under a rock... this is the first time I've heard this news.


   I'm not sure which is worst. Finding out that HS is using his endorsement of their product as a sales tool or that the FBI has made him a manager?