The death of the US auto industry

[Questor]

Now that the US-based auto companys seem doomed because the government will mandate what kinds of cars are built, what brands of car do you think you'll be buying in the future?

It's amazing that one doesn't hear any reminders of the failings of the command economy of the Russians: central planning doesn't work. Markets are too complex. The real tragedy is that GM and Chrysler are taking the poison pill willingly. What they should be doing is filing for bankruptcy and following good business practices toward redepmption, and stepping on as many toes as are needed for their survival.

I imagine the regulation of the auto industry will be even more disastrous than the regulation of the heavy truck industry prior to deregulation: No innovation, and the firm establishment of foreign competition. The reason is because it's a more political industry and that invites more meddling.

It seems that Ford may have a good angle on it by not taking the money. They'll probably survive if they can get competitive with their costs. I'd like that a lot. They make good stuff.

[jgalar]

After watching the president of the UAW ripping into and blaming everyone else but the UAW and refusing to take any concessions - I have made the decision that I will never again set foot in a dealership of a UAW built vehicle.

I am boycotting the UAW

[DDelle338]

Can you boycott the UAW and still buy an american car?

[DDelle338]

This says allot.

[rex6666]

The Government has been Mandating what cars to build for years now, but
the American people wouldn't buy them.
The Unions said we don't care if you are not selling cars we want more of
everything we can think of.
When you think of an American made car do you think of a chevette, or
escort, no you think of what you want to buy, and willing to pay for.

[JonnyC]

After watching the president of the UAW ripping into and blaming everyone else but the UAW and refusing to take any concessions - I have made the decision that I will never again set foot in a dealership of a UAW built vehicle.

I am boycotting the UAW

I agree 100%. A cut in pay is better than no pay. Especially if I'm helping to pay for it.

[Swampman]

I owned 3 Escorts & liked them a lot.  I now drive Toyotas because there are no American made sub-compacts.

[wgr]

have to say that Toyota's are American made. i know the company is not American owed but neather are the rest. cars and parts made all over the world. Toyota does put alot o cash back into the country

[SHOOTALL]

It was suicide !
The insurance should not have to pay off !

[Troyboy]

Why is the blame all the uaw. What about the jackoff ceo and the other execs that make 100 of millions a year. Don't blame the working joe The blame is that of the coorperate fat cats

[myronman3]

cause the corporate fatcats point their crooked finger at the union, and it is all their fault.   people buy into that, never stopping to question their buddy the ceo who selflessly puts everyone else's best interest before their own.      why people think the union bankrupted the car companies is beyond me. 
 
  at least i know troy doesnt have the wool pulled over his eyes...now for the rest of you.......

[Hairtrigger]

Can you boycott the UAW and still buy an american car?

Yep

Honda Suburu Toyota... all have plants in Indiana

[mrbigtexan]

Why is the blame all the uaw. What about the jackoff ceo and the other execs that make 100 of millions a year. Don't blame the working joe The blame is that of the coorperate fat cats

well said

[Hairtrigger]

Why blame the UAW?
I have friends in the local GM foundry that work for 1 1/2 - 2 hours and get paid for 8.
The UAW tells GM how many people are needed to work in the GM plant!

[Brett]

If you think that the heads of the UAW are any different than the self ingratiating CEO's of the Big Three you've got your head up your backside.  The unions have become just another business in the business of making money for their officers.      They would rather see the company fold and have everyone lose their jobs than back of on their demands or make any concessions.   

[mrbigtexan]

let 'em fold, they will come back with better business practices or someone else will fill the gap.

[Lazermule]

Why blame the UAW?
I have friends in the local GM foundry that work for 1 1/2 - 2 hours and get paid for 8.
The UAW tells GM how many people are needed to work in the GM plant!

+1, I have been in and out of many UAW plants and it is absolutely sickening to see what those UAW guys get by with.  I watched one sleep for 6+ hours a day for the better part of a week while I was doing a machine install one time.  How about the "Labor Pool" where people basically get close to full pay for doing absolutely nothing and some even having other jobs on the side.

You just can't get that kind of pay for the norm in performance that has been set and compete with the Honda, Toyota and Nissan business model.  No wool over my eyes, I saw it with my own eyes and predicted this would happen someday as far back as 15 years ago when I first started working inside of the plants.  They hung themselves if you ask me, and if they don't take a pay cut chances are that they will then have no pay to cut. 

With that said, yes there has been some complete numbnuts running these companies.  Why on earth they ever signed up for what they couldn't deliver is beyond me.  Are they worth what they get paid?  I don't think so, but who else wants the job?  Not me....

Chop, cut rebuild the industry....and come back much stronger.

LAZER

[30-30man]

Sadly most of the big three are not made completely over here anymore.  Dodge gets engines from Mexico as well as Ford.  Chevrolet is even getting engines from China.  They've all outsourced so buying American doesn't wash anymore.  The main reason they are in this predicament is because of bad business.  Why is Gm building a plant in Russia and begging for money at the same time?  

  All they are going to do with our money is more outsourcing.  Bail outs don't help the US worker.  Bank of America got 15 billion of the bailout money.  Now, they are going to lay off 35,000 employees and that was no typo.  How did that help anyone but Bank of America.....I say let them drown if they are unwilling to change.  I was going to buy a Toyota for my next truck anyway....I'm tired of wrenching on the Dodges....Getting old.

[myronman3]

Why blame the UAW?
I have friends in the local GM foundry that work for 1 1/2 - 2 hours and get paid for 8.
The UAW tells GM how many people are needed to work in the GM plant!

up, your friends are to blame with their 1 1/2 hour work day for the auto makers being where they are.   even when you muliply that by how many workers are in that supposed situation (which i am taking at your word to be true), it is peanuts compared to the raping that the excutives pull.  and i aint just talking the ceo.  look at the other excutives and their salaries, yearly bonuses, retirements, stock options, perks, offices, fancy buildings, and on, and on, and on.  these bass turds then have the guts to point at the line worker, and the union, and say that is the reason they are belly up?  after flying in on private jets?   it is excess after excess in their world, and they are using the line workers and union as a scapegoat and some of you are letting jealously cloud your judgement.    

[myronman3]

you got that right 30-30.   bailing out aint going to help the average american who is footing the bill.  bail out is right,  bailing out the fat cats so they dont have to work for a living like the rest of us.  they picked the bones of the american economy clean, then ask the very people they screw to prevent them from having to pay the price of their bad decisions.  ludicious. 
   instead of calling it a bailout, as if they were bailing out the american people; they ought to call it the screwover, because that is what they are doing to the american people.   i can see the headlines now "bank of america asks the government for another 30 billion screwover".  that would be a lot more honest. 

[Heather]

This says allot.

LOL!!  The fine print is hilarious!

Heather

[billy_56081]

While I cannot talk about the union sleps at the big 3 I can tell you why our cereal is so darned expensive. I am a contractor that services many different businesses. At the union serial plant I see the guys doing exactly what lazermule describes. Heck these guys are electricians and make 6 figures with their "overtime". One hour breaks morning and afternoon, 2 hour lunches. Those are the kinds of things that make out union company's so productive and competitive, I hope the big 3 all file chapter 11 and boot the union and hire some productive workers.

[30-30man]

Another example of giving the consumer what he doesn't want...The Pontiac Aztek.....I've owned my share of the big three...I've also spent my share of time at the service department getting things fixed that shouldn't have left the factory.  People will always look for a better deal....The big three are just going to have to admit they've been beat. They either need to change what they are selling or fold.  Gm has so many lines that they don't even know what they make anymore.  The bailout will only prolong what is going to happen eventually.  How much profit do they think they can actually make when not many people want the vehicles they are trying to sell.  The ones they do sell will have to be at almost cost.  

There are several dealerships in my area.  I stopped the other day to get my 4wd serviced at the Dodge dealership.  I was warned before I got out of my truck not to wonder to the lot unless I didn't mind getting bombarded by salesmen.  He said they've marked them down to only clearing $300 or so a car and $500 a truck and they still can not move them.  He said only one person in their dealership has sold a car this month.  I know this dealership can't be alone.

[gypsyman]

It was pointed out, that in 2007, both GM, and Toyota sold the same number of vehicles worldwide. GM said it lost money, Toyota made money. Better mangement, probably. Lower overhead, definitly. Workers for Honda or Toyota make on the average, with benifits,$48/hr. GM,Ford,Chyrsler, over $70. I haven't been able to buy a new car/truck since 1979. These guys/gals better do some long hard thinking. Having a job at half that pay is better than what most unskilled workers get now. gypsyman

[Graybeard]

I don't drive cars. Haven't owned one in so long I don't even recall what the last might have been. I drive trucks. The last two new ones were both Toyota. I do have a couple of old Ford F150s sitting around here and one even still runs, well most of the time anyway.

[SHOOTALL]

Like i said suicide !
nither the uaw or management will admit they are part of the problem .
CAN"T WAIT TO SEE THE COMPANY THAT STEPS UP TO FILL THE GAP !
looking forward to some NEW products not tied to OLD problems !

the big 3 can't figure out why they lost the market , try over priced , over loaded with options not needed , and pooooooor service/quality .

[myronman3]

tm7, you are dead nuts on the mark.  you could not be any more right than you are in that last post.   especially this part....

So, if the auto corps need business re-structuring so be it...but the old management goes and certainly doesn't get rewarded, or allowed to stay for their screwups.  If put in these terms it is likely mangement will kiss and makeup with the unions once they realize they aren't going to be allowed to kill them.

[jgalar]

Eastern Airlines was killed by union workers striking.

Unions don't care about their members, they care about keeping the union going.

Why the heck is the union president at the bail out hearings! Why not the financial institutes or the part suppliers.

Here is another reason I am boycotting the UAW:
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/autos_jobs_bank/2008/12/04/158351.html

[SHOOTALL]

ya'll make my point !

[myronman3]

yeah, blame anther management decision on the union members.  you guys are kidding, right?
   if you are this easily fooled, i dont know what else to say.  it says right in that article that they started that as a way for the workers to accept robots.  you think the union came up with that idea?  bull.  that is a pure management play.  union was against robots replacing workers.  management say "we will pay you, you wont lose work"  and that is the member's fault?   there isnt one person here that wouldnt take that deal.   it isnt the members fault that management has made HORRIBLE decisions.  and then they try to paint the line workers, who didnt want to lose work to machines, as the guilty parties.  the only thing they are guilty of is trying to keep their job.  those evil &&%$#!!!
  this sure is enlightening.