Friend claims Python is better than FA?!?

[Wiking]

So, I have this friend who got into shooting about a year and a half ago. Does a lotta reading, and is really fond of weapons and likes to learn more about of them. He's one of those guys who ends up knowing everything there is to know about a given subject that has caught his interest. However, the other day, he persistantly asserted that a Colt Python (.357) is more accurate than a FA 83 .357 

He has a Python on the way, and says when he gets it, me and my FA don't stand a chance. Don't really fear him though, I'm a much better shot than he is, and can still shoot the crap out of him using only iron sights while he uses red dot and comp.

Honestly I was kinda offended by his remark  . And in the car home I thought to myself: "I'm so gonna rat him out to the guys at Graybeard Outdoors, I'm sure they'll tell him he's wrong"!

I do know Python's are legendary, and hand-tuned and what not. Also know that some models from a certain decade are said to be better than others. But come on, no way I'm buying that a 30-year-old Colt is better than a FA!

Has anyone in here ever had a Python? PLEASE tell me he's wrong! PLEASE...... 

[Lloyd Smale]

both should be very accuarate guns and i would bet a dime as to which would win.

[jphendren]

I can't say for sure which would win, but don't sell the Python short.  They can be very accurate.  I own a '67 4", and it can shoot nice tight groups at 25 yards.  I can't imagine that a Python would be more accurate than a FA, but I can believe that they could be as accurate.  I don't believe that Pythons were line bored, but maybe they were.  Pythons have a tapered bore that had some sort of "silver ball" treatment done to them, supposedly this improves accuracy.

In the thread below, read the comments by Dfariswheel.  He explains the Python better than I can.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152407

Jared

[Ken ONeill]

I once had an 8" Python that was extraordinarily accurate. When I scoped it, it would frequently put three shots in 1 1/2" at 100 yds. It also spit so bad that I would frequently get a facefull of burned 296, and in a silhouette match, it would run shooters on both sides of me off the line, if the shooting stations were close enough. I was quite happy when someone else "needed" it, and I sure let him have it.
I have owned a 9" FA Mdl. 353 for perhaps 10 years that is more accurate than that, but I don't shoot my iron sighted 4 3/4" 83 .357 nearly as well. Of course, I've gotten old. On some days, real old....
Although you can't characterize a Python as a "strong" .357 any more, don't sell their accuracy short.

[HAMMERHEAD]

I had a 6" Python and if any other revolver can do it, it's the Python.

Is it better? Who knows. For handling a lifetimes worth of magnum loads, I'll put my money on a FA '83.

For pure elegance, offhand shooting and the best trigger on any revolver, I'll back the Python.

Pythons have a tapered bore (or at least they used to) and a 1:14 twist, which is great for heavy bullets or slow loads like .38 wadcutters.

One problem with the Python. The hand holds pressure against the cylinder during the firing cycle. Over time the recoil peens the hand, the pressure is lost, and accuracy falls off. From what I've read, there are very few Python 'smiths these days who know how to handle that.

[Graybeard]

I've seen one and ONLY one detailed comparison shoot off between a Python and S&W 686. Both were same barrel length 6" as best as a can recall. It was done a lot of years ago by a magazine writer I suspect Petty as he seems to use only a Ransom rest for his shooting reviews and this one was done with both guns in the Ransom rest.

He shot a huge number of rounds of many types both factory and reloads thru both guns. The S&W won hands down.

I've owned several Pythons shot several belonging to others and competed against folks shooting them in NRA silhouette matches. While I agree they are nice and have about the smoothest action of any gun ever made I've not noted them being any more accurate than an average S&W.

The only fellow I ever saw win a match with one locally was my best friend Billy Doss (now deceased) who I believe used one that I sold him. Now that rascal could take the sorriest piece of crap around and still win with it as he often demonstrated. He once one a rifle silhouette match shooting an iron sighted Remington single shot Model 512 I think against the rest of us shooting the best scope sighted rifles available to include the Anchutz guns. De boy could shoot.

Over all I've found S&W guns more accurate which is why I still own many S&Ws and no pythons.

[myronman3]

well all i am going to say, is i had a 6 inch python, and also had a 7 1/2" model 83 44.   there is no way the python could do what the f.a. could do.  with the f.a., i could place empty 12 gauge hulls and back off until i could just see them, and then i could consistantly pick them off freehand.   i would say 3 out of 5 shots were golden.  the other two shots were my fault.   never was ever that good with any other gun, the next closest is my kimber.   matter of fact, next time i go shooting i think i will try the 12 gauge hulls to see how it compares.   i did shoot three red squirrels once, three for three without a miss, and they were not standing still. 

[billy_56081]

I have never owned either, but in my youth I fired a Python quite a bit and loved it. All I can say is, if the FA is a better, smoother more accurate gun, then it is truly a great gun.

[tatonka]

Last year I acquired a Colt Anaconda (44 mag). It was like new (previous owner said around 200 rounds fired). The action was slick and positive. I also owned a S&W 629 DX (44 mag). I needed to sell one for a project I needed to fund. I took one afternoon and fired several loads through each gun at 25, 50 and 100 yards to determine which one would find a new owner. It was close but the S&W beat the Colt in both accuracy and comfort. I've still got the S&W and 3 FA revolvers. I wish I still had the Colt as it was a beautiful piece of work. Good shooting!

[Steve P]

Pythons are accurate.  I have a Colt Trooper Mk III that is accurate.  The best silhouette score I ever shot with my Trooper out to 200 Meters was 8/40.  Then I got a Dan Wesson 357 Super Mag.  Out shot my trooper and several Pythons my friends had.  My DW is now retired and I have FA 353 and FA 41 mag.  Both shoot better than any of the other guns. 

If you look at the IHMSA or NRA Silhouette Championship results, you will see a lot of FAs and a few Dan Wessons, a spattering of S&W and Rugers.  I haven't seen a Colt in any championship results in a number of years.   Hmmmm    Believe me, the silhouette shooters shoot the most accurate handguns available. 

Steve

[Ken ONeill]

Steve,
A Python also won't stand up to the rigors of the extended useage of heavier loads needed for IHMSA or NRA Long Range competition.

[OLDHandgunner]

I've never owned a FA, but I hear they are very accurate. But I own a older Colt Python in .357 & a old Colt .357. Both of these a extremely accurate guns. Also own a few S&W's 357's and the S&W Model 586 I have is every bit as accurate as the Colt's. The S&W actions are not as good as a Colt usually, but my S&W 586 will hold it's own to about any .357 made.
The thing I've learned over the many years that I have been shooting handguns in PPC, Bullseye and just plain old target shooting, is that most of the time it's the man behind the gun that makes it shoot ( good or bad ).
The only negative I can say about my beautiful high gloss old Colt Python is that I can't just throw it in a holster and go hunting with it. It's too nice. 

[Steve P]

Steve,
A Python also won't stand up to the rigors of the extended useage of heavier loads needed for IHMSA or NRA Long Range competition.

Last time I shot that Colt Trooper was at Douglas Ridge.  I am guessing that was probably back in early 90s.  158 grain cast bullets that print one hole groups at 25 yards.  I got a few chickens at 50 and a few pigs at 100.  I don't think I touched anything beyond that.  Got my DW and I think it was probably 95 Oregon Championships that I was in shoot-off for state champion with that DW.  No question in my mind that the gun made the difference.

Steve

[SLAVAGE]

its sooo simple hes your bud cant really tell him off to bad so say it just like this...
ok ( add his name here) they are both very good guns and can shoot better than either of us ever could get out of them. but the fact of the matter is i dont have to out shoot your gun i just have too out shoot you :0) and thats easly done hahaha

Dave

[Sverre A.]

In -83 I owned a 8" Phyton - and in my minds - I can`t remember that my mod. 83/357 had better accuracy (I returned it - because the firing pins broke time after time).
Sorry  !

(the "old-firing-pin-system" on my 454 - has been 100% - and I have shot a lot of 1000`s round with it)

[Dee]

I owned two Pythons on two separate occasions. I bought both for the looks and the idea they were Colts.
As a Police instructor I have fired thousands of rounds sometimes per week, but admit I was never really into shooting targets.
I went to an invitation only school for instructors only at Tarrant County S.O.'s range for two weeks back in the mid-70s, and at the time I carried one of these Pythons. There were two officers there carrying a Python. Myself and another. We got a lot of ribbing from all the others as they carried Smiths. Everything from 38 special to 44 mag.
We had to shoot at least two qualifying matches a day on a combat course and many times shot five. After 4 days blisters were coming up on the web of hands, and the trigger fingers but, we taped and kept shooting.
I found out two things about the Python vs the Smith in that two weeks. The Python has a longer trigger pull and the weight STACKS regardless of how smooth it is, and using speed loaders you could not get thru a box of 158 grain jacketed 357 mags in a speed "demo" before heat expansion locked the cylinder. Real world on the speed demo? NO, but the point was made. The instructor, an FBI agent thought it was funny. It was a set up on the other guy carrying the Python.
I never shot less than 96 out of 100 score for the entire two weeks, but a big guy from Tyler Texas never shot less than a perfect score and he was using a Model 29 4" in 44 Mag. Back then we were taught to shoot from anchor points on the body such as the hip. He wore two t-shirts, because by the end of the day, the gas coming out between the cylinder face and the forcing cone would burn thru the first shirt, and burn his stomach just above his gun belt.
Which gun won on accuracy? Probably neither. Back then, I was a helluva shot, but that guy beat me, with a gun that was making him pay with every shot. The Python was making me pay with that longer trigger pull, and it was glassy smooth.
I went back to the Model 19 Smith after that schoool, and later to a 1911. Of course this week I sold a long carried 1911, and bought a Glock 21. That is another story.
I know nothing about your handgun brand, but I wouldn't fear the Python accuracy. Without the Ransom rest, all handguns will shoot only as close as the shooter is capable of shooting.

[Lloyd Smale]

thanks for sharing that dee. As usually i love to read your posts. Your one of the most knowlegable REAL WORLD posters on here. I had never heard those things about a python. I had one once and it was so pretty i was afraid to shoot the snot out of it and becuase of that it went the way of any gun that comes to my house that isnt shot.

[Dee]

If I can't shoot it, I don't want it. And thanks Lloyd, your posts are always full of common sense, and knowledge. If you don't know, you say so, and if you disagree you say so. Stand up!
Gun writers and gun magazines have put out a lot of BS, and Wiking's friend may think he has the advantage with his READ knowledge, but I suspect Wiking might make that Python shooter start wanting what Wiking is shooting.
What many don't realize is that if tolerances are on, and the barrels are appropriate, a snub nose will shoot WITH an 8" barrel out of a Ransom Rest. It's all about sight picture, and trigger control when you take it out of the Rest.
I was carrying a 1911 I had built and went into a store looking for a certain holster several years ago. He (the store owner) had the holster, and commented on my 1911. It was on a Colt Commander richly blued frame, and Colt slide, also excellent bluing, but the rest of the gun, had highly polished stainless, with Ivory micarta grips I had also made. The gun was a beautiful gun (at least in most opinions). He advised me that HIS Kimber would out shoot mine in a Ransom Rest, and to prove it, he would shoot me gun for gun. I told him to get his damn Ransom Rest out and lets go, I had never owned a Kimber and had always wanted one. I have no idea which pistol would have won, but I figured I was as close as his Kimber.
He admitted then that he didn't even own a Ransom Rest. I also walked out without the holster.

[efremtags]

Colts are better than FA, as my Timex watch is better than a Rolex....

[Hank08]

I had a 4' Python that I shot a lot, it was accurate.  I have a 1960s 6" unfired now but like Lloyds it's too pretty to shoot so it just sits in my safe.  Bock in the 70s and 80s I shot a lot of PPC matches.  My PPC gun is a Smith, I made Grand Master with it
and a beat a lot of shooters who were shooting Pythons.  I have 4 FA revolvers, .22 lr, .22 mag, .357 and .454.  With a 2X scope on the .357 I once shot a 5 shot 4" group at 200 yds. (185 gr. cast bullet).  These 4 are the most accurate revolvers that I've ever shot.  An average Python against an average FA, I'd bet on the FA.
H08
.

[Redhawk45]

I agree with many of the gentleman here that the gun is only as good as the person behind it   I think that more time and work goes into a FA revolver than a Colt when it leaves the factory.  If you take that Colt to the right gunsmith can it be just as good as the FA?  That could be a good question?   I have a few ruger bisley wheelguns and they are very accurate right out of the box.  I can outshoot my friend with his smith or colt all the time, but I have been shooting handguns at least ten more years than him. 

[Dee]

Redhawk45 I would be in full agreement with you, and your EXPERIENCE wins out in the end. I have always taught that 30% of your accuracy whether it be pistol, revolver, or rifle is in the trigger. Bad trigger? Accuracy falls off. Bad trigger habits? Accuracy falls off.
I used to have my SWATers run a 100 yard sprint to the firing line and shoot a group. Sometimes with a pistol, sometimes with a rifle. I did this AFTER they were given an opportunity to shoot a good group while rested. Object of the drill? Your breathing can greatly affect accuracy, however. Your heartbeat can throw you off INCHES, even with a finely tuned counter sniper rifle.
The drill was to instill THOUGHT before taking a shot.
I have seen older officers who shake a little, out shoot younger officers who do not. Why and how? The sights of the pistol or revolver are ON TARGET, more than they are off, and the shooter has learned this, and timed his trigger response to the fact. Example: If you are left of bullseye to get to right of bullseye, you must cross the bullseye, and so on.
Guys like Redhawk45, or Lloyd will take an older looser pistol or revolver, and usually out shoot a less experienced shooter with the latest so called technological miracle pistol.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got two farvorite 1911s both are favorites not because of accuracy although both do well but because they go bang every time i pull the trigger. Ones a colt gold cup that has seen more rounds then probably all my 1911s combined and NEVER misses a beat. It will shoot 1.5 inch at 25 yards. Ive got a kimber gold match that will outshoot it but i just dont have the faith in it that i have in my old colt. the other one is kind of suprising. Its a alloy framed kimber commander with the dreaded external extractor. Everybody runs and hides at the sight of one but this gun after I tweeked the extractor when new has never missed a beat and has probably 25000 rounds through it with not a single part including that extractor breaking and it to never misses a beat. It aint pretty, it never was even new and sure isnt now but Just like you related to with the python. A accurate gun is nice but if a gun wont run a 100 percent using the way your going to use it, its about good for a paperweight. though a python sure would make for a pretty paper weight.

[Wiking]

Wow, this thread kinda turned out the way I hoped for 

There's been many very good posts, and a lotta new info (for me at least) on known handguns has seen the light of day.

As for me, I bought a used 686 back in 2004 for way under blue book value. Don't know which year, but it's one of the older models where the pin is attached to the hammer. It has now had a lotta rounds of various kinds through it. Although it hasn't seen a lotta mags since I bought the FA  . What it has seen a lot of however, is polish and elbow grease... must have spent 10 hrs polishing it to fully stainless... it looks better now. I think the trigger and action is fairly smooth when considering that it's stock. I consider having a trigger job done. The gun has always shot very straight, especially with cast loads. I use a PB 120gr TC, sized to .357 with 4gr of VV N320. A nice and accurate mild load.

Honestly I really can imagine I'll ever own a gun that is more accurate than the Casull. She really likes the 180gr Hornady XTP. I'll start casting for this one shortly, hopefully I'll be able to come closer to the full potential of the gun! Ha ha, I actually named her Tykke Berta (Fat Berta) after a huge and wide canon used by the Third Reich during the war. Just me being a basket case I guess  . A FA is just sooo much more beefy and tight than all other guns!

I guess we'll just have to see what happens when my friend gets his Python.... I look forward to trying it. If I ever come across an ultimate stainless, I may very well just take it home with me, for safe keepings that is 

[Sverre A.]

My SRH in 454 - did not shoot worse that my mod. 83 do - with heavy cast  (average 2,75" at 54 yds) .
But it was not even close to the FA - when it comes to XTP 240 gr. (average 1,25" at 54 yds)

Avbove sandbags!