lower velocity loads for magnum caliber

[cbourbeau32]

I am considering buying a 300 win mag and have a question regarding loading it to a velocity around what a 308 has for whitetail and then if/when I get to make a trip to hunt some larger animals some day (hopefully) I can handload it at normal magnum levels. Is the minimum load listed in the load book for a particular powder as low as you can go or can you safely go lower than the minimun and thereby reduce velocity? Are some powers safe for doing that and others not? I would like to use the same powder for the magnum load and then the reduced velocity one as well. Thanks, Charlie

[jhalcott]

  It COULD be safer to but a .308 rifle. Then you could load it up or down a bit as you like. Keeping the .300 as a backup for that hunting trip.

[Savage]

Charlie,
Don't know where or what you're hunting that requires a 300 Mag. For anything in North America, the .308 will do anything that needs to be done. I might feel a little better with something larger for the big bears tho. Large cases like the .300 magnums do not lend themselves well to reduced loads, and are less efficient. They burn a lot more powder to develop a small increase in velocity accompanied by significant increase in recoil. Course there's the wow factor in touching off magnum rds, both front and rear, of course.
Savage

[bilmac]

I agree that there isn't anything in North America except maybe the big bears of Alaska that can't be taken handily by an 06 or 308. My theory is why have a gun that the thought of shooting makes you cringe. That said, there are lots of guys using the mags. If you must have one you might google Blue Dot Powder. Their formulas for reduced loads for jacketed bullets have always worked for me.

[BBF]

If your cartridge and bullet weight combination is listed for using H-4895 you can use a load that is 60 % of the maximum listed. Whether it will group worth a nickel is something you need to find out, there is no guarantee.

Looking at the Hodgdon 2004 Manual I see H-4895 listed from 110 gr bullets to
168 gr bullets for that powder.

Speer lists SR-4759 for some of their lighter bullets and IMR 4198 for the heavier stuff

 I presume you would want to stick with 180 gr bullets for the 300 Mag. Again from the Speer Manual it lists IMR 4198 with 29.0 gr to 33.0 gr as the powder to achieve 1700 fps to just shy of 2000 fps.

BTW. 60 gr. of H414 shows 2647 fps in the 300 Mag which is close to top loads in a 308 Win

[AtlLaw]

I believe your questions are:

#1 

Is the minimum load listed in the load book for a particular powder as low as you can go or can you safely go lower than the minimun and thereby reduce velocity?  Are some powers safe for doing that and others not?

and:
#2 

I would like to use the same powder for the magnum load and then the reduced velocity one as well.

With regard to the former:  Rumor has it that if you go below minimum listed loads you run the risk of the powder detonating.  Now mind you, I've never heard a first hand account of that happening,    but why take the chance.  Manual publishers think it' important enough to state in their manuals.

Concerning the latter:  I have one "magnum."  A 300 Winnie.  The reason I have it isn't the question here, but I don't need, or want, magnum velocities!     So, when developing a hunting load for use here in Jawja, and remembering NOT to go BELOW the minimum published load, I used the minimum loads for all the powders I tried.  The load I selected clocked out right at the published velocity for the 30/06 with the bullet weight I was using.  Close enough to what you are wanting to not make much of a difference.

If you want to reduce your velocity even further, look carefully and you might find a powder that works well in reduced loads.  Speer used to publish reduced loads in their manuals and I'm sure there are other references.  But if the only reason you are doing so is to find a powder you can also use for Mag. level loads don't waste your time.  I'll not go into the reasoning for that statement, take my word for it... or don't.     What you want, from your questions anyway, is right there in the published loads.  Develop your load and try to find a powder that gives you what you want at both the low and high end.

Sounds like great fun!  I think I'll do that with mine!   

Oops!  I see that BBF posted while I was formulating my brief... Okay, what he said!   

[charles p]

I have a 280 and a 280 Ackley.  The Ackley would make a great on-gun selection.  You can shoot standard 280 loads or take them up to 7mm Rem mag velocities.  It is pleasant to shoot and economical to reload for once you form your cases.  Ackley cases have very long case lives.

[huntswithdogs]

AtlLaw,

Detonation or flash over ain't fun! Been there done that! I still have the split cases and the painful memories to remind me. 300WM and 130gr hps using starting loads in Hornady's manual. I don't remember the powder or charge but it's written down in my load manual at the house. I fired 2 of those 10 shells I'd loaded. After pulling the bullets and rechecking the charge weights, I had a long talk with a Hornady Tech. He explained what and why it happened. To make a long story short, Certain cases need most of the room in them filled with powder to shoot properly and safely. Mine didn't and it wasn't...nough said!


Beau32
Different manuals have reduced loads listed. You may want to contact them, personally, for info on safe loads. I kinda doubt if the same powder for Mag loads is gonna work with reduced ones. Loading lighter bullets about midways in the charts may be what yer looking for. Why not just buy a 308 or 06 instead of the 300WM? Less recoil and either one will still do for most north american game.


HWD

[cbourbeau32]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking for a "one gun does it all" gun. I used to own a 300 win mag which I loaded at factory load levels but it was to much gun for whitetails. I sold it to my brother. I hope some day to save up some day for an Alaska hunt and think a 300 win mag would be good for that. Charlie

[wncchester]

As a rule of thumb, use faster powders for reduced loads.  Light loads of slow powders tend to give lousy accuracy. 

All powders are made to burn more consistantly at "normal" pressures.  Faster powders can get there and give better performance at lower velocities than light charges of slow powders that won't reach full pressure.  Usually.

4895 to 4320 sounds good for what you seek but that's off the top of my head.  ( not always a good place to be!    )

[Bob A]

There have be some very good responses to this post. The key thing is that if you want an accurate low speed load, you have to keep the pressure up with a faster powder. I have been using IMR SR4759 for this kind of load with good success, but not with the 300 Mag.
Lee has 3 good, low velocity loads for the 300 mag in the second edition of Modern Reloading.
All 3 loads use a 150 grain bullet.

IMR 4198 Min = 43.4 for 2610 fps. Max = 49.0 gr for 2900 fps at 53600 CUP
SR4759   Min = 36.9 for 2395 fps. Max = 41.5 gr for 2660 fps at 53400 CUP
IMR4227 Min= 35.8 for 2377 fps.  Max = 39.5 gr for 2590 fps at 52400 CUP.

Any of these would be a fine deer load and would be much nicer to your shoulder than 3300 fps with a std 300 mag load with 150 gr bullet.

Bob A

[BBF]

One reason SR 4759 works well in these loads is that the powder is low density.

  One (1) gr of that powder uses .0993 cubic cm of space compared to .0661 cubic cm for 1 gr of H-414

[cbourbeau32]

One reason SR 4759 works well in these loads is that the powder is low density.

  One (1) gr of that powder uses .0993 cubic cm of space compared to .0661 cubic cm for 1 gr of H-414

Thank you BBF. This is exactly what it says about 4759 on the IMR site.

[crash87]

cbourbeau, Your thinking on one rifle for all jobs is a sound one, (I just wish I was able to adhere to such thinking), and your choice of caliber/cartridge couldn't be better. The purpose of handloading is to tailor the load for the purpose at hand. The 300 Win Mag lends itself perfectly for that. One rifle so many applications, from 300 Savage power level to the Mag and everything in between. Sure you could "Buy" another rifle or two but why?, that's not the question here.            My own 300 is a Winchester Super Grade and I set out to do exactly what you want to do when I purchased it. I found it quite interesting to find reduced velocity loads. Top end loads are very easy to work up, but, reduced load have there own problems, some with disastrous consequences. That said hunwithdogs is quite correct it ain't no fun using slow burning powder (4350 4831 et al) with reduced loading, even, I might add with the low end of the reloading manual, just don't do it.           With that said there are powder bullet combos that work and work quite well. When I set out to do such things I found an article by Ken Waters in Handloader#203 "Loading Big Game Bullets for Deer". As far as I'm concerned Mr. Waters is a pioneer in the handloading field, having gone out and tested theories to see if they can in fact, be fact. A measure of this Mans work is the fact that we all now take for granted the things that he went out and did in the reloading field. Sometime even quoting him word for word as if we all did it by ourselves.             Because they are published already I'll give you the loads for the 300 Winchester, which can also be used for the 308 Norma. His criteria was to replicate the 300 Savage (so close to the 308 as to be one in the same). 150gr@2601fps, 180gr@2393, & 165gr@2457fps.            150 Nosler boat-tail     IMR 4895        54gr         2626fps            165 Sierra spitzer        IMR 4064        53gr         2520fps            180 Speer spitzer        IMR 4320        51gr         2442fps            180 Speer spitzer        IMR4320         52gr         2496fps If you will note the powders are in the "medium" burn rate and are used without fillers or wads. Ive personally used the 165gr load (with the Hornady bullet) on a number of whitetail deer here in Wisconsin and Michigan. Interesting to note is his 165gr load is about what I get from a 18 1/2" ruger 308. I think, make that I know, Ken succeeded on all counts when he penned that article. I've also used his data in the 338 Win mag with 225 gr bullets on deer with the same results as the 300. Good shooting but most of all have fun experimenting. CRASH87

[cbourbeau32]

Crash that is a very helpful reply. Thank you, Charlie