Author Topic: Montana Model Cannon Shot  (Read 37846 times)

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Offline Don Krag

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #120 on: February 12, 2009, 08:20:51 AM »
I'd love to come up for this. Except.....If I took off for a week to shoot cannons when my wife is at home 8 months pregnant, and with a 9 and 5 yr old boys running around, I would probably not have any cannons or shop equipment to come home to!

Take lots of pics!
Don "Krag" Halter
www.kragaxe.com

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #121 on: February 12, 2009, 11:09:22 AM »
Don, we have a good hospital here and if the kid was born here, she/he would automatically become an Montana Citizen.  ;D

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #122 on: February 12, 2009, 11:34:12 AM »
I just took a good look at the handbill for the shoot (at Practical Machinist and noticed that the date is Saturday only instead of the previously announced Sat and Sun event.  A change or an error on the handbill?  The previous handbills said Saturday {and Sunday} August 8 & 9th.  Only one day makes for a long trip for not much range time.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #123 on: February 12, 2009, 01:23:43 PM »
Yes, now one day. That is final Agenda settled on by the club

Yes it is a long ways to come for a one day.  That is why I posted all the  links to other things to do in the area.  Haven't mentioned that McGown Rifle Barrel and Montana Rifle Company are just over the hill in Kalaispell.  I might also be pursuaded to take people out and shot a few gophers. I will probably have house guests during the shoot and I am pretty sure that guest will want to partake of gopher shooting. He hasn't said for sure if he is coming. He has implied it however.

We start a 9 AM and can shoot until Sunset.  Bet we call it quites a lot long before that. 

U.S. Naval Observatory
Astronomical Applications Department


Sun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for Shelby, Toole County, Montana (longitude W111.9, latitude N48.5):

        Saturday
        8 August 2009         Mountain Daylight Time         

                         SUN
        Begin civil twilight       5:36 a.m.                 
        Sunrise                    6:12 a.m.                 
        Sun transit                1:33 p.m.                 
        Sunset                     8:53 p.m.                 
        End civil twilight         9:29 p.m.                 

                         MOON
        Moonrise                   9:22 p.m. on preceding day
        Moon transit               3:07 a.m.                 
        Moonset                    9:05 a.m.                 
        Moonrise                   9:37 p.m.                 
        Moonset                   10:13 a.m. on following day

 Phase of the Moon on 8 August:   waning gibbous with 93% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.

Full Moon on 5 August 2009 at 6:55 p.m. Mountain Daylight Time.


Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #124 on: February 12, 2009, 02:44:14 PM »
I was figuring to visit Yellowstone on the way assuming one could get into the park with a load of artillery pieces in the truck and maybe trailer.  I'll have to investigate that, and maybe some place I could store the stuff for a few days if they won't let me in with it.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #125 on: February 12, 2009, 04:33:22 PM »
Been through Yellowstone several time with guns after hunting in Wyoming.  Guns, unloaded, cased and out sight was the general rule. 

There has been some recent changes to NP rules about CCW, but I don't know what they are.

I'd call them tell them that headed to a Cannon shot in Montana and want to know the rules, ask for a buch free brochures and say thank you very much.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #126 on: February 12, 2009, 08:55:36 PM »
I've been through the park with guns out of sight also but that doesn't seem to be a practical option with a bunch of artillery pieces.  We'll have to see what they say.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2009, 12:28:52 AM »
I've been through the park with guns out of sight also but that doesn't seem to be a practical option with a bunch of artillery pieces.  We'll have to see what they say.

Just tell them "it's not an original but ONLY a replica" and that you're going to a parade in Montana!

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2009, 05:18:55 AM »
It may be"ONLY a replica" and that you're going to a parade in Montana!"; but, the NPS has been known to rain on parades. :(
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2009, 06:09:40 AM »
Last I knew muzzleloaders are not firearms .

Generally no firearms are allowed in a National Park . Ive gone over Trail Ridge Road in Estes Park many times and always had a firearm in the car or on me.

I think CCW's would be accepted , along with the responsibility of making sure it stays concealed . Better make sure your state is accepted in Montana 

It's the same ol saw ,to me anyway , laws are made because of the (LCD)lowest common denominators in society . If you look for trouble anywhere you will find it .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #130 on: February 13, 2009, 06:46:35 AM »
Here is a link to Yellowstone Park regulations http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreToKnow/ParkRegulations.aspx

Lets leave the merits or demerits of the rules out---no politics.

George I suggest you contact Yellowstone, in writing for an interpretation.  Personally I think it is a non issue. But like cannon rules get the right answer form the horses mouth--the Park Service, not the internet.

Offline Don Krag

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #131 on: February 16, 2009, 06:24:18 AM »
Hmmm...a little bit of gopher hunting, too. I did just get a reloading kit for .223 and 300 WM. I suppose if it's a boy we could name him "Montana"....and well, if it's a girl, we could name her "Montana" as well. This might work out afterall. :)

I have a friend that works for the NPS out east. I could forward him the question and see what he says about transporting artillery.
Don "Krag" Halter
www.kragaxe.com

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #132 on: February 16, 2009, 10:38:36 AM »
I suppose if it's a boy we could name him "Montana"....and well, if it's a girl, we could name her "Montana" as well. This might work out afterall. :)


Don when you run that by her, and she says who's bright idea is that, tell her Fred, Fred Flinstone.

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #133 on: February 16, 2009, 11:37:36 AM »
I keep forgetting the cannon shoot is in August.  The chances of finding any gophers to shoot will be slim.  By August most Gopher will have estivated.  We can go look however. Sorry to Mislead

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #134 on: February 16, 2009, 01:04:20 PM »
I have a friend that works for the NPS out east. I could forward him the question and see what he says about transporting artillery.

Thanks for the offer.  I have mailed a letter to Yellowstone asking for clarification of their posted policy.  We'll see what they say.  If it is anything interesting, I will post it here.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #135 on: February 16, 2009, 01:04:54 PM »
August was good this year for PD hunting in Southern S.D.

Does that mean that it's a little cooler there?

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2009, 01:48:24 PM »
Prairie Dogs are not Richardson Ground Squirrels-Gophers, they have different physiologies.  The Male gophers will start popping out late February early March and start looking for females.  Females will start coming out in late March early April. Babies then start showing them selves in mid May.  In July when it starts getting warm and dry Gophers estivate which is similiar hibernation. If the weather stays cool we should still find a few. 

Offline MikeR C

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #137 on: February 17, 2009, 05:14:36 PM »
Oh, I see now. I thot "estivated" meant "disappeared in a red mist leaving nothing but foot prints". You've obviously had a bunch of book learning to come up with that estivated thing  ;D

MikeR C

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #138 on: February 17, 2009, 06:03:30 PM »
I did a magazine article some years ago on the Belding Ground Squirrel.  While doing the research for the article I came across the word and had to look it up.

Red Mist is the same as reseeding. I reseed a lot. 




Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #139 on: February 25, 2009, 04:02:32 PM »
Here's a Google map of the range.  The range doesn't look like this any more, and won't look like it does now when we shoot.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.680555,-112.232294&spn=0.003613,0.009613&t=h&z=17

I just had to make a post, it was up to 2999 views and I had to roll it over.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #140 on: February 25, 2009, 06:09:10 PM »
     
Here's a Google map of the range.  The range doesn't look like this any more, and won't look like it does now when we shoot.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.680555,-112.232294&spn=0.003613,0.009613&t=h&z=17

     Double D,   Thanks for posting that map link.  Mike and I pore over many maps before we travel.  Is there a simple way that you could show us what the range looks like now and will look like in August compared to what it looks like in this satellite link?  Will the changes be expansion or just re-arrangement?  How far is it to that jog in the road really?  Looks like approx. 2,000 yds. with 1,760 being a mile.  Are the firing lanes just the two on the lower end or what? 

     Thanks, without knowing the topography, we never would have found the commanding artillery position in Boston, Mass. on Dorchester Heights armed with Henry Knox's cannon from Ft. Ticonderoga which forced the British to evacuate the entire Boston area during the Revolutionary war.  A huge logo on map our covered a large area including where the heights should have been, so we saw a hill about 6 miles away and headed for it and went round and round till we reached the top and there was the monument with cannon balls.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #141 on: February 25, 2009, 08:28:05 PM »
Changing the map scale so the jog shows and dragging the vertical dirt road to the beginning of the scale at the bottom left leads me to believe the first jog is about 850 yds (2550 ft) and the second jog is about 1850 to 1900 yds.

Where is the firing line and what direction is down range?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #142 on: February 26, 2009, 06:13:06 AM »
First guys this isn't instructions on how the find the range.  Those will come. I can't get there right now, snow is too deep.  When the snow melts and the mud dries I will go get odometer and GPS coordinates, for those traveling by those means.  Beside that,  the route will be well marked when you get here. 

This is Montana and directions are less complicated than in the big city....you know..."go to the end of the road and turn left"...not "go to 38th light past the McDonalds at 201 off ramp"

Here is a better map from Mapquest http://www.mapquest.com/mq/8-480R_cVK

If you must have directions now to the range. Using the link above look in the upper left corner of the map that comes up, next to the scale.  You will see E. Main and W. Main.  Move your cursor to that location, hold the left mouse button down and drag that section of the map to the center of your screen.  Going of North east from this intersection is Centre Ave.  Move your cursor up Centre Ave to the Centre Ave near the top of the map, left Click and drag it down to the center of your screen. You will notice that the street name changes to Santa Rita N. Keep dragging on the name Santa Rita N following the highway north out of town until you find the intersection of Olson Rd-Lahr Rd and Santa Rita N. It's about 5 Santa Rita N name drags. 

When you find the Olson Rd/Lahar Rd click and drag Lahr Rd to the left seven times until you come to the end of the road.  The north-south road is Meadowbrook Rd but you may not see the name.  Drag the road down going north until you come to the first and un named intersection. The road going off to the right from this un named intersection is the road to the range. From this intersection if you look to your right-east you will see an old abandoned homestead about a mile away, that is the range. Follow this road until you get to the range.



This is the current configuration of the range.  Rifle range on left Pistol Range on right.

The Rifle range is 100 yards and fairly level. We shoot North to South.  Unfortunately when shooting from the intended firng line at tthe north end you can't see the 200 or 300 yard line.  The range at the  south end 100 yard line drops of sharply to the old creek bottom.  Because of this the effective firing line with shooting benches has been set up on the 100 yard line.

In the picture you can see the access road going south from the rifle range to two targets lines one at 170 yards and one at 300 yards from the intended firing line.  Beyond the 300 yard target the ground slopes back up and the bald spot near the top is 600 yards.

The work they want to do is cut down the 100 yard range so it slopes enough so the 200/300 yard targets can be seen from the intended firing line.  All the work to be done must be confined to with in the 100 yard range as the ground beyond is CRP land and can not be worked. http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/CRP/

I don't have a clue what the range will look like in August. It will be dry and dusty and all our shooting will be down from the north end across the bare 100 yard range.  This will minimize fire danger.


Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #143 on: February 26, 2009, 09:16:12 AM »
So the answer is that the zigs in Hope Road are not downrange and therefore there is no problem with vehicles being in the impact zone.

I have finally heard from Yellowstone Park regarding entering the park with a load of muzzle loading artillery in the vehicle.  Essentially, there cannot be any exposed pieces (offends sensitive eyes, I guess) so anything on an open trailer would have to be tarped.  Powder and shot must be in a separate compartment from the pieces.  Something of a pain but not impossible to comply with.  Now I have to decide if the experience is worth 2700 miles on the road.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #144 on: February 26, 2009, 10:09:06 AM »
Hope Road?  Hope Road I think is actually the road that goes out to the range when you turn off MeadowBrook Rd..

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #145 on: February 26, 2009, 01:25:39 PM »
Hope Road?  Hope Road I think is actually the road that goes out to the range when you turn off MeadowBrook Rd.

That appears to be the case.  That is the name on the google maps satellite image your posted above (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.680555,-112.232294&spn=0.003613,0.009613&t=h&z=17).
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #146 on: February 26, 2009, 02:05:37 PM »
Must be a county easement...Next time I go out to the range, I'll have to see if there is a road that goes west of Meadowbrook. Might be a farmers two track.

George, all I can say about making a 2700 mile trip...we'd like to see you.

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #147 on: March 11, 2009, 07:33:34 AM »
At last nights Gun Club meeting they discussed the annual club raffle.  Every year the club buys a rifle and raffles it off.  The proceeds then go in to the club property acquisition fund.  The hope is that some day they will be able to either by the property the club currently leases or andother piece of property elsewhere.

This reminded my of something I had in mind during the initial planning for this event. 

A bucket shoot. A 5 gallon bucket is placed down range at an unknown long range. You pay a fee, say $5 for 5 shoots to shot at the bucket. The $5 goes in a pot. The first person to hit the bucket on the fly splits the pot with the club.  Additional shots can be taken at taken at a buck a shot.  At the end of the day, the pot goes in club property acquisition fund. 

Discussion?


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #148 on: March 11, 2009, 07:50:31 AM »
     This idea is always popular, DD.  I've seen the same or very similar "Split-the-Pot-Shoots" in Wyoming, Colorado, Louisiana and New York.
As long as luck plays a major role in this type of shoot, you will have participants.  Mortars only is usually seen to be much more fair.

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Montana Model Cannon Shot
« Reply #149 on: March 11, 2009, 09:08:17 AM »
I actually thought about two shoots. Mortars some where between 200 and 300 yards and the mortar ball has to go inside the bucket.  Since we are dealing with scale mortars this could be pretty challenging. Of course Monstor Mortar would have to squish the bucket.

For cannons the bucket would be some where between 300 and 400 yards.   Just hit the bucket. Again a good challenge with scale guns.

And if those distances are too easy, the next year we move the buckets further out.