Author Topic: I finally gave in and sold it! (Read 2605 times)

Dee · « **on:** December 20, 2008, 01:11:53 PM »

I have always said that anyone whom wants to carry a 1911 Government Model should be willing to train regularly with one. Cocked and locked is the most practical way to carry for L.E. and self defense. I used one back in June of 1978 on a couple of guys bent on making my wife a widow, and it worked rather well.
BUT! After retiring 14 years ago, I have found myself less and less willing to train and practice, and although my marksmanship has not really suffered, my auto-reflex with the 1911 in dealing with the safeties ect. has.
SO! After forgetting to dis-engage the safety TWICE while qualifying for my concealed carry renewal, I realized that, thru experience, in the real world this could have gotten me killed.
I was a Glock armorer during my 20 years, an instructor in tactical and have carried the Glock 21, and 23.
Today I sold my custom 1911, and bought a new Glock 21 with night sights. Same damn ugly-ass gun. Same ole accuracy, same ole excellent point ability, and same ole dependability.
I am just as well armed I think, with 5 extra tries in the mag. Hmmmmmm

Savage · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2008, 01:57:19 PM »

Carried a mdl21 for a few years as a duty weapon. Hard to argue the advantage of a 40 rd duty load with the 21 vs the 25 rd duty load carried with the 1911. I carried a 1911 in class "A" dress, but always the 21 in a working uniform. The 21 was my least favorite Glock, and now rides in the holster of a friend. My only Glock .45 now days is a mdl 36, but have a couple more in 9mm and .40. I even use my Glocks for my game guns these days. Every now and then I break out one of my 1911s or Hi Powers for a match, but that's becoming a rare occurrence. What can I say? The Glocks just keep on running even when neglected. Any or all parts can be replaced in a matter of minutes and are plentiful and cheap. Guess I'm getting old and lazy.
Savage

Dee · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:42:11 PM »

I guess my favorite was the Glock 23 in feel and shootability. I carried one until I retired. It carried good in uniform, and plain cloths, and was a good tactical pistol also. The 40 s&w is a good round in 180. Or was it 185. Lord I'm gettin old.
The 21 was my choice because I believe in the 45acp. It isn't any harder for me to hide inside the waist band than a 1911, and it shoots every time you pull the trigger. It doesn't hurt to have several thousand rounds and a Dillon either.

Simplicity at it's best I must admit.

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2008, 07:37:36 AM »

I always thought the 19/23 were the best of both worlds in shootability and carryability. The seem to balance and point better for me than the 17/22. I carry the 36 for all the same reasons-------------plus it fits my mdl 19 holsters.
Savage

Cottonwood · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2008, 03:14:54 AM »

Dee, I'm with you on this one.... I have had 1911's in the past, I also bare the marks from getting beavertail spur digs while ridding etc... I flat out hate the sharp edges of a 1911 and do not wish to expend alot of money to make it friendly. When I carried the Glock 22 for duty loved the simplisity of it flat out a good working duty gun with no frills.

I am currently thinking though along getting the G20 with the extra 6" after market barrel for it or even the G20L version.

I still think the Glock is a total winner.

Dee · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2008, 06:39:38 AM »

Quote from: The Montanan on December 23, 2008, 03:14:54 AM

Dee, I'm with you on this one.... I have had 1911's in the past, I also bare the marks from getting beavertail spur digs while ridding etc... I flat out hate the sharp edges of a 1911 and do not wish to expend alot of money to make it friendly. When I carried the Glock 22 for duty loved the simplisity of it flat out a good working duty gun with no frills.

I am currently thinking though along getting the G20 with the extra 6" after market barrel for it or even the G20L version.

I still think the Glock is a total winner.

Never had the digging problems, or the sharp edges, but the 1911 is a thinking man's gun, and although it has proven to me to be a good fighter, I am no longer willing at this time in my life to shoot one as much as one should to stay familiar with the intricacies of being fight ready with it.
The Glock 21 was the obvious answer. I know exactly how it works, and it points well, and works every time with major caliber to boot.

Savage · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2008, 03:59:34 PM »

I haven't found the manual of arms for the 1911 to require any more training or discipline than the Glocks. I use virtually the same high grip on both platforms. My strong hand thumb rides the safety, automatically disengaging it on the draw. The only reasons I carried the Glock over the 1911 were capacity and absolute reliability under adverse conditions.
Savage

Keith L · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2008, 04:11:50 PM »

I will have a 1911 again some day. For a duty or carry weapon I will take a Glock any day. I really like my G19. But a well tuned 1911 is a sweet shooter. I currently have a S&W 4506 that I like, but for a great trigger nothing beats a good 1911.

Dee · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2008, 04:20:48 PM »

Quote from: Savage on December 23, 2008, 03:59:34 PM

I haven't found the manual of arms for the 1911 to require any more training or discipline than the Glocks. I use virtually the same high grip on both platforms. My strong hand thumb rides the safety, automatically disengaging it on the draw. The only reasons I carried the Glock over the 1911 were capacity and absolute reliability under adverse conditions.
Savage

That thumb safety is the key Savage. I used to tell my trainees: You WILL practice what you preach, meaning what ever you train to do, is what you WILL do under stress, IF the intestinal fortitude is there. Been there done that. However, if you don't shoot regularly your AUTO RESPONSES dull, and things like a thumb safety can bite you in the butt, at a very inopportune moment. I too use virtually the same high grip on both platforms. As an instructor for 19 years I have fired quite literally thousands of rounds thru the 1911. Sometimes over a thousand rounds a DAY, during tactical training. But if you stop practicing YOU WILL HAVE LAPSES OF AUTO RESPONSE REFLEXES. That is just a fact of life.
My instincts are still sharp, my tactical reasoning is still intact, however it sometimes is the little things that get you. I no longer have the desire to practice regularly, which keep the AUTO RESPONSE REFLEXES sharp. Just like golf, muscle memory is important, and as I said. The 1911 is a thinking man's gun. Love'm and always have. Built a bunch of em. But, the Glock lets me be lazy, and still ready for an unexpected fight.
Magazine capacity is not that important to me. If it ain't over in 6 or 7 rounds, what I'm doing ain't working and I need to spend more time thinking about how to leave.

Savage · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2008, 04:43:00 PM »

Yep, I know about lazy! One of the reasons I don't shoot or carry one of my 1911s more that I do, is due to the fact that I don't like cleaning them, and hate to ding such a nice looking pistol. In the near 50 yrs I've been carrying and shooting 1911s I've developed quite a fondness for them. With the game Glocks I shoot, I just toss them back in the safe till I need them again. About once a month or (2-4) matches I detail strip, clean, inspect, and lube and they are always ready to go. Never had one to rust, and not concerned about a few dings. For a CCW I don't think mag capacity is all that important either, but in a duty gun with backup 30 minutes away, the extra capacity is mighty comforting.
Savage

Dee · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2008, 04:56:23 PM »

Before I retired I had a magazine pouch strip made at a saddle shop, and screwed it into my drivers door just above and forward of the arm rest. Five pouches had a 45 magazine, and two pouches contained a 30 round AR15 magazine each. They were cut down just like a gun belt pouch for easy access. Paranoia does that to you when you know backup may or may not get there. That was another time back in the seventies and early eighties along the Red River bottoms on the Texas-Oklahoma border. But, I have not worried about that in almost 14 years now. I do not miss it. I miss the river, but not the people that plied their trade in the thickets.
The car dealer that we ordered cars from used to laugh that he could always tell which trade in was mine. None of the interior light door buttons worked, they all had brush tracks in the paint, and there were screw holes in the upholstery on the drivers door.

Savage · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2008, 04:10:32 AM »

I'm not paranoid either,

well, maybe a little. I call it being prepared. Kept my AR handy with about 90 rds-JIC. Not to mention the two 1911 10 rd mags I kept in the driver's door.
Savage

buckweet · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2009, 10:19:35 AM »

Quote from: Savage on December 24, 2008, 04:10:32 AM

I'm not paranoid either, well, maybe a little. I call it being prepared. Kept my AR handy with about 90 rds-JIC. Not to mention the two 1911 10 rd mags I kept in the driver's door.
Savage

paranoid ? no.... i keep my glock 17L close, i need it for the few steps to get to my AR. ....
yes i understand...

weet

myronman3 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:06:49 AM »

i love the 1911. but there is no question that the glock can be draw and fired faster than the 1911; and the glock beats the 1911 on capacity as well. if i was going into combat and could choose my weapons, you can bet it would be a glock in my holster.

Savage · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:28:39 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on March 25, 2009, 05:06:49 AM

i love the 1911. but there is no question that the glock can be draw and fired faster than the 1911; and the glock beats the 1911 on capacity as well. if i was going into combat and could choose my weapons, you can bet it would be a glock in my holster.

In my experience and observations, the 1911 is as fast to the first shot as any autoloader for anyone familar with the platform. The safety is disengaged long before the muzzle comes on target. The ability to get the first shot on target quickly is more a function of the operator than the pistol. I am a fan of both platforms, but if I had to go to battle today, I'd choose the Glock.
Savage

Skunk · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:38:02 AM »

I'm not much of an auto guy, but after reading Dee's and Myronman's praise, I looked hard on the Glock website and figured if I ever buy an auto, it would probably be a Glock.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:02:06 AM »

I hate this talk , I love the 1911 . Got a Golck 20 ( a cost thing ) then after a few years later got a Colt Delta Gold Cup . had to have it . And for the same reason i still carry the Glock more .

myronman3 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2009, 04:51:07 AM »

i disagree, savage. the safety on a 1911 is just one more process an operator has to worry about on the way from the holster to the target. i love the 1911 as much as anyone, and will be keeping mine until it is passed to the kids.
one of the first laws of combat is k.i.s.s..

Savage · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2009, 05:07:10 AM »

My time to the first shot on target is about the same with a Glock or a 1911. With a slight edge going to the 1911 due to ergonomics. The majority of USPSA shooters find this true as well, and will do most anything to shave a few hundreds of a second off their presentation. I'm sure most would switch to another platform if it were faster. Contrary to modern thinking, I don't find the manipulation of the safety to be a handicap either. Training and proper practice are the key.
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2009, 02:47:53 AM »

savage , yep ! but most don't have the place or the time to keep up the skill level . i shot once or twice a week for years but due to work that is not the case anymore . I carry a da revolver most of the time and a Glock or such is eaiser to switch to when a larger gun is desired . I was going to have a 460 rowland built but with out time for pratice ( and cash flow ) it will wait . Also for the less praticed the other action types may be better than sa under stress .

Savage · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:22:13 AM »

shootall,
Yep, you're right. Few practice as much as they should, me included. Most of my practice nowdays is IDPA and Steel matches, about 4-5 a month. I change it up a bit and go from a Sig/CZ/ Glock for most of my matches. Every now and then I break out one of my 1911s. I'm not fast these days with anything, but I can lay off the 1911s for a few months and go back to them without forgeting how to operate them. Don't know what's happening to us, but to listen to the writers and trainers, you'd think there was something really difficult about being able to operate a gun with a safety, or cock a hammer. God forbid someone dare to lower a hammer on a live round without a decocker!! Thank goodness I grew up in a time when these feats were not only possible, but common!!!
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:31:14 AM »

i think its called the dumbing down of America , for me its age , i just like things easy now . the trade off is with a safety if someone gets your gun they may not know how to release the safety to fire it ,

Savage · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:02:37 PM »

Most of the time, my carry guns are "Point & Click". Not because of lack of a manual safety, but because of light weight, reliability, capacity, and ease of maintenance. That's reason enough for me!
Savage

S.S. · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2009, 02:37:54 PM »

You will one day think to yourself.... "I wish my foot would reach my butt"......
I would sell mine to take care of my family but that is about the only reason!

Dee · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2009, 08:21:14 AM »

Quote from: Savage on March 28, 2009, 05:07:10 AM

My time to the first shot on target is about the same with a Glock or a 1911. With a slight edge going to the 1911 due to ergonomics. The majority of USPSA shooters find this true as well, and will do most anything to shave a few hundreds of a second off their presentation. I'm sure most would switch to another platform if it were faster. Contrary to modern thinking, I don't find the manipulation of the safety to be a handicap either. Training and proper practice are the key.
Savage

Everything said in your post is true Savage. But the crux of the thread when I started it was: I am getting old and don't WANT to train and practice as much as I used to, or need to, involving AUTO RESPONSES AND REFLEXES in regards to the EXTRA requirements of getting the 1911 into immediate operation. You can prove this by taking anyone whom is very competent with an auto loader of a different design, and give him the 1911. He WILL STUTTER with his response in regards to such things as thumb safeties present on the 1911, along with other issues until he gets used to it. If he stops training with it, he will once again begin to stutter in his operating techs.
It is not to knock the 1911. I have built, shot, and trained others to win fights with the 1911. On June 19th, 1978, I used a lightweight Commander that I had customized against TWO opponents and won the fight decisively. But, I don't want to stay that familiar with the design anymore. I am old, grouchy, and lazy. However, I can and will, still fight if necessary.

Savage · « **Reply #25 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:46:17 PM »

Everything said in your post is true Savage. But the crux of the thread when I started it was: I am getting old and don't WANT to train and practice as much as I used to, or need to, involving AUTO RESPONSES AND REFLEXES in regards to the EXTRA requirements of getting the 1911 into immediate operation. You can prove this by taking anyone whom is very competent with an auto loader of a different design, and give him the 1911. He WILL STUTTER with his response in regards to such things as thumb safeties present on the 1911, along with other issues until he gets used to it. If he stops training with it, he will once again begin to stutter in his operating techs.
It is not to knock the 1911. I have built, shot, and trained others to win fights with the 1911. On June 19th, 1978, I used a lightweight Commander that I had customized against TWO opponents and won the fight decisively. But, I don't want to stay that familiar with the design anymore. I am old, grouchy, and lazy. However, I can and will, still fight if necessary.
[/quote]

Understand where you're coming form Dee. I have no desire to train these days, heck I don't even practice! I do shoot 2-3 action pistol matches a month at minimum. I use mostly Glocks or CZs, but guess I use one of the 1911s enough to keep as proficient as I need to be these days. I seem to find myself carrying the "point and click" variety for everyday wear. Yep, I'm a victim of age and attitude!
Savage

Dee · « **Reply #26 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:36:10 AM »

The race guns will likely always be off the 1911 platform due to lock up time, sear set time, and trigger travel. But then again, I ain't racin anymore. I'm rockin! On the porch!