Good gun for new hunter

[broken arrow]

My son is taking the Hunter safety course required by our state wildlife agency and this will be his first year in the deer woods. I want to hear some of your ideas on getting him started. I am considering a remington 870 20 ga. youth deer gun. That way he can hunt deer and squirrel etc.. with the same gun. Any drawbacks to this idea? Should I just go ahead and buy him a bolt action rifle? What caliber? How about tree stand hunting? I was thinking more along the lines of a ground blind for now. Does anyone have any suggestions for boots and clothing? I know the only way he'll like hunting is if he's warm, dry, and sees deer. I want him to love it as much as I do. Considering the fact that I went from freezing my nuggets off on a stump the first time I hunted to being warm and toasty in a tree lounge in 8 degree snow, There have to be plenty of options.   Thanks in advance!     BA

[Graybeard]

You don't say where you are located or if you are hunting private land or public and if private do you own it or are you in well enough with owner to make permanent stands vs. temporary stands. Or how old or big your son is. All of these things play into giving intelligent advice.

Unless your state requires shotguns for deer which from your comments I think it doesn't I'd sure not start him out with that handicap. There are some really fine choices in slugs for 20 ga. guns now. Maybe even better than the 12 ga. offerings. But they require a rifled barrel and that means a separate barrel for squirrels.

I'd get him a rifle for deer. Caliber? Again I don't know how big he is and whether he needs a cut down stock or how much if any recoil he's used to. If you haven't brought him up shooting a rimfire already I personally think you are jumping the gun to be discussing deer hunting. Not everyone agrees with my stance on this but I don't think a new hunter should begin on deer until they have become a good hunter on small game. Squirrel hunting is one of the best to teach a person how to hunt deer.

Dunno how old he is or how well coordinated he is so can't say if I'd recommend a tree stand or not. They are dangerous and not everyone should go up in one. Ground blinds are safer in that ya don't fall out. But it puts him at ground level where he could be in danger of shots from others if there are many others using the area. Also puts him where a careless shot could get another more easily than a downward shot from a treestand. I don't know his training level or the area you hunt. Can't help wihtout more info.

I started my boys and wife out squirrel hunting. I taught all how to shoot a rimfire rifle well before they ever touched a centerfire. Taught them how to shoot a shotgun well also. Then and only then when I feld they were proficient in the safe handling of the rifles and had hunting experience with squirrels did I take them to the deer woods. We stayed on the ground and I stayed with them until I was sure it was OK to leave them alone. Even then I was never out of hearing of them until they were well experience hunters in their own right.

GB

[TScottO]

Hello broken arrow,

I started out when I was 4 years old with a Daisy RedRidder, still have it to this day. Along the way I made every squirrel hunting trip with my dad and shot the squirrels again in the head with my RedRidder after they were on the ground. I was also his bird dog while dove hunting and performing that fatal killing show when the dove were down.

When I was 6 I started squirrel hunting with a 410 Long-tom. The durn thing was longer than I was tall. My dad had to help me prop the thing on a tree to shoot. At 7 years old I got a Jr model Stevens 22 single shot that had the cocking lug on the back of the bolt. My dad had to make a jig for me out of a coat hanger, kind of like a bow release, so that I could cock the thing. At 8 years of age I got an H&R 20 gauge crack barrel 3” magnum that I squirrel, dove and deer hunted with. By the time I was 9 years old I was squirrel hunting alone on our family land and dove hunting a short distance away from my father.

My first year deer hunting I was 12 years old and started off with a 7.7 Jap military rifle with peep sights that my grandfather picked up sometime during his 15 years of picking for antiques. Then for Christmas when I was 13 years old I got a Remington 700 BDL and used this gun exclusively until I was 22. The 270 really kicked like a mule but I didn’t think it was any tougher than the 3” magnum crack barrel.

This was a short form run down of my growth as a hunter and progression with firearms. We didn’t have a lot of money but my dad did his best to keep me in a suitable gun for the game that we hunted. Some people may think those are young ages to be hunting and fooling with guns but it’s just part of the culture when being raised in Southern Mississippi. I’m 29 years old at the present time and personally don’t think my dad could have done a better job at starting me off hunting and enjoying firearms.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

[Ron T.]

Broken Arrow…

You’ve just gotten some excellent input.  I recommend you re-read it and give some thought to the advice and information offered.

A beautiful story, Scott.

Like Graybeard, I started my two sons off on small game… first letting them walk along with me while I hunted.  Later, when they were about 10, I bought a 28 gauge over/under and cut down the stock, added a good recoil pad and handloaded some light 28 gauge loads for them to use.  Now my eldest Grandson, the son of my youngest (by a year) son, is getting ready to use the cut-down 28 gauge for small game this upcoming rabbit & pheasant season when he goes hunting with his Dad.

Today, my two sons are both avid hunters who love the woods and respect the game they hunt.  And the dream I had when they were small has come true.  I always hoped the three of us,  my two sons and me, would be able to hunt deer together and it’s happened for the past two years now.

Together with my two sons, my Godson, his Dad and my best hunting partner who lives north of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and has a hunting cabin in the Moshannon State Forest in north/central Pennsylvania, north of I-80 about half way between DuBois and Clearfield, we all meet at my hunting buddy’s cabin situated among the mountain laurel on the High Plateau and open the Pennsylvania Buck Season together at the crack of dawn on the Monday after Thanksgiving.

We’re a close-knit group of good hunters and ethical, careful men.  The camaraderie radiating from everyone there is fantastic and make for a fine deer camp.  This is the “stuff “ of which wonderful memories have been and will be made… a week-long event to which I look forward all year long.  


Good Hunting...

Ron T.

[huntsman]

Broken Arrow,

I would suggest also looking at many of the posts on Youth Hunting and Shooting further down on this forum. Many of the issues you are dealing with have been discussed there, some in great detail.

My daughter is going to be hunting with me this year for the first time. She is shooting a Kimber-customized Swedish mauser in 6.5x55 and has done very well (qualified with 3 shots in a 6" circle at 50 yards). This gun has a lot less recoil than many of the heftier deer guns, in a very lightweight, easy-handling package. With the 6.5 she will still have plenty of gun for when she gets older, too.

If you lean toward the rifle option: In the more common American calibers, the 7mm-08 has been highly praised for its relatively low recoil, great performance on game, and accuracy. It would be my choice for a beginner's rifle caliber if I couldn't or didn't want to go with the Swede. .257 Roberts (kinda uncommon), .25-.06, .260 Remington (rare and rather expensive) are all good starter calibers in my opinion. I'll qualify this by saying I prefer bolt-action guns in calibers with good ballistic qualities (flatter trajectories and higher downrange energy retention).

Good luck to you and your son hunting this year. I can't wait for Nov.1!  

[broken arrow]

Thanks for all of the good advice thus far. To sum-up our situation, my son is 14 years old, abot 5'6" (a little short for his age I guess) and he is well versed on the basics of shooting. He has been brought up in the country on and around his grandfather's 380 acre farm. He only recently expressed what I would call a real desire to hunt, so I enrolled him in the Hunter's safety course. Last night we put a nice set of insulated overalls and a parka on lay-a-way for him at Wally-World. I do not feel he is ready for a tree stand or to hunt alone yet. It is my intention that he be with me this full season. As a veteran S.W.A.T. sniper I can teach him everything he needs to know about gun handling, safety and marksmanship with rifle or a shotgun. What I can't teach him are the lessons we all have to learn ourselves. I just plan to be there for him.
I will exlore the option of buying him a rifle versus a shotgun. He has only fired extensively with small-bore stuff, This will be new to him. I like the idea of cutting his teeth on small game, we will ,perhaps indulge ourselves in squirrel hunting and I will take him to the annual dove shoot.
Thanks again, This forum seems to have a good many quality hunters with high hunting ethics and I appreciate that.

[Graybeard]

With the additional information you have now provided I'd say it is safe to assume he should be able to handle a full size rifle without having to have it cut down. Maybe if you get too much warm clothes on him he'll have a problem with it but otherwise he should do fine.

Sounds like he has been shooting already with smaller bores so again he should be ready for the next step in the caliber scale. If better ammo was available and more rifles chambered to it I'd think the .260 Rem or 6.5x55 would be ideally suited for him. I hesitate tho as the rifles are few and loaded ammo selction poor. I'm not a fan of the .243 Win. for deer. Maybe a .25 but again selection is limited. So I generally say go with the 7-08. If you want him to practice with it a good bit use a good pad for his shoulder and/or load light for him.

I started my wife off using 100 grain bullets I loaded to about same velocity as factory 140s and limited her number of shots in practice plus put a good pad on the shortened stock for her Rem. Mod. 7 in 7-08. When hunting they will not notice the recoil so full 140 grain loads are fine.

GB

[PA-Joe]

My two children where on the smaller size and they didn't like the recoil of a shotgun. I got them a Rem Model 7 Youth in 7mm08 and that fix that. The Model 7s have a shorter length of pull and as they grow you can get a full size replacement stock. Get a good pair of insulated boots to keep their feet warm and don't expect to stay out all day or to walk too far the first few years. If they get too cold then they will not want to go out again. I also found it easier to play pack mule. One gun and I carried the warm clothing, food and hot drinks. Check your hunting codes too in PA you must stay with the child so that may rule out a tree stand for the first few years, unless you are going to put yours up in the same tree.

Regarding the boots, I was able to get some surplus mickey mouse army boots. Big rubber winter boots. We couldn't walk too far but never had cold feet.

[SAWgunner]

I started out with a New England Firearms break action 20 Guage and a Ruger M77MkII in .243 Win.  I still love these guns to this day, even with all the Oooohhh & Ahhhhh weapons I have bought over the years.  Get them something that isn't too expensive, but they will be proud of.  To this day out of all of my guns, the little NEF 20 guage (the cheapest gun I own, but it is still in excellent condition) and my .243 would never be sold no matter what.  Hope this helps.

SSG G.

[broken arrow]

I will look into the 7mm 08 rem. I agree with Greybeard on the .243. We looked at the NEF .243/20ga. youth combo and I really liked it, but the .243 is a bit small in my opinion.
      I picked him up some cordura/camo boots at Wal-Mart last night. They are waterproof and have thinsulate. They set me back a whopping $20.00! I generally pay over $100.00 for my boots. I doubt these would hold up to my abuse, but for his purposes....perfect.
      Last night in his Hunter ed. course they covered the different calibers and actions. This is nice because it gives him more of an input. I think we'll end up doing fine. I had him read a post on ethics, that has helped a great deal as he can gleen from everyone elses experiences and learn from others mistakes.
       Thanks again!

[Cabin4]

Broken Arrow,

They also make some good quality wool socks with the a pouch on top of the toe section. In this pouch they have the chemical heat pads that fit in it.

These really work well when it gets cold. I have these for my son and I. They cam in real handy last year when on opening day it was 5 degrees. They also have the same thing for gloves but I don't use them. We do have the chemical heat pads and you can jst hold those in your glove. What I like to do is use the hand muffs. I got these for duck hunting and they work great. I don't wear any gloves at all when sitting. I just put my hands in the muff and if its real cold I throw a chem heat pack in them. Works great for both deer and duck or any still hunting.

[brotherinlaw]

My son is 14 and has been hunting for about 4 years. He took the hunter safety course as do all of the kids of my club's members. The kids are only allowed to hunt out of box stands with an adult. The stands are about 10 -12 feet off of the ground and located along long clear cuts and pipe lines which cross the property. We build them out of scrap lumber and old roofing material or sheet metal for less than $100. The stands are covered and we sound proof with old carpeting and are overall quite cozey for a kid. All shots are at a down angle providing an extra degree of safety. Obviously we are on private property. My son used to  shoot a Remington 700 youth model in .243 cal. He is extremely accurate. The problem is that now he wants to shoot MY rifles. Oh well, it's worth it to spend quality time. He even listens to country music when he friends aren't around.

[longwinters]

It is great to be able to hunt with our children.  We dont talk much while hunting but it is a good time. Until they are 16 (in Mich.) they have to be close to an adult.  So we sit in the same ground blind and take turns snoozing and watching:lol: . One of my boys started with a 243 Tikka (Then moved to the 06), while the other went with the Remington 700LS 7M-08.  I really like the 243 but feel more comfortable with the 7M-08.  Even though he is only using a 120 gn bullet, it just gives me a little more confidence if something odd happens at the shot.  The 243 always put them down without a problem but the 7m-08 will do it with a smidge more umph.  

long

[grizzy57]

Broken Arrow,
IF!! You can find one buy your SON a Remington 257 Roberts Mountain Rifle
easy to cary, comes up nice,light, and is a great deer caliber. can also be downloaded for turkeys and varmit hunting.
                                    GRIZZY :lol:

[Lone Wolf]

I would suggest a Rem Mod 7 in .243 - very good deer rifle, have trained both of my kids on them, and then a Rem 1100 or 870 for a shotgun.

[razmuz]

The 7M-08 is a great caliber and works especially well with short barrels.  However, if I was just starting I think I'd go for the Rem. Model 7 in 260.  If you want something that will increase in value get a good rifle in 257 Roberts.  Also, the 6.5X55 is a catching on in the USA.

[BH]

broken arrow,

Although there has been a lot of talk about rifles here, the posts you have made indicate to me you are still considering a shotgun.  Please take GB's earlier advice and forget the shotgun unless you are forced to use one.  I've spent the better part of 35 years trying to make shotguns shoot like rifles and I'm here to tell you I haven't succeded yet and I've spent a lot of money trying.  To be sure, there have been major advances in shotgun performance, but a rifle they are not.

Ofcourse accuracy is one limitation of the shotgun but what is more insidiuos is their effective range limitations due to trajectory and this becomes even more important with a young hunter who is not experienced with estimating range (heck, I still have problems with it).  When that big buck rolls up over that ridge and stops at 225 yards broadside and looks like he's at most 70 yards out, do you want your son carrying a shotgun zeroed at 100yards or one of the mid-6 or 7mm  rounds mentioned earlier zeroed at 200 yards.  I know there is no excuse for poor shot selection considering the gun you're using but I have been very surprised at how far I have missjudged range more than once, especially in flat open ground.

Get the boy a good rifle!

Bob