Marlin 1895 Cowboy 357 mag. load help

[Ray Cover]

I am trying to come up with a good load for this gun in 357 mag. and 38 spec.

I have tried several things out of my Hornady, Speer, and Sierra manuals from the 357 mag rifle section.  The only powders I had on hand that had data in those sections of the manuals are H110, 2400, and Unique.

Bullets I have tried so far are
140 gr Lee SWC cast lead using #2 Lyman formula sized to exactly .357" dia 
125 gr Hornady XTP
Store bought lead Sutter's Choice hard cast bullets 158 gr RNFP .358" dia

So far I have not found anything that has worked in this gun using these components in either the 38 cases or the 357 cases. Well... they work but I am getting 6" groups at 50 yards.

I suspect I may need either:
Heavier jacketed bullets
Harder cast bullets (maybe cast from pure linotype)

I also suspect I need a slower burning powder than I currently have.  I am used to loading for pistols and the powders I have are mostly fast burning pistol powders.

Before I go out and spend a ton of money on components I thought I would ask you folks to find out what loads some of you have found that shoot accurately in your Marlin cowboy guns.  I would like to find a good 357 and a good 38 load for this gun.  If I can't make is shoot any better than 6" at 50 I will be selling it.

Any advise will be appreciated,

Ray

[Chris Potts]

I shoot a 180 gr gascheck bullet that I cast.  They are sized .360.  With a stout load of H110, it will consistently put five shots under 1.5" with open sights at 50 yrds.  I would say that is about average with that load.  I'll get a few where I pull a shot and open the group a little and a few when I pull the shots toward the bull and I end up with a truly impressive group.  I would start with heavier bullet, 158 and up.  If your going to be using cast I would size .359 or .360.  If shooting full power loads with cast I would get a mold for a gascheck bullet.  My lite load is the same bullet sans gascheck over trailboss.  It shoots to the same point of aim and almost as accurately.

Chris

[Ray Cover]

Thanks Chris,

What lead alloy are you using to cast your bullets?

Ray

[Chris Potts]

water quenched wheel weights.

[bilmac]

Man, I have shot all kinds of stuff through my Marlin and haven't found anything that shoots that bad. Try this if you don't already. Try holding the rifle as if you were shooting it off hand, and then rest your front hand on a sandbag instead of just laying the rifle directly on the bag.

I see you had another thread asking for help choosing a cast bullet. One thing to think about is that SWC bullets will hang up just a little bit on feeding occasionally. If you will want to use the rifle for cowboy shooting you won't want to have that annoyance.

[Ray Cover]

Ya I probably shot two dozen test loads today and was very disappointed.

I don't intend to shoot it with a scope but I put a scope on it for load development and use the sandbags on the bench like I would a bolt action rifle.   I came home kinda bummed out and figured I better get some help from someone who's already been there done that.

Ray

[bilmac]

That's about what I do with mine. Sometimes it wears a scope, most of the time it has a Williams receiver. I had to put a ramp front sight on to use the receiver.

Let me know if holding the rifle while shooting off the bench helps. I recommended this to another unhappy carbine shooter and so far don't know if this helps other shooters. I read an article once and the way they explained it is that these light carbines that shoot heavy slow moving bullets tend to move around on the bags a lot as they are shot, and holding the forearm tames that.

[Mikey]

Ray - Marlin is known for its oversized bores.  I have a brother in law with one of their 1895s in 41 magnum and the bore is sized out to .413, as are his cast slugs.  I have known Marlin 44 magnums and 444 Marlins to roll out a bore diameter of .431 -.432.  I have no doubt your 38/357 may well bore out to .360. 

I suggest you slug your bore to find it's actual diameter; you may need a larger slug.  HTH.  Mikey.

[dpe.ahoy]

While I don't have the CB, my 357 Marlin does very well with 158g jacketed bullets and max charge of LilGun.  Before LilGun, I used H-110 with the same weight.  Don't have much use for lighter slugs.  Have some CP 160g LBT style GC's loaded with the LilGun that work good in other rifles, haven't run them thru the marlin yet, as well as 170 Speer GD.  DP

[no guns here]

first, pull the scope and go back to iron sights at 25 off of sandbags.  At least you can eliminate the scope/mounting as a problem.  Seems like I've read somewhere that lever actions off of a bag work better with the bag back close to the action...
How does it shoot with factory ammo?


ngh

[Ray Cover]

The scope mounting is not the problem. I am sure of that.  I will have to try and move the sandbag back to see if that helps. 

I am almost embarrassed to admit it but outside of rimfire ammo I have never used factory ammo.  Grew up handloading with my dad and just never did anything else but load my own. 

Ray     

[Ranger J]

Try some 158 gr Mag Tec SPs with a full load of H110.  Mine will shoot ragged holes with this at 50 yards.  On the other hand it doesn't seem to like any 180 gr bullet.   I have tried Hornady and Remington and had bad results with both.

RJ

[Mikey]

Ray - with the Marlin rifles you can use jacketed bullets of nominal caliber diameter without problem and most should shoot with some degree of accuracy but I'm not going to hang my hat on that possibility.  I have had folk tell me of obtaining 'great groups of 4-5" at 50 yds with jacketed bullets from their Marlins, if that is what you want. 

Otherwise I repeat my suggestion to slug your barrel to find its true diameter and cast or buy cast slugs .001" over that size.  Also, if your Marlin wears a micro-groove barrel you may wish to consider lapping the bore to remove rough spots, obdurations or machining marks to give you better accuracy.  I recommend you drop down to Veral Smith's forum in the handloading section of GBO and read what he has to say about lapping bores.  I have follwed his writings as well as those of Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets (add a www and a .com and you are to the Beartooth website) and can say that from my experience it works wonders. HTH.  Mikey.

[nrb]

My Marlin 357mag loves the heavier 158gr jacketed hps and puts them under 2 inches at 100yds with H110 powder. Try the heavier bullets before you go to lapping bores, slugging, etc. Try the simple things first and rule out simple problems.

best,       nrb

[Ray Cover]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I will get some heavier slugs and also measure the bore and get sizing dies to match for my cast bullets.  I will try that first.  I think nrb's suggestion, of trying the simplest easiest things first and then if that doesn't do it take the next step, makes good sense to me.

Ray

[haroldclark]

Ray, I have two Marlin 357s and have shot them for 20 plus years with the Microgrooves barrels.  People will say "That the MicroGrooves don't shoot lead".  That is not true. Yours is the Cowboy version and it has the Ballard rifling which is great too. 

The best shooter of the 2 rifles will put 20 consecutive shots into 1.5" at 100 yards all day long. With Cast bullets......................  I use these loads out to the 300 meter pigs (330 yards) at the Silhouette range.

Don't be embarrassed about not using Factory Ammo.  I'm with you there and I only use Factory to shoot up for the brass and only if it was given to me.

If you have access to a # 353 Saeco 180 plain base cast bullet (no gas check and made of Wheel weights plus 2 % tin to help the grooves fill out).  Size it to .358"   I also, use another mix of Wheel weights and Lino, but it doesn't shoot any better.  I never have any leading of the barrel.  I have always, for 35 years, a lube that is 50/50 Beeswax and Alox.  Javelina is one brand name for it.   No leading.  Except, I have found that H-110 will lead with most cast bullets without a gas check and then sometimes it will with the gas check.

I also, use a 200 grain RCBS bullet with a gas check. 13.5 grains of H-110 produced a 19 shot group at 1.5" @ 100 yards.  I use that load in a 10" contender and my Marlin.  Trouble is in the Marlin, the bullet has to be seated very deep or you have to shoot it once it is in the chamber. Can't get it out due to it's length.  (Doesn't appeal to you?  I don't blame you).

There is a company here in California called Bear Creek Bullets.  I have used his bevel based 180s and they shot very well too.

Load with 13 grains of IMR 4227.  The recoil is modest @ 3.31 foot pounds of energy.

I would suggest leaving the scope on the rifle until you are satisfied with the accuracy.  One note on bench resting the rifle that I have found works best:  Never rest the magazine on the support bag.  Always put the bag/support right up in front of the trigger guard on the forearm. 

If I can be of any help to you, please email me at 7mmtcu162@gmail.com.  I have a Marlin 30/30 in the Cowboy configuration.  Would love to have one like yours in 357 mag.  It's a fever, you know!!!!!!!

Harold Clark

[Chris Potts]

sent you a pm

Chris

[Ray Cover]

You guys got me on track.  Went to the range again today.

THese were both shot with 158 gr Sierra JHC.  One with 13.5 gr of H110 and the second with 16.5 gr of H110.

Chris, I have a couple flat nose bullet molds I would like to try that I use for my revolvers.  My bore measures .359 on the Marlin so I am ordering myself a .359 sizing die for my bullet sizer so I can try that with the cast lead I have on hand. 

If I can't make that work I will try a different bullet mold.

 

[GTKF]

I'm confused, I shoot a lot of silo, SB, HP & all three Lever Action categories. A 357 mag will barely take full size Rams at 200 mtr in Cowboy Lever Action (LA rifle distance), Pigs are shot at 150 mtr in CLA.

HP silo shoots full size pigs at 300 mtr