Author Topic: One muzzleloader all around (which one) (Read 5861 times)

jonv · « **Reply #30 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:40:30 AM »

I thought the .54 cal was almost history, I own one and finding sabots isn't easy, personally I would only buy a .50 cal due to the popularity of this caliber, shouldn't ever have a problem with loads.

Just another opinion

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #31 on:** June 09, 2009, 05:07:27 AM »

As far as smokeless possibility the Savage is the easiest to accomplish that with. There is an organization that makes smokeless capable barrels for the NEF Huntsman although those rifles are now out of production but many are still available. The Huntsman has avid followers and it also has some problems like a screwy ramrod that should be replaced with the Hubbard rod which is available. The Savage is a little heavy compared with other inlines and due to the bolt configuration it is longer for the same barrel length over break action or drop action inlines. As far as smokeless; there are other non smokeless powders that are close to as non-fouling as the smokeless is (BH209 and Black Mag to mention a few). I think if I wanted a "use it anywhere for anything" type of rifle I would look for a White either a 98 or a Ultramag or possibly even a super 91 but would look for the longer barrels. They will shoot everything other than smokeless as good or better than anything else out there. If considering the heavy conical bullets they are the tops for that. I have about four Whites and know of a few for sale from time to time. I know there are some in Canada also.

Bullseye · « **Reply #32 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:22:47 AM »

Whew, there for minute I thought we had done away with seperate Traditional and Modern Muzzleloader forums, then I realized this post had been moved.

If you want to shoot smokeless there is only one factory choice and that is the Savage. You can also buy an Encore barrel to shoot smokeless that is made by a company other than T/C (cannot remember who it is) but they are pricey.

Personally I have had a T/C Renegade Sidelock, Encore and a Savage. I am sticking with the Savage.

TRM-1 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:21:05 PM »

www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com
Makes the smokeless barrels for the encore!

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #34 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:43:52 PM »

They are the ones that also make a barrel for the NEF Huntsman which is a lot less expensive way to go if you do not already have an Encore. Not sure but I think they also can make one for the Sidekick.

Quote from: TRM-1 on June 09, 2009, 01:21:05 PM

www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com
Makes the smokeless barrels for the encore!

Bullseye · « **Reply #35 on:** June 10, 2009, 08:16:50 AM »

The only smokeless barrel they give a price on is the NEF at $350. I thought when I checked into this a few years ago before I sold my Encore and bought a Savage that the Encore barrel was more like $500. Is the NEF barrel that much less, have they lowered their prices, or do I have a really poor memory? For $350 I would have considered keeping my Encore and getting a barrel from them.

Reese · « **Reply #36 on:** June 10, 2009, 08:29:14 AM »

At the bottom of the page of that link it says;

"We also do custom work such as converting other type of rifles to smokeless muzzleloaders. Some of the customs we have done are Ruger number 1, Thompson Center Encore, and various other single shot shotguns.The price depends on the amount of work is required. We make barrel lengths from 18 inches to 34 inches."

Sounds like you have to call for a price for the Encore.

Busta · « **Reply #37 on:** June 10, 2009, 09:59:08 AM »

Quote from: Bullseye on June 10, 2009, 08:16:50 AM

The only smokeless barrel they give a price on is the NEF at $350. I thought when I checked into this a few years ago before I sold my Encore and bought a Savage that the Encore barrel was more like $500. Is the NEF barrel that much less, have they lowered their prices, or do I have a really poor memory? For $350 I would have considered keeping my Encore and getting a barrel from them.

I owned one of them SMI for NEF barrels just long enough to wobble out the breech plug.

Damdest thing I ever saw, they tapped the rifling in the barrel for the 1/2" breech plug with horrible threads.

Needless to say, the only thread engagement was in the lands of the rifling. The coating (wouldn't call it parkerizing) on the barrel was just horrible. I even sent my frame in to have it "fitted", you could not only rock it up and down, but side to side too. The threaded lug for the forend was a smaller diameter than H&R/NEF's, so the forend wobbled too. you would have needed to bed it or install a spacer to take up the slack. The receiver lug had 2 short welds on each side, possibly adequate, but looked cheap and weak, especially for shooting smokeless loads. The drilled & tapped holes were in the T/C Encore pattern and had a cheap Weaver aluminum Encore scope base that was designed for a smaller radius barrel like the Encore. You could see daylight (and I am not talking a little) clear down the crooked length of it. The takedown ramrod was shipped fully assembled in the flimsy cardboard box with the barrel and about 5 sheets of newspaper for padding. It not only arrived bent, but also rubbed the barrel while in shipping. I'm probably forgetting something, but I think you get the idea. Now either I am the unluckiest person in the world, or there might have been a problem somewhere.

I will say that the Douglass barrel looked perfect in the bore, other than where they tapped the lands in the rifling. Now do I think ALL of them are as bad as my example? No, they couldn't ALL have that many problems, could they? I will say RN was a stand up guy and gave me my uncashed check back. It just makes me wonder why he had not cashed it before he sent the barrel, or during the time it took for the barrel to be shipped to me? I have read of several satisfied customers on a few boards, but my experience still cost me my shipping of the receiver and shipping the mess back. So about a $25 lesson and a headache. $:-\$

At the time I bought that barrel they were $325, you could get a Savage Black/Blue from Natchez for $399. I think they are a little more now too, but probably worth it. The Encore barrels cost more because they were "custom", they have a more difficult lug, and they go on an Encore. My $25 worth!

mechanic · « **Reply #38 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:33:39 AM »

Save the money for the custom barrel and just buy some Blackhorn 209 powder. Cleans up with Hoppes #9. Will work in many modern inlines with 209 ignition. Not for traditionals.

222 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:42:49 PM »

I have 2 inlines and one sidelock. I don't use any plastic in the my bores either prb or full sized bullets only deer I have had problems tracking have been one where plastic/subsized bullets. I just bought real fff Goex powder for I am tired of fighting Pyrodex rust even after cleaning and oiling. My next muzzle loader will be a .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle or an older CVA Mountian Rifle.

Bullseye · « **Reply #40 on:** June 11, 2009, 06:45:37 AM »

Even though I traded my Encore for the Savage my wife still shoots an Encore. I would love to try the Blackhorn 209 but I have never seen it in any store and I have looked in a bunch. Suppose I could order it but it is pretty pricey by itself without paying a hazmat fee.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #41 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:13:41 AM »

I shoot both inlines and traditionals. My favorite is my Hawkins Carbine in .54 cal. It comes with a 1 in 24" twist rate barrel and is perfect for sabots. With this gun you could have the best of both worlds, as in inline and traditional cabailities.

As others have said, this is all you need for any game in North American. Because of it's size and weight it is perfect for humping in the woods. I bought one from Cabalas and have another carbine from InvestArms in .50 cal. and shoot patched round balls. I love them both.

Good luck.

Huntsman1 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:17:58 AM »

Quote from: Lawful Larry on June 18, 2009, 04:13:41 AM

I shoot both inlines and traditionals. My favorite is my Hawkins Carbine in .54 cal. It comes with a 1 in 24" twist rate barrel and is perfect for sabots. With this gun you could have the best of both worlds, as in inline and traditional cabailities.

As others have said, this is all you need for any game in North American. Because of it's size and weight it is perfect for humping in the woods. I bought one from Cabalas and have another carbine from InvestArms in .50 cal. and shoot patched round balls. I love them both.

Good luck.

Kinda looks like the Lyman Deerstalker. Still though, she looks to be a handy Lil bush gun with .54cal stopping power..nice!!

Two Bears · « **Reply #43 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:43:19 AM »

Quote from: sixgun_symphony on August 19, 2003, 09:25:50 PM

Those inlines were for the guys who really just want to take their modern cartridge rifles into our primitive firearms season.

My advise is to go with a custom .45 caliber longrifle. You can use if for small to medium game. It will be fine for deer.

OK, I have both inlines and some longrifles(both flinters and cap locks) I love them all.
But the interesting deal is that my .50 cal flinter is a touch more accurate than my Encore, that being said the Encore shoots very tight groups and that flinter will beat it which is cool .
I also find that the flinter and cap locks load just as easy as the inlines so there is not much that the inlines have over any longrifle. Even cleaning is easy on the longrifles.
So if the guy is looking for one that will use smokeless powder he should go for the savage, but if one can get over the "smokeless" hype take your time and find a muzzleloader that suits you and have fun with it.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #44 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:34:38 AM »

Quote from: Huntsman1 on June 18, 2009, 04:17:58 AM

Quote from: Lawful Larry on June 18, 2009, 04:13:41 AM
I shoot both inlines and traditionals. My favorite is my Hawkins Carbine in .54 cal. It comes with a 1 in 24" twist rate barrel and is perfect for sabots. With this gun you could have the best of both worlds, as in inline and traditional cabailities.

As others have said, this is all you need for any game in North American. Because of it's size and weight it is perfect for humping in the woods. I bought one from Cabalas and have another carbine from InvestArms in .50 cal. and shoot patched round balls. I love them both.

Good luck.

Kinda looks like the Lyman Deerstalker. Still though, she looks to be a handy Lil bush gun with .54cal stopping power..nice!!

Actually it is an InvestArms made for Cabalas. I also have one with a PRB barrel (1 in 66" twist). I think it was originally made for distribution in Europe.

The Hawkens Carbine shown is great to carry in the woods. Very light and very accurate with a Barnes Expander sabot.

Capt Gary · « **Reply #45 on:** July 04, 2009, 02:34:37 PM »

Lots of good stuff posted here....buy you an Encore and move on. It will do it all!

Huntsman1 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 04, 2009, 07:02:19 PM »

Quote from: Capt Gary on July 04, 2009, 02:34:37 PM

Lots of good stuff posted here....buy you an Encore and move on. It will do it all!

I thought that too, still do. That was 3 yrs ago, since then I've picked up 4 sidelocks. Two .50's & two .54's (Lyman GPR .54 kit being the newest).
Still, my Encore gets its turn

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #47 on:** July 05, 2009, 01:50:18 AM »

Quote from: Capt Gary on July 04, 2009, 02:34:37 PM

Lots of good stuff posted here....buy you an Encore and move on. It will do it all!

Had one and thought it was a piece of junk. I ended up trading it for a sidelock and never looked back. I went through a miserable year trying to get it to shoot and group. Waisted a lot of time and money do that. the sidelocks are very simple to work with and they end doing what they are supposed to do. And that, my friend, is kill game.

TRM-1 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:21:49 PM »

I say encore I have had real good luck with the encore muzzleloaders. I have owned a total of three and was happy with the performance of all just got new gun fever and got rid of two blued encores ( a .45 and a .50 ) to get a new pro hunter and still have it and couldn't ask for better. 120 grains of blackhorn and a 250 shockwave and get the freezer ready because the meat is on the way

Double 30 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 22, 2009, 01:10:53 AM »

As a catagory I'll recommend the humble plunger fired inline,specifically the T/C Black Diamond.With it I can use #11's, musket caps and 209's and in areas which do not allow closed breech designs,or 209 primers she's legal. Knight rifles of similar design are also excellent , but the T/C's have ( generally) longer barrels so you get alittle better velocity and if you shoot open or peep sights the additional sight radius does no harm.
I started shooting inlines with plunger models and went back to them. Oddly enough, the most consistent and accurate loads in my Black Diamond are with ol' stinky black powder( Swiss)!

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #50 on:** July 22, 2009, 08:32:54 AM »

First I do not think this is the Traditional site. That said, most states do not specify larger than .50 for anything, very few specify .54 or larger. I have both traditional and modern and feel you should use what you like and let everybody else sort out what they like. For a smokeless powder rifle the only high volume one is the Savage but it is a little heavy and somewhat more difficult to clean when not using smokeless powders. Your request would direct me to recommend either the Savage if you really want to shoot smokeless or the CVA Accura if you can rule out smokeless. The Accura will shoot the new BH209 which is not classified as smokeless but performs much like smokeless including the less fouling and less chance of damage if not cleaned immediately after shooting. I have a couple of Whites which are great rifles but now out of production and difficult to find used. In my opinion the Encore is overpriced for what you get and many will not shoot conical bullets with any success. I also read all the "fixes" necessary to make the T/C inline rifles and the Encore shoot well (Cutting off the QLA, reaming out the hinge pin and installing oversize pins etc.). I do not have an Accura but those that do are having very good results with it.