One muzzleloader all around (which one)

[renegade]

I want to buy one good muzzle loader to hunt mainly deer but able to take anything down. Something new, something versitile, something accurate. Recoil is not an issue with me and It would be nice to be able to use smokeless or black powder. What other items do I need. I don't think I'll need a scope but give me your opinion on appropriate sight. Thanks. With your responses I'll make a more informaed buying choice.

Regards,

Rene W. cadene :grin:

[Triple Se7en]

Renegade

There is one blackpowder rifle with unequaled versatility. It's called the Thompson Center Encore. You can add centerfire & shotgun barrels to it. ($529)

http://www.tcarms.com/mlrifles/enc209x50/index.html

If you want to hunt with a smokeless blackpowder rifle, Savage makes a fine two-way rifle. ($399)

http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/savage.htm

[slatecaller]

I highly recommend the Encore as well.

[TOGO]

Renegade,

   From your description, sounds like you need the new Savage inline, it uses smokeless or black powder, comes with iron sights but can be scoped and will take down any animal north america has to offer.  :grin:

[sixgun_symphony]

Those inlines were for the guys who really just want to take their modern cartridge rifles into our primitive firearms season.

 My advise is to go with a custom .45 caliber longrifle. You can use if for small to medium game. It will be fine for deer.

[HWooldridge]

I have several ML rifles and am building a 45 kit right now but prefer the 54 caliber over anything else.  The 54 will kill anything in North America but can be loaded down to shoot rabbits, if necessary.  I prefer the long Tennessee or Southern rifles in percussion with a 42" barrel.  They shoot well offhand and carry easily in the field.

[simonkenton]

I agree with Wooldrige. Get a mountain rifle in .54. This starts you off with the basics, with the roots of muzzleloading. That Lyman Great Plains rifle would be a good one, it is more of the Hawken style. You could get a Dixie Tenn Mtn rifle, they only come in .50, but a good game getter.
Since you aren't worried about using a scope, I think this is where you should start. Use black powder, too.

[Underclocked]

I don't care for the idea of shooting smokeless in a muzzleloader (sorry, but that's my limit - and I'll define for myself what is smokeless, thanks) BUT the Savage is the only one made to do just that.  It will also shoot BP and the subs but be prepared to buy vent liners often if you do much shooting with those powders.

If you want a great rifle, the Encore mentioned can be excellent in the 209 choices as can be the White 98 Elite Hunter in the #11 ignition category, the A&H Provo, Utah guns models 320 or 420 are very nice,  or some of the Knights (a little objection here to the proprietary Knight not-DISCs ).  And there surely is nothing wrong with a well-made traditional, if you do not require optics to shoot well.

[Charlie Detroit]

Mighty perty rifle, sixgun_symphony!

[Winter Hawk]

Looks like you could be opening a can of worms here!  With no basic parameters given, it's hard to advise you.  We have the inline folks giving their input, but we don't know if you want modern or traditional.

Okay, you did say both smokless and BP so that sounds like inline, and the only one to do that is Savage.

For traditional, the Lyman Great Plains Rifle is hard to beat.  It comes in flintlock or percussion, and has a roundball twist rate.  As far as critters larger than deer, Alaska has a minimum caliber for big game (except deer) of .54 roundball, or .45 caliber, 250 gr. for conical bullets.  If you want to shoot conicals, you really should use a faster twist than 1:66" for good accuracy.  Lyman does offer a 1:32" twist drop in barrel for the GPR, or you can go to their Trade Rifle.  This has a 1:48" twist which is a good compromise to shoot both round ball and conicals.

If you want to get something fancier, get a copy of Muzzleloader Magazine and check out the ads.

If you don't want to spend a whole bunch of bucks to get started, you might seriously consider the Hawken which Cabela's sells.  It is surprisingly accurate and won't break the bank.

Then you need something to cary your powder in.  When I started playing with BP in '68 I had a spout which replaced the cap on a can of powder and that worked fine.  A cheap powder horn will do, or a powder flask.  Then you need a powder measure.  There are several available from Thompson Center as well as others.  You always want to pour the powder into into the measure, not from the flask into the barrel.  If there are any embers left in the barrel the whole thing could explode and ruin your day, big time.  If you go with percussion, you need the appropriate caps (primers for the inlines).  The flintlocks I have bought new came with a flint to get started, but you will need to get some more.  Powder of course to make everything go "boom."  And bullets.  If you are shooting the round ball, you also will need patches.  If the gun doesn't come with one, get a cleaning jag.

Hope this little dissertation helps.  Let us know how you make out!

-Kees-

[mamaflinter]

Here's my opinion. If you want traditional type rifle get something in a .54 or .58. You'll have enough gun to take anything you want and load down for whatever.

If you want modern, buy a Savage. It too can be loaded to take anything. If you load with smokeless you can take any big game animal. If you load with bp or subs, you can load down for smaller game.

There's enough variety on the market for everyone who is interested in muzzleloading to find something to their liking.

[johnt]

The .54 will take any animal you want.

Hey canuk! a custom penn rifle with a swamped colerain 42" "C" profile with a 1 in 56 will toss a .54 PRB a long way's, an goodly to the mark. With plenty a "thump" ta boot.

 Put that in front of a rock lock,an even you feller's north of the 49th can still have one. :oops:
 It's really just a matter of what ya want. Smokeless?  

[renegade]

I guess I wasn't specific enough. Thanks for your input. I hope some of you don't take this the wrong way but I'm not buying a muzzle loader for any traditional hunting reasons. I'm just interested in being able to hunt different seasons and different areas. My attitude may change. I know I get a sense of pride reloading for my rifles. I would like a gun that stands up to the rigors of various climates and is reliable and accuarate. I was thinking 50 cal. This fall I will deer hunt with it but future years may see elk, antelope, mule deer, and whatever else I can get lucky enough to hunt.
    I didn't realize that Savage was the only manufacturer to make a muzzle loader capable of using smokeless. I can understand the anti's. It seems as though muzzle loaders are fast becoming centerfire like just from the limited information I've gathered so far. Looking at reg's for a few states and prov's I notice some don't allow smokeless muzzle loaders. I think I want an inline, am I correct in assuming they are the most hassle free and easier to handle and clean??
    I live in Canada and will likely buy from SIR or Farmer's supply in Winnepeg. They have a savage inline in stock.....stainless....how long will take for me to group adequately out to 100 yds?? What ammo or loads..

I better stop.......


Thanks for the responses.  I'll look a little closer at the knight and TC's.

[KING]

 Renegade.  Depending on what it is that you get,and I am assuming that you will purchase an In-line,a few hours should get you to where you want to be.  Now,you might not be printing little tiny groups as of yet,but keep carful notes on amounts of powder,sabots,and slugs(differant types) and you will be alright.  Dont ever assume that one load that someone gives you will work the same in your rifle.  It may have to be tweeked a little bit.  Dont be afraid to as questions,there are plenty of people on here that will assist you,just get what it is that you feel are ready for.  Stay safe.........King

[xnmr53]

Renegade,

It is my understanding that a few states do not allow inlines.

[Triple Se7en]

Renegade

If you don't plan on swapping Encore barrels, no need to buy it. There are other inlines for less money with equal billing in accuracy & quality.
Some other inlines to consider are:
T/C Omega and Black Diamond XR
Knight Disc Elite - Extreme - Wolverine II 26"
Austin & Halleck 420 or 320
White M98 or M97 Whitetail

If you need help locating any of these, feel free to ask for online distributors.

[mamaflinter]

I guess I wasn't specific enough. Thanks for your input. I was thinking 50 cal. This fall I will deer hunt with it but future years may see elk, antelope, mule deer, and whatever else I can get lucky enough to hunt.
    I didn't realize that Savage was the only manufacturer to make a muzzle loader capable of using smokeless. I can understand the anti's. It seems as though muzzle loaders are fast becoming centerfire like just from the limited information I've gathered so far. Looking at reg's for a few states and prov's I notice some don't allow smokeless muzzle loaders. I think I want an inline, am I correct in assuming they are the most hassle free and easier to handle and clean??
   

renegade Let me address your questions one at a time. A .54 is the minimum caliber in alot of states for elk so if this is in your plans, I'd opt now for the .54.

Yes currently there are some states that don't allow smokeless however, there is a person who is a Savage advocate who is challenging these states on their game laws and in some of those states he is winning and the laws were changed.

As far as cleaning is concerned, no the inlines are not easier to clean. I've watched my hubby clean both side locks and inlines and he takes much longer on the inlines than the side locks because of breechplugs and such.  They may be easier to handle if they feel comfortable to you.  As far as hassle free, there is no such thing. Each muzzleloader regardless of type, requires plenty of range time to find your rifles "pet load" so that you know you are shooting the most accurate load you can in your rifle. That only comes from plenty of range time and experimentation. Keep a notebook with you on your trips to the range and write down what worked, what didn't, and what changes you make. Make sure to only change on variable in the equation on any given shot so you know what works and what didn't. Otherwise you'll be scratching your head trying to figure it which change made the difference.

[renegade]

That's interesting, which ones and why? I wish I could shoot a muzzle loader but absolutely no one here in Marathon has one. We don't have special muzzle loading seasons in Ontario. Sure there are bow hunters, but muzzle loaders....none. All my information is from you guys, books and magazines. It is amazing how many people use muzzle loaders in provinces and states that have special seasons. Anyway, even though I haven't made up my mind yet, I'll keep digging for information.

When I do get one, I'm sure I'll have more questions......lol

RENE

[Bob/FLA]

.72 smoothrifle for anything within 50 yards..pigs, deer, elk, doves, phesant.   :-D

[azshooter]

Personally I consider the smokeless inlines cheating.  The rules for special muzzleloader hunts were not made with the intent that guys could bend the rules and hunt with scoped inlines (some shooting smokeless).  Enjoy the white smoke - it is part of the experience.  

I suggest the Lyman Great Plains Hunter with 1:32 twist.  Mine is .54 cal and I am very pleased with it.  For one, it is traditional style but very accurate and quite well made at a reasonable cost.

[sixgun_symphony]

I would like a gun that stands up to the rigors of various climates and is reliable and accuarate.

 A traditional ML rifle or musket is capable of all that. I know the inline peddlers will have you believe otherwise, but accuracy is what's in the barrel and reliability has to do with overall quality. Reliability and accuracy also require that the shooter does his part.

 Alot of myths about traditional guns got started because people were buying cheap guns made in Spain. You get what you pay for. Also, alot of modern shooters don't even realize that tradional ML rifles have rifling in the barrel, they believe that all traditional ML guns are smoothbore. Many won't even use the term "rifle" when describing a traditional ML rifle, for many shooters in this day and age, a "rifle" does not describe a rifled bore but that it describes a shoulder fired gun that uses a centerfire "rifle" cartridge. It just goes to show the level of ignorance in many when it comes to firearms in general. Thus we see the development of the modern inline muzzle loading gun, a weapon marketed to the gullible and uninformed. Why many inlines even have a bolt-action, it's true function is largely a panacea for modern shooters that are afraid to venture beyond the familiar.

 
 

[sixgun_symphony]

.72 smoothrifle for anything within 50 yards..pigs, deer, elk, doves, phesant.   :-D

 For that reason, the fouling piece was the "general purpose" firearm of it's day. Though a sporting weapon, several militia units were mostly armed with fowling pieces in the 18th century.

[S.S.]

Some of the most accurate muzzle loading rifles I have ever fired
had barrels made in spain. inexpensive does not always equate to junk.
The Whitetail that have fallen to my old CVA .45cal. kentucky rifle with a Spanish barrel
never knew what country the gun was made in.

[Swampman]

The best is the Savage ML-II.  The Knights are excellent too, but you can't use smokeless.  I would avoid anything made in Spain.

I like traditional guns, but they aren't very versitile, nor very accurate at long range (100+ yards.)  If you're killing a lot of deer every year and want a challange then they are ok.

[Forestclimber]

HAHA.  You want one muzzleloader?  I said that too a long time ago.  Now I have a closet full.

[Huntsman1]

IMHO go with a side lock in either .50 or .54. Although my 1st ml is an Encore which is great mind you...I'd start off with a traditional stinky stick, open sights, #11 caps, lead balls, FFFG black powder and real wood.
Then once you've settled your appetite decide if an in-line is really for you 
Besides, your question was asked in the "Traditional Muzzle Loading forum". Anything modern (in-line) would be pure blasphemy around here lol.

[sixgun_symphony]

I think I want an inline, am I correct in assuming they are the most hassle free and easier to handle and clean??
    

 
 Hassle free cleaning? Running a cloth patched cleaning jag up and down the barrel with hot, soapy water is simple and easy. But I get alot of strange looks from newbies because this system is not what they are used to. It all just comes down to learning about traditional guns and blackpowder.

 

[45-70.gov]

renagade

i bought a renagade 50 cal  t/c   kit
was introtuced  to  the maxi slug

have never felt the need for anything more
except a companion pistol  in  50  i just got even swap on 45 pistol and  some 45 balls for it


not  only is the renegade a lot for the money
you  have to be partial  to its  NAME

[filmokentucky]

I want to buy one good muzzle loader to hunt mainly deer but able to take anything down. Something new, something versitile, something accurate. Recoil is not an issue with me and It would be nice to be able to use smokeless or black powder. What other items do I need. I don't think I'll need a scope but give me your opinion on appropriate sight. Thanks. With your responses I'll make a more informaed buying choice.

Regards,

Rene W. cadene :grin:

Have you posted this on the modern muzzleloader forum directly below this one? I think they would be more helpful to you since they are more familiar with the kind of rifle you want. They may know of rifles that the more tradition minded people on this forum don't. Be sure to check your state laws to see what is allowed as they do change from time to time.

[Ladobe]

In-lines, Savage, Encore... did somebody misplace the traditional forum?

Get a sidelock 54 capper and go hunting.