The Foundry Machinist Tool, Tool Marks and Tooling Contest

[seacoastartillery]

                 THE FOUNDRY MACHINIST TOOL, TOOL MARKS AND TOOLING CONTEST
                                                    Brought to You by Seacoast Artillery Company



     This Contest is dedicated to all those Machinists, Mechanics, Inspectors, NC and CNC Programmers and Mechanical Engineers we have met over the years and with whom we have enjoyed working.  Basically, this Contest will consist of one or two specific questions related to each of the photos.  The location of the Gun WILL NOT be important on these, except for one or two.   Nine or ten photos as usual, will be the extent of it and presentation should occur on Saturday, the 27th in the late afternoon or early evening.  The identification of both Cannon making TOOLS, TOOLING and TOOL MARKS will be what this contest is all about.  This contest will be over when all the questions are answered.  Sometimes multiple answers are acceptable.  Try to relate your answers to the tools and tooling available during the era of the Civil War.

     All those participating will be vying for the Title:  Foundry Machinist Extraordinaire.  However, please remember these things:  One, nobody really takes these Contests seriously and the purpose of all this is simply to have some fun.  Two, if ever there was a time to become a member of this Black Powder Mortar and Cannon Board, this is it.  Here are three good reasons for signing up:

1.   You can see only about 50% of the photos that members post unless you are a member.  Members see 100% of those photos.
2.   You must be a member to post your answers to these Contest questions.
3.   It’s FREE !!

Have Fun !      Mike and Tracy        Seacoast Artillery Company


1.   What is this?  How is it used in ordnance production?  Where did we find it?  Location IS important for this one.  As we left a little diner in this city, the lady said, “ Ya’ll come back now, heaa.”




2.   Here is another photo of that partial, 15” Rodman lower carriage (chassis) that we showed in the Christmas Greetings thread.  What type of axle do these two side-by-side dimples indicate?  What machine tool is used to shape this type of axle? For what purpose is this axle used? 




3.   This 11” Dahlgren Shell Gun, located in White Point Gardens, at the tip of Charleston’s peninsula was removed from an Experimental Federal Ironclad which sank off of Morris Island, SC after the Ironclad Attack of April 1862 in Charleston, South Carolina’s outer harbor.  What was that ironclad’s name?  Why does the muzzle have such an odd shape?  What tool(s) were used to shape it.  It WAS` NOT cast this way.




4.   This rifled, unbanded, 32 Pdr., CSA seacoast gun cast in 1829, located at Ft. Gaines on Dauphin Island, AL, has a muzzle-face scar.  What type of tool removed the material.  Why was this material removed?




5.   What caused all those scratches beside this 100 Pdr. Parrott’s Front Sight Mass,  below the 6” scale?  Why was this work done?  Why are there no scratches to the right of the vertical line seen here.




6.   The dismounted 15” Rodman Gun at Fort Knox in Prospect, Maine displays 5 or 6 of these circular score marks on the breech and first reinforce.  What made these tool marks?  What purpose do they have?





7.   The trunnion markings on one of the four 32 Pdr. Navy Guns of 57 hundredweight that we found at the Miles Standish cemetery in South Duxbury, MA.  What sort of tool was used to make these markings at West Point Foundry in 1848?  How do you know that this type of tool was used?




8.   We found this cannon on the Glacis of Fort Morgan, Alabama.  This trunnion face has a tapered hole in it.  What was the purpose of this hole and the one on the opposite trunnion?  These markings indicate both the type of banded rifle and where this naval artillery was made (name either of the two places). 




9.   We photographed this 8” Armstrong Shell at Fort Fisher in Kure Beach, NC in December of 2005 while we were making an engineering drawing of the original tube on loan from the United States Military Academy at West Point, NY.  What tool shaped these copper studs?  Why shape them like this?  What shape is most likely for the portion of the stud under the shell’s exterior?




10.   We found these tool marks on a 100 Pdr. Parrott rifle in City Park, Denver, Colorado.  What type of tooling caused these marks which are almost parallel to the edge of the shape duplicator?  What machine tool held the tube during this operation?

[Rickk]

I'm not a machinist, just an electrical engineer with backyard metal mangling experience. However, I'll take a stab at 7 and 9.


7) It was stamped with a stamping die and a hammer.. The "2" was not held square when it was hit and was not fully formed. The letters were struck individually with a hammer (probably a fairly big hammer - 4# maybe?), because the letter spacing is not even. A big hammer is prefered because you want to do it all with one hit. If you hit it a second time because the first hit was inadequate it will blur. I am assuming this because that's how mine come out when I do it that way as well.

9) I am guessing that a hammer, possibly a ball pein hammer and also a square, flat ended hammer, was used to shape the copper studs. I say that because I do leather work and use a ball pein hammer to set the heads on copper rivets. The round end of a ball pein hammer can work metal fast because of the small contact area and large force behind it. Then I use a hammer with a small square, flat head to finish up the rivet shape, and that may have come in handy to get the particular shape of these studs as well.  I am thinking that the shape matches up with barrel rifling. I would guess that the other side of the rivets would be cylindrical, as they would have to fit into holes in the shell and round holes are the easiest to make. As the exposed side was beat into rectangular shape, the end that goes into the hole would also have been expanded to lock it in place.

Rick

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks Rick, I guess you nailed that #9 completely, although a file could have been used I guess.  I think your method would be quicker, because copper is so maleable.  On that #7, I see what you mean on the partially formed "2", but what worries me a bit is the "8".  Take a close look at the top and bottom of those circular portions of that character.  Do those circular features look discontinuous to you, like a graver could have produced two curls to make each circle?

    Anybody else have a thought on #7?         Rickk is credited with #9 and maybe the other after discussion.

T&M

[KABAR2]

Lets see...... # 1)

                        A large metal lathe with about a 6 to 7 ft swing hard to tell how far between centers, I would say with the face plate it was used to turn castings for drive wheels for locomotives & wheels for rolling stock,
                        but could also be used for cannon barrels. It appears to be at a RR depot museum in Alabama, (state flag in background) and by the structure

                       I would say it is the Old Depot Museum in Selma.

                         
                         note the wagon wheel in your photo matches the little wagon in this one.

                      http://www.terragalleria.com/america/alabama/selma/picture.usal38152.html

[XxLT250RxX]

#1

   is some sort of lathe.  The large "plate" on the headstock end is similar to a drive plate used with a lathe dog to turn between centers, except for the extra holes and slots.  My guess is this driveplate/faceplate is used for fixturing or indexing.   Location-guessing Alabama.

[KABAR2]

Lets see #3

The sides of the muzzle were milled flat for the oval gun ports the mount is for a  Rodman Gun because of the elevating feature at the rear of the carriage.






http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-k/keokuk.htm


"Keokuk:  [Images] This experimental ironclad was armed with two pivot guns in non-rotating towers. Her armor was insufficent to protect her. Originally intended to be called "Moodna." Submitted to the Ironclad Board along with the original designs, but not initially accepted. Constructed by Underhill at New York NT. Launched 6 Dec 62. Commissioned 24 Feb 63. Arrived Port Royal 26 Mar 63. SABS. Ordered to North Edisto River 1 Apr 63. Bombarded Fort Sumter 7 Apr 63. Hit 90 times, 18 below water line. Sank 8 Apr 63 (none killed). Armament salvaged by Confederates 1 May 63 and 5 May 63. One gun survives at White Point Gardens (Battery Park) in Charleston. Wreckers did not disturb hull prior to 1870 as it was out of the main ship channel, but may have been broken up sometime thereafter. Commander: Cdr. Alexander C. Rhind (Oct 62-Apr 63). "

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~jenkins/ironclads/unioncoast.

[KABAR2]

#2

Is the two center points are from 2 lathe operations turning the shaft of the axle off center giving it an elliptical or eccentric shape this would allow the shaft to raise the carriage
so the wheels would roll carrying the weight of the gun,

[KABAR2]

#4

This was done to sample the Iron to test its strength & density  I am not sure how this was removed but by it's circular shape possibly a milling attachment of some type.

my second guess would be that a shall we say rod was formed in the face of the muzzle when cast and it was chiseled or snapped off for testing......

[Cat Whisperer]

             
7.   The trunnion markings on one of the four 32 Pdr. Navy Guns of 57 hundredweight that we found at the Miles Standish cemetery in South Duxbury, MA.  What sort of tool was used to make these markings at West Point Foundry in 1848?  How do you know that this type of tool was used?

Interesting form of the grooves.  Looks like a tool such as a ball end mill or router could have been used with a template for each letter.  Start and stop point on right side of top loop of the 8's.  Template could have been a little high on one side on the letter that is partially cut.

[Cat Whisperer]

             
8.   We found this cannon on the Glacis of Fort Morgan, Alabama.  This trunnion face has a tapered hole in it.  What was the purpose of this hole and the one on the opposite trunnion?  These markings indicate both the type of banded rifle and where this naval artillery was made (name either of the two places). 

As lathe centers the two holes could not support the weight of the tube; however could be used to locate a rotating device used to cut or true the trunions. (or to locate some other device).

[Cat Whisperer]

             
4.   This rifled, unbanded, 32 Pdr., CSA seacoast gun cast in 1829, located at Ft. Gaines on Dauphin Island, AL, has a muzzle-face scar.  What type of tool removed the material.  Why was this material removed?

A curiosity.  If an impact, it would affect the ID of the bore - not good.  If it was a riser broken off after the casting process - not in an especially good place for casting being that close to the bore.  Unbanded - by intent?  Is this a reject barrel?  Like the others, I'd love to see more detail and to change my perspective and the lighting.

[Victor3]

 #1 is a rifling machine. Too light to be any kind of a lathe. I say this with nearly 100% (+/- 75%) certainty.

 Might also be a locating fixture for a shaping operation.

 I think...

[KABAR2]

#1 is a rifling machine. Too light to be any kind of a lathe. I say this with nearly 100% (+/- 75%) certainty.

 Might also be a locating fixture for a shaping operation.

 I think...

Victor there is no provision for the rifle cutter the shaft is held between centers, lathes of this period were not as heavy as we think of in modern terms.
This type of lathe was not for taking deep cuts on metal, it was for foundry work where you were finishing the casting so no need for massively built lathe.

[Double D]

     Thanks Rick, I guess you nailed that #9 completely, although a file could have been used I guess.  I think your method would be quicker, because copper is so maleable.  On that #7, I see what you mean on the partially formed "2", but what worries me a bit is the "8".  Take a close look at the top and bottom of those circular portions of that character.  Do those circular features look discontinuous to you, like a graver could have produced two curls to make each circle?

    Anybody else have a thought on #7?         Rickk is credited with #9 and maybe the other after discussion.

T&M

I also see hammer struck number numbers in number 7.  The first 8 was struck up side down, small loop on bottom.  The second 8 was also struck upside down but was angled so the bottom loop did not fully imprint.  The stamp was turned over and attempt was made to align the loops was made

[Terry C.]

No ironclad (pun) answers to share, but I think it bears pointing out that you can get a more detailed view of any of the images in this thread by doing this:

Right click on the image
Select "properties"
Copy the URL

Open a new window
Paste the URL into the address bar
Replace "standard.jpg" with "orig.jpg"

This will bring up the photo in the size at which it was uploaded. Since it's in a separate window, it won't be downsized by the forum software. This will work with most links created by FotoTime.

Most. Not mine, but that's a whole 'nuther story...

[Double D]

Yep that will work with fototime, unles the original is smaller than the standard.

[Terry C.]

True, I didn't consider that possibility.

But I did cover myself when I said "most." 


I've developed my own habit of posting photos. Often the photo displayed is saved at the max size allowed by the forum software, clicking on it links to a larger version that opens in a separate window.

The largest photo that the page will display without resizing is 500 pixels wide and/or tall. I know it's supposed to be 572 or something like that, but somewhere down the line in software changes it became 500. If I'm creating images specifically for posting on this forum, I'll save a copy sized to fit.

One other thing I've noticed, the forum software does a much better job of reducing large photos than it does when the image size is very close to the max. Photos that are only slightly reduced tend to display rough and jagged, while larger photos smooth out very nicely.

[seacoastartillery]

     Wow, I was beginning to think there were no machinists in this group after all, then computer gremlins hit.  Minor episode, I hope.  KABAR2,  Allen you just about own #1, but we need to see a link with artillery and the old depot.  An obtuse HINT:  The X. O. of the CSS Virginia worked for the designer of that ship shortly after 24 March 1862 in a manufacturing management capacity.

     Thank you LT250, your description of lathe dogs and faceplates is accurate; use the hint above to make the arty. mfg. link;  need name of the city also.

     Allen, thanks for all that great info and photos on the federal ironclad Keokuk.  Muzzle was milled off??; what type of milling machine existed back then?  What type of axle was it; describe the shape; how many lathe turned surfaces?

    Allen, you are correct on #4 as far as purpose.  The material removed was called a "Test Coupon" and was used exactly as you described.  Milling machine, no.  What DID they have which could do a shallow "Trepanning" and what would be next to actually fracture the "Coupon"?

    Tim,  you have correctly described one-half the answer to #8.  The old Trunnion Lathe required much larger centers, obviously. What type of ordnance was it; where was it made, just one of two possible places.

    Tim, on that #7 trunnion face markings question, think 1848, the tools available during that year.

     Tim, on #4, it's not a curiosity, there are these all over the country, mainly in the guns cast from 1824 to about 1850.  Unbanded by design, early in the war, this was not an ideal situation, but the risk was judged to be worth the reward of having rifled artillery.  By 1863 almost all CSA and CSN cannon were banded.  There are four of these at Fort Gaines, Alabama.  Sorry, can't get you more photos. This is an old chemical film photo, only one I have.

     Victor 3,  I am speachless, for once I don't know what to say.

     Double D, now that I hear that explanation, I believe Rickk saw it more clearly than I did.  #7 goes to Rickk.  Thank you.

     TerryC,   You have our thanks for the photo enlargement tutorial.  It is long overdue; we have done that before, but could not remember how.  Is that sad or what?  THANK YOU !!  Very useful information.

     Guess that's it for now.  Keep going!  KABAR2 please expand on 1-4, you have 1/2 of each nailed, so far.

Regards,

T&M

[KABAR2]

O.K. I decided to do a little digging for my Encyclopedia.......

FARROW'S MILITARY ENCYCLOPEDIA VOLUME I PRINTED 1885 pages 257 &258 Finishing



The lathe in the photo is of the type used for finishing castings of cannon,  the article describes the process in detail

the marks made on # 10 & it may have also been used to remove the material on the muzzle of #3

 

are made by a planer  I will try to scan the pages as it will be easier than
my transcribing it.

[KABAR2]

Gee this lathe didn't have anything to do with the Brook Rifle did it? 

"Commander Catesby ap Roger Jones: A native of Virginia, he commanded the naval ordinance works here and the Ironclad vessel "Merrimac" in the battle vs the Monitor. Jones also helped perfect the design of the famous Brooke Cannon, the largest and the best made. He came to Selma in 1863 and married local girl, Gertrude Tartt. The Jones family still reside in his home on Tremont Street and remain prominent in the community. A fictionalized Commander Jones was featured in a Civil War series on television recently. Notice the "ap" preceding the middle name. This is a Welsh tradition that the family still follows today. It means son of, for example Catesby, son of, Roger Jones."

http://www.selmaalabama.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8&Itemid=31
 
 

[GGaskill]

Re. Number Ten, standard shapers and planers make straight line movements and clearly the movement required for the hemispherical surface of the breech of a Parrott is not straight line.  Since the tube would require rotation along its longitudinal axis during the feed portion of the process, I am thinking that this work would have to have been done on a specialty shaper that moved its cutter in a matching arc.  I can imagine how to make such a machine but have never seen one that would work in such a fashion.  Presumably the cutting process was done before the reinforce was applied.

[KABAR2]

Re. Number Ten, standard shapers and planers make straight line movements and clearly the movement required for the hemispherical surface of the breech of a Parrott is not straight line.  Since the tube would require rotation along its longitudinal axis during the feed portion of the process, I am thinking that this work would have to have been done on a specialty shaper that moved its cutter in a matching arc.  I can imagine how to make such a machine but have never seen one that would work in such a fashion.  Presumably the cutting process was done before the reinforce was applied.

I would say the planer blade would be ground to the desired shape of the work being done, in the article it describes how the cutter cuts on the rearward stroke and with each pass the gun indexes the width of the cut with each pass of the planing bar, the proper direction is given to the cutter by means of a guide attached to the planing bar which moves in a groove of the required curvature.

[seacoastartillery]

     Allen,   Thanks for all the very interesting info on Catesby Jones background, you have correctly answered #1.   The Naval Ordnance Works was incredibly important to Confederate artillery production for both seacoast and naval artillery. Jones largely created this huge manufacturing facility out of nothing much right next to the old Selma RR Depot.  One building remains today of this incredible war-time complex.

     George and Allen, please take a look at that tool I am holding and think simple, quick and cheap, the 19th century way.  This tooling is DIRECTLY related to those interesting circular score marks on the big Rodman gun at Fort Knox.

Press on,

T&M
     

[seacoastartillery]

 oops

[KABAR2]

"Allen, you are correct on #4 as far as purpose.  The material removed was called a "Test Coupon" and was used exactly as you described.  Milling machine, no.  What DID they have which could do a shallow "Trepanning" and what would be next to actually fracture the "Coupon"?"

well Lets see "Trepanning" was a medical technique for cutting a hole in the skull to relieve pressure on the brain..... (I made one of these for a friend who does living history as a doctor)

 I will assume a circular cutter was used around the Coupon and was then snapped off,

I just dug out my American Machinists Handbook 7th edition (1940) and my copy of Modern Shop Practice Vol.IV Foundry work, Molding,Casting,Forging(1919)  and could not find the term used at these later dates.  so now an internet search........

ASM Materials Engineering Dictionary "Trepanning Drill mounted adjustable fly cutter used for trepanning various sized discs from flat stock"

So rather than a bar molded on the muzzle face a disc was cut from the face leaving the dimple.....

[KABAR2]

"
5.   What caused all those scratches beside this 100 Pdr. Parrott’s Front Sight Mass,  below the 6” scale?  Why was this work done?   


You could use the planing apparatus only so far.......
I would say that the only way to finish this area would be by hand using chisels this would remove the roughness from the casting process.


"Why are there no scratches to the right of the vertical line seen here."

that area is beyond the trunnions so it could be lathe turned

I have to leave for a few hours I'll be back around 9 or 10 pm. see y'all latter

[Terry C.]

The material removed was called a "Test Coupon" and was used exactly as you described.  Milling machine, no.  What DID they have which could do a shallow "Trepanning" and what would be next to actually fracture the "Coupon"?

But why?

The only logical explanation I can come up with that would explain this test is that the muzzle face, unlike the rest of the cannon's surface, is from the interior of the rough casting. The majority of the cannon's surface is machined just enough for cleanup and sizing critical sufaces such as trunnions.

The muzzle face OTOH is formed when the deadhead is cut off.

A sample cut from the muzzle face would be more indicative of the overall quality of the casting.

[KABAR2]

The material removed was called a "Test Coupon" and was used exactly as you described.  Milling machine, no.  What DID they have which could do a shallow "Trepanning" and what would be next to actually fracture the "Coupon"?

But why?

The only logical explanation I can come up with that would explain this test is that the muzzle face, unlike the rest of the cannon's surface, is from the interior of the rough casting. The rest of the cannon is basically 'as-cast' and machined just enough for cleanup and sizing critical sufaces such as trunnions. The muzzle face OTOH is formed when the deadhead is cut off.

A sample cut from the muzzle face would be more indicative of the overall quality of the casting.

I believe when the cannon were cast the flask was muzzle up all the impurities would rise to the muzzle end if the impurities were past the muzzle the test coupon would show this.

[KABAR2]

   
     George and Allen, please take a look at that tool I am holding and think simple, quick and cheap, the 19th century way.  This tooling is DIRECTLY related to those interesting circular score marks on the big Rodman gun at Fort Knox.

Press on,

T&M
     

I assume you are talking about the contour gauge  in the photo,  in my Prior Post I mentioned that the tooling would be ground to the shape of the work being done,  a tool like this would
aid in the grinding and the contour would also be used as a guide in the machine.  

[seacoastartillery]

     Allen, now your cooking with gas!  No. 4. is answered correctly.  Thank you for all that info on trepanning.  Number 5. is answered correctly, chisels and files were used a lot on these large cannon and the degree of finish they achieved is outstanding in many cases. I know that you fellows were holding back at the beginning now, so  for EXTRA CREDIT does anyone know how the foundry machinists working at West Point Foundry removed all that cast iron from the bores of all those Parrott rifles they produced before switching to the Rodman, water cooled, hollow cast method?  It took the Confederate machinists 900 hours to drill and bore a 7" bore on a doubled banded Brooke.  Parrott's foundry machists did the same amount of work in 20 hours!! How?  Tooling and method please.

Keep it going,

T&M