Need some help on disipline for other peoples children.

[teddy12b]

Hello,
     I was at a family get together tonight and I was playing with my nephew & his cousin ( 6 years old & 8 ).  When it was time to quit wrestling around I told the boys we were done.  They tried to keep playing around and I had to tell them several times to knock it off and that we were done.  About the fifth time of me saying we were done I had to individually grab the boys arms firmly and in a tougher voice tell them that we were done.  Half the family was there and watched the whole thing they didn't say anything to me about playing to rough or about grabbing there arms.  A little while later the Mom/Aunt wanted me to apologize to the boys because they were upset about the whole thing.  One was crying, the other was completely silent so I could tell them I was sorry if I grabbed them too hard.  Well, then the mom/aunt got upset at me because I told the kids no and some harsh words were said by both parties.  Now everyone seems to be pretty upset about the whole thing and it's a guarantee for drama in the family now.

    Is it wrong to grab a kids arm and firmly tell them no after 4 or 5 times of telling them no nicely?  I just get so tired of being the bad guy for telling the children no.  One of them has already been kicked out of one school for not listening to anyone and I don't know how to help the kid.  I want to be a fun uncle, but at the same time I'm not being a good uncle if I let the kid grow up and be disrespectful or not obey any rules.  It's pretty well understood in the community that all these kids missbehave and the parents are especially sensitive about any criticism.  I don't want to make things worse, but I don't know what I can do to make things better.

    Especially all you parents out there, what do you all think?  Am I the worst uncle in the world?

[45-70.gov]

get  a dog trainig  book

may  sound  dumb  but  true

keep  it  simple
be  consistant

don't  say  it to them  unles  you mean it

[teddy12b]

Sorry 45-70.gov,
  I clicked "post" before I had everything written and when I finished writing everything you already had responded.  You're quick on the draw!

[hillbill]

shock collar works good if yu start yung enuf.seriously tho just stand strong they will respect yu for it when they are maybe 30 or so.i know i did my parents.good luk.

[DalesCarpentry]

I don't see anything wrong with what you have done at all. Dale

[hillbill]

ted, i dont think yu did anything wrong but hey im not the mommy.my kids would love for their uncle to pay any attention at all to them.this spring take them fishing and trust me thats what they will remember the rest of their lives.

[45-70.gov]

UNCLE

you  were  wrong  when  you  told them to quit  the  3rd  time
the  first  time  they  MIGHT  not  have  heard
the 2nd  time  you  look  them  in  the  eye  confirm  they  heard  you
third  time........put  them  on  the  floor

every  one  else  is  WAY  out  of  line  and  is the  reason  these kids are  brats
next  time  just be  clumsy  and step on  their  foot or  knee them in  the  head
you  are  probly  their only  hope

they  need  to  know  you  mean  what  you [and others]  say
i  hope  you  didn't  hurt  these  kids  by  appologiesing

[SM Bob]

teddy12b,
You did nothing wrong. These two need some discipline. Unfortunately
for them their parents aren't giving them any. You might want to point
out to the parents of these kids that there is something wrong here.
If they keep going down that road nothing good will come out of it.
These kids need to be taught some manners and respect. Above all,
do not apologize to them or anyone else for what you did! It is wrong
for anyone, especially a 6 year old kid, to disrespect you like that. If
you let them know that and their poor little feelings get hurt, then that's
just too bad.

                                    Robert

[45-70.gov]

copy all these  replies

and  give  them to  the  kids parrents 

buy  them  a parrenting  book

it  will  save  the tax payers  in  the long run

[CannonKrazy]

Telling them once should have been enough but then after the second time the real parents should have reinforced what you said. Telling a kid four times enough is enough should be more than ample warning for the parents to step in. You did no wrong and no apology is necessary.

[powderman]

TEDDY. The only thing you did wrong was saying it 5 X. Say it twice, then do what you did. Tell them you refuse to be disrespected in that way. Like somebody else said, take em fishing, but make them behave. POWDERMAN. 

[victorcharlie]

That's why adults shouldn't grab a$$ with kids.  In a way, you encouraged them and then when you got tired and told them to quit they weren't ready to quit.

I've been in this situation a few times and quite frankly I no longer rough house with the grand kids because of similar circumstances.

The days of other people correcting kids who don't belong to them is now politically incorrect.  IMO that's why we have a bunch of out of control brats making our lives miserable.

My daughter got mad at me for spanking the grandson for stuffing a paper towel in the gas heater.  He could of burned the house down and hurt himself so and I wanted to make sure he didn't do that again.  You would have thought the world ended.....never mind I swatted her little bottom, in her eyes she's the only one allowed to spank.

[Rustyinfla]

   There is nothing wrong with the kids. They are doing what they are allowed to do all the time. They are a product of poor parenting.

[teddy12b]

I can't tell you all just how glad I am to read everything you all said.  I'm going to see them again tomorrow and maybe everything will have calmed down by then..... but I doubt it.  God had better be on my side if either of those kids has a red mark or bruise, because momma bear will be back on the high horse.

The funny thing is that I talk with all their friends who have kids and for some reason about half of their friends feel like they need to tell me about how out of control those kids are.  I just wish they understood how many people think their discipline is a joke.

[DalesCarpentry]

I am not sure how to put this and not come out looking like an ass. I have never beat my daughter but did spank her as a child. There was one time I left a hand print on the back of her thigh below her but. That happened when she moved. I think that was the last time I spanked her. I felt terrible for a long time over it. I have never had any desire to hurt my daughter. I was spanked the whole time growing up and it never damaged me any. My point is my daughter knows beyond a dought I love her. She also has a small fear of me. She knows if she does wrong I will put her in line in a second. She has not tested me in years. She knows when I raise my voice I am serious and she listens then for sure. I am not a hard ass and do not abuse my daughter by any sense of the word but she knows not to push me. A little fear from your child is not necessarily a bad thing. She is to old to spank now. She is 12 but she does respect me. Dale

[SM Bob]

Teddy,
Unfortunately in this day and age I see way too many kids
out of control. Their parents many times go about parenting
the wrong way in my opinion. They don't want to have their kids
mad at them. They don't want to be the "bad guy". So they
let these kids do whatever they want. This is recipe for
disaster. I have seen it time and again. Kids will not respect
their parents if they are raised like this. They end up getting
into all kinds of trouble later on in their lives because of this.
Sometimes being a parent means you have to instill discipline,
teach them right from wrong, and good manners. Sometimes
it means you will have to make decisions that are unpopular.
Sometimes it also necessary to get their attention with a few
whacks on the behind when they get out of line. That's all
part of being a responsible parent.  It takes a lot of love,
sacrifice, and hard work to be a real parent to your kids. Sure,
it is anything but easy and it will give you a few gray hairs,
but it is way worth it.

                            Robert
 
 

[teddy12b]

I appreciate all the help and support everyone I really do.  My biggest fear is that my three week old daughter is going to have these kids as her role models and I don't look forward to that.

[Graybeard]

I agree with VictorCharlie on one main point in which I think you erred to begin with in the wrestling/rough housing with the kids to begin with. Yeah I guess at one time or another we've all done it but I think it is a MAJOR mistake.

Children are not adults and adults are not children and both need to clearly understand and respect the difference. That type of activity is NOT in my opinion appropriate in mixed age (adult/child) situations. Leave that to other kids and do adult things with them.

Take them hunting, fishing, to a movie or whatever but wrestling and rough play of that sort to me is just not a proper thing for adults to mix with children. Beyond that I see no particular fault in what you did. BUT you need realize one thing in today's sue crazy society and with the child abuse laws in place. Laying hands on any other person's child or your own in front of witnesses is a sure fire set up for more trouble than you can get yourself out of.

[teddy12b]

I understand what you guys are saying about not rough housing with the kids.  I'm just going to have to tell my nephew & his cousin that we can't do that anymore.  I'll try to find something I can do with him, but I don't know what that's going to be.  They don't behave in movie theatres, or anywhere public.  I'm not sure how much they'll like fishing, but I can try that in the spring.  We'll see.

[Land_Owner]

Kids at that age cry for the stupidest reasons...sometimes for just being overworked and tired.  The only one affected by their crying is their Mother - from whom all discipline flows.  She's the alpha female.  Mess with her kids and you get her furry.  And don't even tell her that she is wrong or her kids are undisciplined.  Then you are wrong (whether you are or not).  Every father knows this.

Forget about this incident.  Just don't go there mentally anymore.  Time heals all family wounds - and this one sure is insignificant.  For goodness sake, it isn't like you broke an arm or threw a kid across a room - did you?  Reflecting on what you "could have done" or what you "should have done" is a continuing waste of your time.

If any family member insists on reflecting on it - ignore them.  Just walk away.  You will be the bigger man for it and in time they will forget about it too.

By the way, if you are physically able, don't stop playing with and exerting adult supervision over those kids.  You may be their favorite uncle in time as a result of your interaction.  It is impossible to know which interactions are the ones that will stick in their memories forever.  I know my favorite uncle rough housed with us as kids.  He made family gatherings fun since everyone else was ignoring us.  Adults ignoring children is the stuff that gives kids the liberty to get into trouble in the first place.

[ironglow]

Teddy;
   First off; you are not alone in your puzzlement. Being a senior, I can attest to the deterioration of discipline among American children..and around the world, I presume. When it got to the point where you had to tell the boys the second time, where was Mama Bear or any other adult more closely connected with those children? She/they should have been right there saying, "Boys, Uncle Teddy said he is done, you had better listen!". Where was Daddy Bear..off drinking a Latte somewhere? He should have set them straight, if Mama reneged in her duties!
   Unfortunately, we live in an age of PC..political correctness (i.e. Partially Conscious ), so your best bet for the time being is to let this blow over..because it could become very sticky if Mama Bear decided to b e difficult over a bruised arm or ego.
   When I bred and competed with dogs, we used to call this malady "kennel blindness". Some folks thought their dogs were perfect and thus, superior to other "common" dogs. Unfortunately, children are not dogs; a bummer dog can be passed around until it eventually ends up in a shelter..to be euthanized. Children brought up that way often have a miserable life, because the big world out there is not "kennel blind" to little Johnnie's faults and won't put up with them. His friends (if he has any), will simply be "users", preying upon his desperation or loneliness.
   The greatest child-rearing book ever written (the Bible) says; "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly"  (Proverbs 13:24 NKJV)    
   You framed your question wrongly..in today's culture, we cannot consider disciplining other's children...and that is exactly why there is so much lawlessness in our nation today. If the parent doesn't provide discipline, the child will not know it until he/she ends up in the disciplinary system (prison).
   I would shy away from any real contact with these children; then...if in the future, the parent asks..that is your opening to explain (politely) just how the child is being prepared for failure. 
     

[LaOtto222]

I witnessed a similar situation at a family gathering. I have a niece and she had two young boys some where around 5 and 6 at the time. They were unruly to say the least. I tried to keep my distance as much as possible. My brother-in-law really had no children of his own. He did, but he was in the military, a career man and really was not around them very much. Any way the two boys started to rough house with him and he did not like it. He told them so, very loudly and sternly. Well the two boys started to cry and Mom and her Mother (my sister-in-law) were very upset about it. They did not demand an apology, which they knew they were not going to get, but told him they were pi**ed about a grown man brow beating their little darlings. The family gathering broke up shortly afterward. I think Mom had no control over these two boys and should have had them under control. I think she should have stepped in and handled the situation herself. But that did not happen. Over time the boys have gotten better, almost not bad to have around and the wounds between Bother - Sister - Niece have healed a little, but there is still a problem there, just does not boil to the top and is getting better over as time goes on. My Brother-in-law has since steered clear of the two boys as much as possible and the boys have gotten better. In a Mothers eyes the boys were just being boys; free spirits if you will and no one has the right to discipline her boys.

Rough housing with young boys is a recipe for disaster. Especially if they have little discipline to start with. They just do not have a clue that when it is over, it is over.

I do not think you were wrong, but man; it is not good either. If the parent can not control the boys, you are not going to do it either and bring down the wrath of Mom if you try. Do not say something that even remotely resembles - I am sorry you cannot control your kids - it will start all over again.

When I get in to those situations, where young children are driving me nuts, I get up and take a walk, go home or just leave the room - just get away. For the most part, I do not care about being a good Uncle, I do what I know is right. I have my brother-in-law that everyone hates so much so I just fall in the middle some where. The only time I see these boys is at family gatherings and occasionally when we visit my wife's parents; so I do not care if they like me or not. I still just get away if it gets too much for me and let the chips fall where they may. The boys have some how gotten better, not sure how. But if they do give too much grief, I go for a walk. By the time I get back the boys have found a new interest.

[Mikey]

I like 45-70s response - get a dog training book and give it to the mother.  If that doesn't work, use the dog training book on her. 

Or, watch the Dog Whisperer on friday nights on the National Geographic channel with Cesar Milan and recommend she watch it too.  You can easily train dogs and kids the same way.

Or, you can dredge up the old South Park episode where they parody Cesar by having him train Cartman.  Now that was funny. 

Or, if you attend another dysfunctional family function you can always call out in a loud voice - Mothers, time to control your off-spring again before cryin' time begins, that is if you're capable of contyrolling your children..............  Few people get the message faster than when they are being insulted and few people become more insulted than those who are being told their children are misbehaving.  I love this psychology crap.  Mikey.

[ironglow]

Doctor Spock..is a crock !!

[Dee]

I used to tell my children that when THEIR children were acting up in stores, that the parent saw it business as usual. Everyone else saw a brat!
My grandchildren on one side (my son's children) almost never act up, because of their mother's discipline. My grandchildren on the other side (my daughters) have been at times little monsters. They listened to know one but me. Their mother got into the habit of counting to three. When she was warning them that she was going to count to three, I suggested she count to one-hundred, so the kid could finish what it was doing without being interupted so many times. Not FUNNY!
To make a long story short. My grand kids thru the information source of their mothers and fathers, knew that I would put up with no non-sense. Rough house with them? Of course I did. We had a ball. But quit meant quit. How did I get away with this? By meaning what I said, and my own children seeing their kids as imperfect, and knowing that if they didn't do something I would. Alternative? Don't bring them around if you don't want them to behave.
As far as an uncle disciplining kids? Depends on the situation.
My advice to YOU? Don't do ANYTHING with the kids anymore for a while, and tell ANYONE whom asks why. INCLUDING THE KIDS. To loose a fun time with an adult most times is more conducive to better behavior, when they know WHY they lost it. But that's just me.

[Dee]

Doctor Spock..is a crock !!

No Dr. Spock is not a crock! He is an idiot.

His own son committed suicide. Wonder where the Doc dropped the ball there?

[magooch]

This thread should be mandatory reading for all mothers.

In my experience, all kids are not the same, but my general rule is that you can't be a kid's best friend like the saps on TV try to depict.  You've got to be the adult and demand respect.  However, the lines have been drawn whether we like it, or not.  I don't touch anyone else's little darlings--period.

My wife was rather typical about being protective of our own kids when I would discipline them, but finally she came to understand that I was right.  I seldom had to lay a hand on either of them, but when I did, I did it only in anger, which is directly opposed to what the Spockers preach.  I wanted them to know I was mad as hell when I had to control them and that they didn't want to make Dad mad.

All that said, there is nothing that guarantees outcome.  We raised both of our kids the same.  My daughter came out a very successful business woman who spoils her own kids and my son came out a total loser.

[JonnyC]

The fact that they are only 6 and 8 and one has already been asked to leave the school implies something is majorly wrong. Since you like to be with them, maybe you can set the rules before you begin an activity. If they don't listen, just leave the area for a few minuets. That should stop the unwanted behavior without getting any adults upset..

[deltecs]

For my own 2 cent opinion, is that all commands from me to my children were not open for negotiation and no subsequent warnings were or are given before correction.  If that correction was corporal by a smack on the behind or sternly getting their attention by holding both shoulders and looking them in the eye, so be it.  I've told my children many times that I am not their friend but their parent and it is my duty to raise them with the moral and ethical values of my ancestors and parents.  I owe that to my country and family.  That does not mean that we don't get along.  It means that these children were disciplined and responsible for their actions as adults later in life.  Neither of my 2 children have ever given my wife and I cause for disappointment in their adolescent or adult life and we get along fabulously.  My wife and I set our children up in an apartment 750 miles from our residence in the 10th grade, so they could go to a public school and obtain the necessary social skills not available with home schooling in the bush.  Each was independently on their own without parental supervision and we saw them about 3 times a year thereafter until graduation.  They did their own shopping, cooking, laudry, and found mass transit their only means of travel.  We paid the bills, but they did the work very responsibly.  Neither was ever in any trouble.  So our method must have worked regardless of different expert opinions.  My directives were carried out in the apartment just as if they were living at home.  I couldn't be more proud of them.  And now they are raising their children just as we did with excellent results. 

[BBF]

No insult intended here but I got to ask.
Why would anyone want to be around those kind of kids anyway? Mine knew better then to push their luck and also knew that "granpa wouldn't put up with any crap.

When the grandchildren were small my free time was precious enough not for me to waste it by being aggravated from them so contact was very limited.

I never laid a hand on them because it would not have been just a little smack.

BTW. When I hear a father calling his offspring "Little buddy" or similar I need to walk away.