Author Topic: Rifle Die recommendation please  (Read 1582 times)

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Offline Tuckerp229

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Rifle Die recommendation please
« on: December 27, 2008, 05:39:39 PM »
Have any of you experienced reloaders any strong and supported opinions about which brand of dies to buy for bottle necked rifle calibers?  all the companies brag about being the best, ie. Lee brags about "supporting the whole case and centering the bullet during bullet insertion and when crimping", many claim that Hornady is nearly akin to the more expensive competition micrometer dies and can be adjusted easier, and on  and on.
Since it is less expensive to buy even a more expensive set of dies once than two or three sets of the same caliber in search of the best one.....what say you?  Who makes the better dies?

Offline Tom W.

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 06:15:48 PM »
Redding.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2008, 06:16:56 PM »
I've not bought anything but Hornady in several years now. I prefer them over all others. Their bullet seater die especially with their Micro-Just seater addition is the only way I seat bullets these days.

I realize it's a real personal thing and I own dies from most all the name makers to include RCBS, Lyman, Redding and Lee but those were bought long ago and all the new ones in the last few years have been Hornady.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Kurt L

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2008, 06:33:32 PM »
I also like Hornady.
I have Lee,rcbs,dies also.

To add to bills post the Hornady has a very nice tapered expander
that works great plus its even  better if you start forming brass the Hornady
is great for this.example 30-06 brass necked up to make 35 whelen or 30-06
brass necked up to make 338-06 etc.another example is 375 winchester
necked down to make 30-30 win. the long taper just works slick
KURT LGo TO RIFLE RED RYDER SUPER MAG CARBINE

Offline Ladobe

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2008, 07:46:40 PM »
Kind of depends on what the useage will be.

The guy who reloads a dozen or two 30-06 cartridges for his deer rifle once a year and only shoots 100 yards can certainly get by with $12 Lee RGB dies.

The gent who is into very long range shooting at very small targets and shoots hundreds/thousands of rounds a year can better justify buying the very best dies available.

Everyone else in between can usually get by just fine with any of the better made dies.

I've used most... still have a lot of Redding, a few RCBS, Hornady, Forster, Wilson and Neil Jones.   Do most of my reloading now with custom hand dies though a machinist friend makes for me.
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Offline Czech_too

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 11:11:38 PM »
For a bottleneck cartridge, I would have to go with Hornady.  I like the sliding sleeve used in the bullet seating die, feel that it helps in aligning the bullet better, more concentric, than the seating plugs do on most of the other brands.  I use them in 6.5x55, 8x57.  Would have bought them for the 7.5x55 Swiss but the Reddings were recommended for it.
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 01:26:37 AM »
I have RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Lee and Pacific dies.  I don't think any of them are bad but, these days when I buy new dies, I buy Redding.

Lee dies only have a 2 year warranty which to me says something about the confidence or lack thereof in their product.

Offline Luckyducker

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 02:20:25 AM »
I have used many different brands of dies for bottle neck cases, such as Lee, RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, and Redding.  They will all load good ammunition, but I will not buy another Lee die.  Their dies are inferior in design and materials and bring to my mind a professional mechanic using tools made in China.  I prefer Redding first and Hornady second and must confess that I have never used Lyman dies so have no first hand experience with them.  Other than staying away from Lee Precision I don't think you can go wrong with any of the others mentioned, but that's just my opinion.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 03:03:52 AM »
I've been useing Lee dies for years with not one single problem. I like the new hornady dies thou I may only buy them from now on. I also use RCBS.
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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 05:13:12 AM »
Another Redding fan here.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline FW Conch

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 06:30:54 AM »
If your shooting & reloading "account" looks like mine LEE will serve you just fine, & "I believe" the 2yr
warranty is consistent with the bargain price they are sold @. However, my BIL has more to spend than me
& he has RCBS everything. I don't think I could break his "Rock Chucker" if I hooked the Dodge up to the
handle !  There's nothing wrong Redding & GB has got me interested in that Hornady "seater".  I guess it's
kinda like a scope - you won't regret getting the best you can afford !  Good Luck  :)   Jim
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 06:42:07 AM »
As Jim said , buy the best you can afford , I have loaded over 20,000 rounds of 223 in a set of Lee RGB dies without the first blip of a problem , have had to send back a Forster and a Lyman but all in all , none were to the point that I would say Never Again to any brand .

Like GB , most of my new sets have been Hornady , the biggest reason is that my smith that does over 1/2 of my chambers used them as blanks for his wildcats , that and I just love the sliding sleeve on the seater die .  ;D

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Offline Savage_99

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2008, 08:08:56 AM »
I prefer RCBS dies where FL sizing of bottlenecked cases are required.   The RCBS FL die has an air vent hole to prevent dents and some other brands do not.

For instance Redding does not bother to put in an air vent hole.

Get RCBS.  They stand behind their products also.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2008, 09:15:30 AM »
REDDING!!

 Like most re-loaders who have been at it for a while I have all manufactures of dies, even some obscure ones like Forster, CH & Herters dies. I'll never buy another FL LEE set and Hornady is not much better. I do like some of what those dies have but as a whole they are not up to RCBS, LYMAN or REDDING. RCBS, LYMAN and REDDING have all been top notch. With many, many,
Stimpy gave you GREAT advice, buy the best you can afford!!

CW
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Offline Kurt L

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2008, 10:11:38 AM »
could you If you don't mind explain why you feel the Hornady dies are a poor choice
and many others love them?



REDDING!!

 Like most re-loaders who have been at it for a while I have all manufactures of dies, even some obscure ones like Forster, CH & Herters dies. I'll never buy another FL LEE set and Hornady is not much better. CW
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Offline BBF

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2008, 11:31:16 AM »
I'll tell you that the fancy expander ball on the Hornady die is not the answer to everything. I had one of them that even with inside neck lube was almost impossible to lower the case. It got so bad with that expander rod sliding down with the case that I needed to spotweld it in place.
From now on, no dies for me that do not have threaded stems.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2008, 11:35:59 AM »
could you If you don't mind explain why you feel the Hornady dies are a poor choice
and many others love them?



REDDING!!

 Like most re-loaders who have been at it for a while I have all manufactures of dies, even some obscure ones like Forster, CH & Herters dies. I'll never buy another FL LEE set and Hornady is not much better. CW

 I have three sets, none of them have a very good polish on the insides and leave scoring on cases loaded with them. I HATE there compression style nuts for holding the de-capping stems and there supposed unbreakable de-caping pins have been broken at least twice. The locking rings are cheap and unrepeatable. I have bought replacements for all but the 380acp set, as I dont use it very much anymore. The 45-70 set wears RCBS locking rings and the de-capping stem is so tight I doubt anyone will ever get if off it it broke again.

 But, in fairness, I haven't bought a set in about 8 years, so if they changed or up graded to eliminate these problems, I do not know.

CW
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Offline PlacitasSlim

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2008, 12:43:50 PM »
I have always used RCBS and have never been disappointed ;D

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2008, 01:05:09 PM »
Quote
I'll tell you that the fancy expander ball on the Hornady die is not the answer to everything. I had one of them that even with inside neck lube was almost impossible to lower the case. It got so bad with that expander rod sliding down with the case that I needed to spotweld it in place.
From now on, no dies for me that do not have threaded stems.

I never particularly cared for the manner in which Hornady chose to hold their expander balls but so long as you take the die apart and properly clean it and put it back together tight it will not slip.

Still they have seen the light and changed back to threaded stems like everyone else. They thought they had a better mouse trap and would pull customers with it. They found out it was not as popular as they had hoped for and made the switch.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline james25889

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2008, 04:26:26 PM »
all my die sets are rcbs and ive never had a problem

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2008, 05:51:31 AM »
The vast majority of my die sets are Redding.  However, I have one or two Lee's and I think a couple of RCBS.

Other then a small hiccup with the Lee's "unbreakable" depriming rod, I really don't have any complaints.  I have always wanted to get a run out gauge and do some tests though!   ;)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2008, 06:17:11 AM »
Quote
Other then a small hiccup with the Lee's "unbreakable" depriming rod, I really don't have any complaints.  I have always wanted to get a run out gauge and do some tests though!


I just happen to have one in like new condition I've tried to sell at least a half dozen times via the Classifieds here. If you are serious about wanting one let me know. It's an RCBS.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2008, 07:41:38 AM »
Oooooh!   :o  Is that the RCBS Case Master Gauging Tool?  I'm interested!

WAITAMINUTE!   :P

<sigh> Here you go... giving me the means to use up even more of my limited free time... Did you ever stop to consider what would happen if I start checking neck thicknesses and find some horrible variance!?  Like .00005 or sumpin!  Next thing you know I'll be lookin for and buying neck turning stuff!  Bet you got some of that laying around also!   :(  So I buy that and the next thing you know I'll be buying a lathe and attending classes to become a machinist which means I'll even have less time at home and my wife will probably divorce me and I'll give up 40 years in law enforcement/practice and take a low paying shop job, which means I won't be able to pay my bills and I'll have to file bankruptcy and end up an ol' drunk living on the street!   >:(  All this because YOU wanted to palm off something you don't need and everybody else is smart enough not to buy except me because I'm easy and you can get away with asking me to pay some exorbitant price!!!!   >:(

Uh, speaking of price... how much you want fer it?   ;D

PM enroute   ;)
Richard
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Offline wncchester

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2008, 09:52:08 AM »
It's all personal opinion and opinions vary.  A lot.  But, I just can't get myself into loyalty, or antithapy, of any inanimate objects.  Or brands. 

I have the advantage of over 40 years of loading with every current brand of dies except Dillion, including maybe 8-10 sets from makers that are no longer with us.  I find them different but they are all good IF we use and/or adjust them properly, bar none.  It is my considered apprasel, based on long use and a good concentricity gage, that, on average, there is as much difference between dies of the same maker as there is between makers.  Getting a die set that matches our chamber is a crap shoot and it has nothing to do with the die brand.

A few, mostly trivial, feature differencies in dies do exist.  Some folk prefer some features but that's just a personal thing, not a difference in quality, per se. 

Lock rings differ but they all work fine IF we use them correctly. 

Seaters have slightly different designs but no one consistanly stands above the others on target!  That includes Hormady's short sliding sleeve design.  That sleeve can make it a little easier to install the bullet but it offers nothing for loaded round concentricity.  Nor do it's near competitors such as the very expensive RCBS "competition" dies, improve on that.

Micrometer heads on seaters offer a single advantage; it's easier to change a specific seating depth on a specific cartridge by a specific amount.  But exactly the same thing can be done on any conventional seater if we take our time and work carefully.  If we don't do that we won't be making precise ammo anyway, no matter the tools we use!

Dies come in two grades, first and second, and even then there is little actual difference on target, at least not directly attributable to the dies used.  Forster and Redding Competition/BR seater dies are tied for first place because of their near identical full case sliding sleeve design.  All of the others are tied for second place, including Lee.  No exceptions.  Well, except for personal opinions based on .... higher price or prettier external appearance, maybe?

Hornady copied Lee's excellant method of holding the decap/expander stem in a collet.  It's the best design going for holding the stem well centered in the die body.  Bu it IS neccesary to get that collet nut tight enough to hold it.  Seems many don't want to do that so Hornady recently added a nut to the top of the stem to prevent it from pulling out if the nut is too loose. 

Almost all "scratching dies" are due to the owners running sandy, dirty brass through them.  That, and/or a lack of case lube resulting in brass galling onto the die walls.  At least I have NEVER seen a new sizer from any maker that would scratch cases.  No argument if any of YOU got one that did, but even so the maker would surely stand behind the product if you returned it to them without further damage or few thousand of rounds of use.  Seems two years is plenty long enough for actual manufactoring defects to show up.  After that, user negligence SHOULD be at our own expense. 

Being foolish is always expensive.  There is nothing that some people can't break, including non-breakable decap pins.  Just a fact of life.  It seems some folks can damage an anvil with a silver spoon but that's not the anvils fault!   :D

Pick a die set, pay what ever it takes to make you feel comfortable.  What ever it is, know that you've got a "good" die brand and use it happily!  But it won't do a thing on a target that Lee's dies won't do, including long life.  Unless it's Redding or Foster and most guns - and shooters and reloaders - aren't good enough to see any difference even with them.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 10:10:15 AM »
it seems some folks can damage an anvil with a silver spoon but that's not the anvils fault! 

Yeah?  Well...  you ain't so cool!   :(  It was a stainless spoon!  So there!  8)  Miss the anvil though... day sho be 'spensive to replace nowadays...  :-\  The new Lee die was cheap though...

 ;) ;D
Richard
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Offline wncchester

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 10:32:06 AM »
"Yeah?  Well...  you ain't so cool!"

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!   I've bent and broken my share too, that's part of why I'm comfortable saying being dum hurts!    :D

PS. - Did you ever find a climbing tree stand you like?
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2008, 10:44:18 AM »
Not yet, but with only a couple a weekends left in the season I'll start seriously looking in a few months.  :)
Richard
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Offline Ladobe

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2008, 12:04:59 PM »
Quote
Other then a small hiccup with the Lee's "unbreakable" depriming rod, I really don't have any complaints.  I have always wanted to get a run out gauge and do some tests though!


I just happen to have one in like new condition I've tried to sell at least a half dozen times via the Classifieds here. If you are serious about wanting one let me know. It's an RCBS.

Ditto that one Bill.   Ran a RCBS Case Master Gauging Tool ANIB here with no luck either at a give away price.   Then I ran it for a day on another site and had several folks stepping all over themselves to see who could buy it first.   Guess most of the reloaders here don't feel they have a need to check run out, no matter what brand of dies they are using.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2008, 12:50:53 PM »
Wal just dang Richard it tweren't my intention to cuz yew to take up drinking er to git a divorce or nuttin lak thet. PM returned. Hurry up and buy it afore ya are broke and drunk and divorced and all that other stuff ya think is gonna happen.  ;D



Oooooh!   :o  Is that the RCBS Case Master Gauging Tool?  I'm interested!

WAITAMINUTE!   :P

<sigh> Here you go... giving me the means to use up even more of my limited free time... Did you ever stop to consider what would happen if I start checking neck thicknesses and find some horrible variance!?  Like .00005 or sumpin!  Next thing you know I'll be lookin for and buying neck turning stuff!  Bet you got some of that laying around also!   :(  So I buy that and the next thing you know I'll be buying a lathe and attending classes to become a machinist which means I'll even have less time at home and my wife will probably divorce me and I'll give up 40 years in law enforcement/practice and take a low paying shop job, which means I won't be able to pay my bills and I'll have to file bankruptcy and end up an ol' drunk living on the street!   >:(  All this because YOU wanted to palm off something you don't need and everybody else is smart enough not to buy except me because I'm easy and you can get away with asking me to pay some exorbitant price!!!!   >:(

Uh, speaking of price... how much you want fer it?   ;D

PM enroute   ;)


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Rifle Die recommendation please
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2008, 01:48:31 PM »
it tweren't my intention to cuz yew to take up drinking ...

Don't worry yousef none 'bout that!  You 'bout 50 odd years to late!   ;D
Richard
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Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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