357max recoil compared to 30/30

[revbc]

Those of you that have reamed the 357mag to max, how is the recoil compared to a 30/30 factory load?  I'm trying to decide between the 357 or the 30/30.

I don't need either one.................it's not an addiction, it's in the DNA

Bobby

[R.W.Dale]

roughly the same

but remember the max can still shoot .38's

[Badnews Bob]

IMHO the max dosn't have near the recoil of the .30-30, and with 148gr wadcutters in it, it dosen't recoil at all. I think it has a very unique sound also.

[cwlongshot]

I agree with Bob, the recoil from my full house Maxi loads is definately less than the 30-30 loads to reg pressure.

 From a rifle/carbine many people compair the 357 MAGNUMS performance to that od the 30-30... The Maxi far surpasses the std 357mag in every way.   Its everybit a 35 Remington.

CW

[petemi]

What's the difference, neither one is a .416?  I suspect most of us can handle either the .30 or the Max.  I guess I should be more polite and ask why it's important.  I've got maybe forty some odd rifles and they all shoot and recoil in their own way.  So what.  That's why you have more than one old shotgun.  I don't believe I'd ever make a decision on buying a certain caliber based on recoil as opposed to another.

Two friends came here a while back with a Rem 700 300 Win mag to sight in.  The guy that owned it was ready to send the rifle back.  He couldn't hit anything with it.  Bullets all over the place.  John and I took it, dialed it in and shot 1" groups.  Put it back in his hands, and again, nothing.  He was afraid of the rifle.  I didn't think it recoiled badly at all.  The owner is a big rangy dude almost twice my size.  I'm sure he was pre-sold on the MAGNUM idea and it was going to be punishing.

For this reason, I firmly believe that 40 percent of recoil is muzzle blast, 40 percent in your head and 20 percent felt recoil.

HAPPY NEW YEAR


Pete

[mechanic]

Pete, you are exactly correct.  Much of the recoil is in our head.  I have a Ruger 44 mag. that I can shoot very well for several shots, then I begin to flinch.  It doesn't hurt me at all, but its just a muzzle blast thing I guess.  The perception is usually worse than the reality.  Then there are the real punishers.  416 Rigby comes to mind.

I wouldn't think a 30/30 or a 357 should bother anyone, unless the muzzle blast is extreme, then the old mind might play tricks on him.
Ben

[haroldclark]

Pete, The following loads present recoil that is so similar with velocities and close bullet weight.  I have owned a 357 Maximum in a 14" contender.  Great cartridge, but the recoil in the Contender got to me as my wrists aged.

My findings on recoil are 357 Maximum = 7.00 ft lbs of recoil energy (not bad in a 7 pound rifle)
and the 30/30  in a rifle of 7 pounds is 7.51 ft. lbs of recoil energy.

Both bullets are traveling at 1840 ft per second.  The muzzle blast from the 357 Max will be slightly more with my loading than the 30/30.  The 30/30 will burn 99.9% of the powder in the barrel before the bullet exits.  The 357 Max will burn 91.5%.

Both of the loadings can be increased and the recoil will increase incrementally, but both will be about the same.  I preferred the 200 grain bullet in my 357 Maximum.  That Contender would shoot under an inch at 50 yards with home cast bullets.

Harold

[revbc]

Thanks for the input.  As far as recoil goes, I'm not that sensitive but if the max is a lot less it would be a selling point.  Just trying to decide what caliber  I want to try next.  I'm even looking at the 44mag maybe reamed to the 445, it would be legal for our primitive weapon season, whereas the 357 or 30/30 would not.

Bobby

[Victor3]

What's the difference, neither one is a .416?  I suspect most of us can handle either the .30 or the Max.  I guess I should be more polite and ask why it's important. 

 Some people (myself included) would just rather have lower recoil if its possible for the requirements of the day. I've always done well with heavy-recoiling rifles, but I can't say it's all that pleasant for me anymore.

 100% of my shooting being for pleasure, I've come to enjoy seeing a bullet hit the target through the scope once in a while, and going home without a bruised shoulder.

 Getting old, I guess...

[petemi]

I hear ya about the "old" part.  I guess that's why I'm trying to enjoy all my guns while I still can.

[LaOtto222]

I do not think there much difference at all in the recoil. Neither one is very high. If you do not reload, I would most certainly go with the 30-30. If you do reload, it is a toss up. If most of your shooting is going to be under 125 yards or so and you want to use the same gun for plinkin' then I would get a 357 and ream it to Max. If you are going to get some shots in the 200-250 yard range, get the 30-30. Good Shooting and Good Luck

[Blackhawker]

I realize that your question is about recoil but you might consider other aspects when making your decision.  First off, I have shot both rounds from the same based rifle, that being a T/C with a 21 inch barrel.  On average, the 30-30 might have a slight heavier recoil (maybe depending on individual loads) but it's overall a light recoiling round and nothing to really consider if choosing one caliber or the other.   

Instead of considering recoil, you might consider performance, especially if you're going to reload these rounds.  I assume you're considering shooting these from a single shot rifle, otherwise you wouldn't be comparing the 357 max to the 30-30.   That being the case, if you reload 30-30's with pointed bullets, you will increase the performance of the round dramatically.  So, overall, you should get much better accuracy and performance from loading the 30-30 with pointed bullets (not to be loaded in lever actions!) and it will certainly outperform the 357 max in that capacity.  If you really want to load a straight walled cartridge and not worry about bottle necked rounds, or if you just want to purchase factory ammo similar to the 357, you might look into the 375 Winchester.  If you're a reloader, the 375 Winchester or 38-55 would probably be a better choice than the 357 max as well. 

I'm not sure what you're looking to do with the rounds but if your considering accuracy and performance, I think you'd be better off with the 30-30 or maybe reloading a 38-55.  In the end, isn't accuracy and performance what we all are looking for when choosing a caliber to shoot?

[petemi]

The .357 Max. gives you 3 choices of ammo, meaning caliber.  Does the .30-30 or any others??

I've got a box of Hornady .30-30 LEs in the gun room that I haven't, for a number of reasons, tried.  I bought them because of the superior performance of the LEs in my .45-70.  Perhaps they'll modify my opinion of the .30-30.  I'd never try a shot with mine over 200 yards.  I can make it hit, I'm sure, but where it hits, and what's left in killing energy are the questions.  A dozen years ago I went to the .308 for just those reasons. 

Pete

[mike@nds]

Those of you that have reamed the 357mag to max, how is the recoil compared to a 30/30 factory load?  I'm trying to decide between the 357 or the 30/30.

I don't need either one.................it's not an addiction, it's in the DNA

Bobby

I like pistol caliber carbines because they have light recoil, and are just plain fun. Go with the .357, mine will be reamed soon.

That being said, if I need a "longer range" gun I certainly would not take a half step to 30-30.

[cwlongshot]

I realize that your question is about recoil but you might consider other aspects when making your decision.  First off, I have shot both rounds from the same based rifle, that being a T/C with a 21 inch barrel.  On average, the 30-30 might have a slight heavier recoil (maybe depending on individual loads) but it's overall a light recoiling round and nothing to really consider if choosing one caliber or the other.   

Instead of considering recoil, you might consider performance, especially if you're going to reload these rounds.  I assume you're considering shooting these from a single shot rifle, otherwise you wouldn't be comparing the 357 max to the 30-30.  That being the case, if you reload 30-30's with pointed bullets, you will increase the performance of the round dramatically.  So, overall, you should get much better accuracy and performance from loading the 30-30 with pointed bullets (not to be loaded in lever actions!) and it will certainly outperform the 357 max in that capacity.  If you really want to load a straight walled cartridge and not worry about bottle necked rounds, or if you just want to purchase factory ammo similar to the 357, you might look into the 375 Winchester.  If you're a re loader, the 375 Winchester or 38-55 would probably be a better choice than the 357 max as well. 

I'm not sure what you're looking to do with the rounds but if your considering accuracy and performance, I think you'd be better off with the 30-30 or maybe reloading a 38-55.  In the end, isn't accuracy and performance what we all are looking for when choosing a caliber to shoot?

DISCLAIMER: Bare with me I'm having a bit of fun...

Blackhawker..... I am stunned!! Not to take away from the greatness that is the 375, 38-55 and 30-30, but they are no 357Maxi!! I also fee compelled to state the obvious....  {Pause for suspense}... You are NOT a 357maxi owner/shooter as you haven't (yet) seen the light!!!  Again being sarcastic, of coarse, so forgive me, but you've slanted the caliber I love, so I must respond!!

  First off, as Pete already posted none of the others will work with three different bullets. The 357 MAXIMUM will safely fire the 357MAG AND the 38SPL calibers.
1) The 375Win is only good for the 375 Win. (NO ITS NOT OK to shoot the 38-55 in one. NO MATTER what you have read!!)
2) The 38-55 is only a 38-55.
3) The 30-30 is still a 30-30 and BTW... NO pointed bullet will transform this caliber into a 250 yard deer shooter!! Also, pointed bullets are no more or less accurate than any other design!! They DO retain velocity and energy better over distance. But none of these calibers are considered a long range proposition, so the benefits of pointed bullets are minimal.

 Now I to really like the 375 Win, I have no less than four guns chambered for it. Its recoil is substantially above any of the others you mentioned. Its a great caliber, but the intent of the original post was a recoil comparison between the maxi and the 30-30. The 375 Win its OUT!!!

 I also really like the 38-55. I have two of these and will not even venture into saying thing opposing what this caliber has done or can do. But again, the the intent of this post was recoil and the OP never mentioned the 38-55 so it to is OUT!!! Clouding the waters with other choices, no matter how good, must end here!!  {Sorry, I'm getting carried away...  }

 Back to the numbers... The 30-30 is ADVERTISED to reach 2400 with a 150 gr bullet and 2200 with a 170. We all KNOW it wont even from a 24" barrel!! 2250 and 2050 are MUCH closer!!
 The Maxi is basically a pistol round, so all the published data out there is from a 14" barrel or less. I have a chrono. I am a safe and accomplished re loader. My loads from a 21" H&R 158 will SURPASS the 30-30 figures, even with HEAVER BULLETS!!! The Hornady 158FP XTP and H4227 powder have reached just OVER 2400fps. The Hornady 180 SSP and 1680 powder have reached 2200 FPS. I have loaded the 170 GD too, but do not have chrono numbers. (At least I cannot find or remember what they where.  ) But based on what the 180 did, its safe to assume it will surpass the 2200 of the 180. Lets not muddy the waters with anything about loading the 30-30 "up" as its loaded lighter than what modern steel can withstand. That's NOT an option here. Also lets forget about the afore mentioned pointed bullets, as both the maxi and 30-30 have flat/RN designs. Energy figures will also more or less be comparative. BUT the Maxi is a 35 caliber and the 30-30 a 30. So its larger frontal diameter will disrupt more flesh, making it a better, faster incapacating caliber. Its burning less powder at a higher pressure, its recoil will be faster, but less, than the slower, more powder in the 30-30 round.

 Finally, your final point, my maxi is at least as accurate as my 30-30 and because of the lighter recoil and better performance on game, the 357Maxi gets the nod for me. Just like you say:

In the end, isn't accuracy and performance what we all are looking for when choosing a caliber to shoot?

I have to agree, well said!!


Yes its close.. but the 357 maxi will have less recoil and that, is the inquiry of the OP, of this thread.

CW

[Badnews Bob]

You forgot CW they make pointy bullets for the max also. I like them big flat nose lead ones thou. I also shoot .360 DWs out of mine.

[Blackhawker]

GEEZ, Sorry for posting guys!!!  Should I get a cross and some nails for my offending you 357 max owners??  Who wants to put the first nail in?

I didn't realize that so many people take such personal offense to things here!  I guess I'll just keep my comments to myself from now on....which totally defeats the purpose of such forums, doesn't it?  I thought that people sharing their personal experiences with given firearms and calibers is helpful to someone who is asking a question about them and that's what such forums are all about.....but maybe I'm wrong?  Let's face it, NONE of us are experts here and never will be experts in every topic and therefore we must remember that the forum is based on opinions and personal experiences.

I must leave a comment or two for you CW.....since when does recoil have anything to do with accuracy?  To a seasoned shooter, recoil should have nothing, whatsoever, to do with accuracy.

Secondly, I never mentioned shooting a 38-55 from a 375 Winchester rifle.

Third, although the original question was referring to recoil and recoil alone, the question did not refer to what the shooter wanted out of his or her rifle......target shooting, hunting, plinking, cowboy type shooting, etc.  And if he/she was intending hunting, it also wasn't stated what type of quarry was to be hunted.  I don't know why you went off assuming we were all hunting here.  I also never mentioned any specific distances in my commentary nor did I mention hunting, however, I must say that pointed bullets on a 30-30 will transform it to a 250 yard prairie dog shooter....if we must mention distances.  Perhaps revbc was intending plinking or varmint hunting, but none of us will never know unless we ask.  Did you ever ask?  NO!  Instead you just spouted off protecting your "favorite 357 maxi" and gave stats relating strictly to what YOU probably intend to use YOUR rifle for.  (I will give you credit here however, the stats you gave are well stated and accurate)  Albeit that revbc did mention the primitive season in a second posting, revbc did rule out the use of the 30-30 and 357 as neither can be used for such hunting.  There ARE other uses for firearms other than hunting deer or large game or hunting at all.

If I may,...and bare with me, I'm just having fun here (as CW stated)..... I have a suggestion for those of you who take such personal offense to statements made in passing, either for or against your favorite things (rifles, calibers, loads, toys, BigWheel, G.I. Joe action figures, or whatever), perhaps you should form a "club" instead of using a forum like this.  By doing so, you'll be assured that no poster will say anything bad about your proverbial "wubby". 

[Default]

Bobby ,

  You hit the nail on the head ... Get a 44 , next to no recoil ,Baseball sized exit holes with factory softpoint fodder and your more likely to get a 44 mag pistol to match up with it versus a 30 30  or maxi pistol .. Nuff said


    Default

[cwlongshot]

Blackhawker,
 Did you not get my Pm's?

 Please be assured this was not a personal attack, that was not my intent and the reason for the PM before I posted. I for one, really do wish you would continue your postings. You are completely correct, this is a public forum and everyones opinion has merit and is welcomed. Please do not let my post in responce to yours deter you. That too is what a public forum is all about. I may have come across a bit strong, but as you said, my arguments where based in fact and I feel strongly about them.

GBO, IS a great place, where all opinions are valid and contribute to the OPs posting. (BTW, we DO have some experts!! )

CW

[revbc]

CW,
I took your post as all in fun.............many of us do have strong opinions about our guns!  I hope blackhawker will continue with us, as nothing was to be taken as a personal attack.

Default,
Love the 44mag, I have a Marlin lever that has never lost a deer in over 25 years of hunting.  If she drew blood, deer was in the freezer. 

As for what my intentions with the rifle are..........hmmm, just want something different.  Maybe a little deer hunting and paper punching.

Bobby

[Jimbo47]

I'm one of those who doesn't let recoil effect how I shoot.

If I'm shooting a hard "kicker" I'll just prepare myself, and use a proper hold, and concentrate on not reacting to the coming recoil, which isn't always as easy as it sounds, even though I know I've never been hurt, and I can take the punishment, but saying that, I like the idea of the scope not jumping up and being able to still see the target through the scope, long after the round has left the muzzle.

Lighter recoil guns are just more of a pleasure to shoot, so I understand the question, and it's one of the reasons I've chosen the .357 over my 30-30 safe queen, not that the fact it's a model 94 Winchester in pristine condition that is no longer made, that would have anything to do with it.....Or maybe it would, who knows?

I've got a 7mm mag. that drives tacks, but I hate to shoot it more than just a few times, but for a hunting rifle you only need one shot, and while shooting at game you never notice even the heaviest recoil loads.....But ?

All that said again, I still like those non kickers with my 22's as my go to fun guns.

All that rambling done, I'd go with the .357 where in this case less would be more!

[tn_junk]

With my .357 MAX Handi I can load super light 38 Special cast bullet loads and pop varmits around the house without bothering the neighbors, or load up a full case of H110 and a 180 grain Hornady SSP bullet and drop deer with the MAX at 150 yards.
Not really an option with either the .30-30 or 44/445.

alan

[Winter Hawk]

Hey, it's a Handi we're talking about, ain't it?  In that case, why not get the .30-30, then send it in for the .357 barrel and you can make your own determination as to which is better!

-WH-

[PHATINJUN]

Pete that 40% in my head convinced me I didn't like that 20% tearin my shoulder apart . It took 2 of my buddies help sighting my 300 in I could hit with it but it hit me harder more than I would ever need... it went by by, Kurt

[cwlongshot]

CW,
I took your post as all in fun.............many of us do have strong opinions about our guns!  I hope blackhawker will continue with us, as nothing was to be taken as a personal attack.

Default,
Love the 44mag, I have a Marlin lever that has never lost a deer in over 25 years of hunting.If she drew blood, deer was in the freezer. 

As for what my intentions with the rifle are..........hmmm, just want something different.  Maybe a little deer hunting and paper punching.

Bobby

 Bobby,
  Thank you sir!!  That's how I intended it to be read, A fun responce, with the facts.

 I don't really know why, but the 44 mag never really caught my eye. I LOVE the 45COLT loaded to approximate the Mags ballistics. So I KNOW it works very well and I know many many people love theres. Go figure...

CW

[tallyho]

In my humble opinion the only one who made a neutral attempt to answer the original question was (ta-ra, fanfare please..)
 

Pete, The following loads present recoil that is so similar with velocities and close bullet weight.  I have owned a 357 Maximum in a 14" contender.  Great cartridge, but the recoil in the Contender got to me as my wrists aged.

My findings on recoil are 357 Maximum = 7.00 ft lbs of recoil energy (not bad in a 7 pound rifle)
and the 30/30  in a rifle of 7 pounds is 7.51 ft. lbs of recoil energy.

Both bullets are traveling at 1840 ft per second.  The muzzle blast from the 357 Max will be slightly more with my loading than the 30/30.  The 30/30 will burn 99.9% of the powder in the barrel before the bullet exits.  The 357 Max will burn 91.5%.

Both of the loadings can be increased and the recoil will increase incrementally, but both will be about the same.  I preferred the 200 grain bullet in my 357 Maximum.  That Contender would shoot under an inch at 50 yards with home cast bullets.

Harold

And all I can see that might be a glitch in Harold's response is that there is no info on the specific loads (bullet wt. powder) being compared... though he does mention that they are "close bullet weight". The difference he shows between the two at .51 ft lbs is (again in my humble opinion) pretty insignificant.

*Full disclosure: I own both 30/30 (a 5 lb Topper) and a 357 Max (in a 6 lb Handi-Gun). Shooting factory rounds (170 gr flat point Federal) and 180 gr SSP (silhouette pistol) handloads (too lazy to look up the recipe, but it is a "standard" sort of mix) my skinny 14 yr old son prefers the Maxi over the 30/30 because he says it has less recoil. In addition the Maxi is on a Survivor stock and the 30/30 has a straight grip wood stock, (see avatar pic to the left) which, because the Survivor fits him better, no doubt contributes to a difference in perceived recoil for my son. I personally have no particular conclusion re difference in recoil, but I will say the 30/30 seems to have a sharper "crack" sound than the Maxi when touched off, and if I'm going to flinch (which I do rarely) it is more likely to happen during prolonged shooting with the 30/30 because of the muzzle blast/sound.

The above is simply my opinion, and is based on personal experiences and observations. Your mileage results may vary. If your experiences and observations differ, and you have a need to take offense, feel free to do so. If you anticipate a defensive response from me, please be patient, I may be having lunch, napping, or otherwise productively occupied.

Allow me to remind you of the original question Bobby posed - and I'd take particular note of the last line:

 

Those of you that have reamed the 357mag to max, how is the recoil compared to a 30/30 factory load?  I'm trying to decide between the 357 or the 30/30.

I don't need either one.................it's not an addiction, it's in the DNA

Bobby

And I now humbly suggest (well maybe not so humbly) someone's OPINION is just that, an opinion, not an attack. The way I see it, a couple of y'all (CW and Blackhawker) were both adding something you (and truthfully I also) believed to be helpful and interesting even though it was not specifically related to the original "recoil" question. From my reading there was no attack by anybody, and therefore no need for a defense of anything.

We all have our favorites and if we get so stuck defending them and start taking stuff personally that is how a "flame war" gets started. And for the record, I did not see any of that happening, though it came close with ".. cross and nails" and ".. keep my comments to myself.." from Blackhawker. But then he went with the ".. having fun here.." approach, and used the word ".. wubby.." (which brought a smile to my face)

That is one of the things I personally value about GBO and these exchanges; there are tidbits of information and unexpected little gems showing up all the time that are not necessarily related to a thread's topic, and those are well worth (to me at least) the off chance of somebody being less than enthusiastic about what I have to say, or who doesn't appreciate my favorite "wubby"!? (I hope I am using "wubby" correctly, even though I don't actually know what it means.) 

Happy New Year y'all 

Cheers
Kerry

p.s. Bobby get 'em both... don't fight it - its in your DNA! (Probably we're all related - it seems to be in mine and 98.6% of the posters here too!) 

[quickdtoo]

Well said Kerry, thank you. 

Tim

[billy_56081]

A 30-30 can be down loaded as well. Either will make a light recoiling gun and both will take anyting that walks the lower 48 with the right bullet choice.

One point to consider is 357 max brass is scarce and getting scarcer.

[revbc]

Thanks to all who replied,

Bought the 357   I chimed in on the post about the 357 combo gun, because the one I bought is (I think)the SB1 receiver.  I'm not worried about adding a centerfire barrel to the rifle as long as I can ream it to maxi we'll be fine.

Bobby

[Blackhawker]

Tallyho and to the rest; I'm sorry things got heated.  I'd like to say one thing on this however and let it rest.  (and I'm not trying to have the last word here)  If the comment was posted and that was it, I would have let it go and thought nothing of it.  What got me ticked was the fact that CW wrote a PM to me and forewarned me that I might find what he wrote offensive and not to take it as such.  Yet, he wrote in his posting that he was "having a little fun".  Fun how?  Poking fun at what I had to say in front of the forum yet apologizing to me in private?  From the start, if he thought what he said might have offended me, then why did he write it?  I refer to the old saying: "If you don't have something good to say, then don't say it at all".  Granted, the data that CW posted was good and valid and informative information, I just feel that he should have been a little more cautious with his response and not needed to send an apology. 

Yet, if this wasn't enough, CW wrote yet another PM to me in which he attempted to give me his qualifications and basically his whole resume of firearms training and knowledge, etc almost as if he was trying to bully me into understanding that what he says is gospel and my opinion meant nothing by comparison.  If the forum is based on opinions and personal experiences here, I do not believe it is nessesary to demise or diminish someone else's opinion or experience because one works in the field or has been shooting longer than another person etc.  And I add, if one is seeking respect as being an "expert", that is certainly not the way to do it.  There are people here which I respect very much as "experts" and they did not have to give me a rundown of their history.  Instead, they post knowlegably and with professionalism.  For example, I'm sure Tim (quickdtoo) has never written an apologetic PM to someone for a response he wrote.

Enough said, let's let it go.  CW, I extend my hand to shake.

Back to the REAL topic here....which has already been decided upon since revbc already made a purchase.

I plink, shoot paper, prairie dogs and I suppose whatever might go bump in the night.  I am not a deer hunter but that does not mean that I'm not interested in it nor do I shy away from other people's information about it.
With that said, my comments are more than likely biased toward shooting longer distances without the worry of stopping power for deer sized quarry.  In reference to the recoil question, I agreed right from the start that the 30-30 has a slight heavier recoil than the 357 max, however neither are heavy recoiling rifles which in my opinion shouldn't be the main reason for ruling one out over the other. 

As for usage of the caliber, that is a different story:
CW's commentary is perfectly accurate.  The 357 Max can be loaded to outperform a 30-30 when considering knock-down power at a given distance.  Neither round is probably a wise choice for deer hunting out past 150 yards..but this is not my field of experience.  I leave that to you CW and other deer hunters.  You are the knowledgable ones in that area.

On the other hand, if shooting lighter weight bullets, such as for target shooting, plinking or prairie dog hunting, the 30-30 has shown much better accuracy with my experience.  When comparing a 125 grain bullet (varmint ammo) from each caliber, the accuracy of the 357 max falls way short of the 30-30.  I believe this is due to the overall length of the bullet itself.  A longer bullet stabilizes better in flight than does a short stumpy one.  My comparative experience with the 357 max vs. the 30-30 is all with lighter weight bullets....125g, 158g, 150g.

So, without knowing what revbc was going to be shooting at, I biased my opinion toward the 30-30 as opposed to the 357 max since my experience is with lighter weight bullets.  With the data that CW has displayed and when considering deer hunting alone, the 357 max is the choice; better stopping power from higher velocity, heavier, larger diameter bullets while the larger diameter bullet instability if offset by using heavier and much longer bullets.  (by the way, that's why I brought the 375 Win and 38-55 into the picture)

I guess that in my original post I should have made mention to the fact that I shoot paper and prairie dogs a lot and not deer.  The choice of target deems the choice of bullet and hence the choice of firearm and caliber.

Thanks and sorry for the commotion!  Good luck with your new toy revbc!

By the way Tallyho, a wubby is funny name for a blanket that a small child carries around with them day and night.