Author Topic: Lincoln - The Man  (Read 1470 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Lincoln - The Man
« on: December 31, 2008, 12:40:38 PM »
I’m reading “Lincoln – The Man” by Edgar Lee Masters. Masters’ Grandfather had many dealings with Lincoln and had a very low opinion of him. Masters wrote the book from that standpoint. I can hear the cat calls now but you would be wrong, there is no name calling or mud slinging, although he is very much anti-Lincoln he is also very honest in his assessment of the man.. Just as Lee is a product of the times so is Lincoln. The main difference between Lincoln and those other citizens who played a major part in our nation’s history at that point in time was this; they were all very well educated while Lincoln was not.

The part of this book I want to talk about in this post is Lincoln’s opinion of the Constitution versus “The Union”. Lincoln was very good at playing on people’s fears and he does so again and again when he talks about “a house divided against itself”. He talks about the Union coming before the Constitution, before the Articles of Confederation, and at the time of the Declaration of Independence. Count back 4 score and 7 years ago and you will see that I’m right. Where did he get such ideas? Remember this date Sept. 5, 1774; this is Lincoln’s date for the start of “The Union”. Up until that date the colonies had no dealings with each other save in a very minor way. You might want to look up the “The Boston Port Bill.”

Let’s go back to the Declaration and follow it thru till the Constitution and see the real truth and also understand just what we have lost by having this man become President of the United States. The DOI was written by the 13 colonies while still under British rule. The war for Independence was fought and won. At the treaty of Paris the King of England expressly named each and every State as being a free and sovereign state having the power to do all things that any state/nation may do.

** A side note: The Confederacy could have used this treaty to gain recognition but they didn’t; I wonder why. My guess is that no one thought of it but going by that treaty alone the King of England could have been made to recognize (in court) the Southern states as independent because he already had done so in that treaty.

Next we come to the Articles of Confederation and the use of the word “perpetual”; it should be noted that there is a clause in that which states that it can only be broken or the states secede only if all the states agree to do so at the same time. This is a point that you would do well to remember. Six years later we are called together again to “Fix/Amend these Articles” but what happens is that the baby is thrown out with the bath water; illegally I might add. The delegates over stepped their bounds and made a new Constitution which is not what they were to do. There was NEVER a vote to secede from the Articles as they were written in the first place. There was hell to pay for this and this is when you see the Federalist and the Anti-Federalist papers written.

Now we come to the Constitution, remembering that there was NEVER a call to vote for delegates to send to a convention to make a Constitution. The different states ratified it after the AOC was thrown out. In point of fact North Carolina and Rhode Island had to be drugged screaming and kicking into this Union. Three other states only passed it by the slimmest of margins. The other point to remember is that only land owners were allowed to vote so there were millions of people who had no say in this process. On pages 332 and 333 the numbers are stated and it will amaze you as to the truth of the matter.

Now is all of this bad, of course not, the truth of the matter is that we got very lucky and got a great Constitution. The point that needs to be made here is that the states never gave up their sovereignty. In point of fact the Preamble originally names each state and it was changed only for the sake of brevity.

So where am I going with this? Lincoln, by his own words, held the Union above the one document that he swore to uphold and defend. In point of fact he stated on several occasions that “If you had to cut off an arm so that the body could live so be it.” He saved the Union by killing its heart and soul.

As I work thru this chapter I will come back and post more if there is an interest in it.

One other minor point is that there were several times after the Constitution was ratified there was secession talk in both northern as well as southern states. All of these threats taking place long before SC pulled the plug. 

I want to add this small edit:

 http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/beard_constitution.html

Quote
which is adapted from The Supreme Court and the Constitution (1912), Charles Beard presents evidence that the framers of the Constitution were less interested in furthering democratic principles than in protecting private property and the interests of the wealthy class. Since this work was written over eighty years ago, there are a few anachronisms you may want to keep in mind. First, when Beard speaks of the "Confederacy," he is referring to the government that existed under the Articles of Confederation -- not to the Confederate states that seceded from the Union during the Civil War. Also, it is important to remember that the Senate was still not elected by popular vote when Beard was writing     
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 08:40:33 PM »
Lincoln's First Inaugural Address

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/1inaug.htm

Quote
I hold, that in contemplation of universal law, and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper, ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our national Constitution, and the Union will endure forever -- it being impossible to destroy it, except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.

Again, if the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade, by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate it -- break it, so to speak; but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?

What is he talking about? What is Universal Law? "I hold" this is Lincoln's opinion nothing more and a naive one at that.

He makes statements of questions? He's the lawyer yet he's not stating facts he's rather fishing because he is unsure of what he speaks.

"It is safe to assert that no government proper, ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination."

More words and platitudes; "organic law" ? Remember Lincoln in 1848, in congress, stated that a people could secede from a government yet now he changes his tune.

Later on in this very speech he makes reference to the Supreme Court ruling on secession in a vague and round about way, saying who knows what, about it.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline littlecanoe

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 02:38:57 AM »
In your quotes it would appear that he is being redundant in stating his contemplation of "universal laws, and the constitution".  Based upon my understanding of what our founding fathers wrote in our constitution they tried to protect the "universal laws" which would make the constitution a reflection of the universal laws to which he referred.  By universal laws did he refer to the Scripture?  Was he speaking of the right of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Quote
It is safe to assert that no government proper, ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination.

This statement alone points to the disingenuous intent of the man.  This statement compares the wonderful government of our first 80 years with every government that had existed throughout history.  What other form of government had given such power to the people with the intent of those same people keeping that power?  I'd call that an apple and orange argument.


Quote
Again, if the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade, by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate it -- break it, so to speak; but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?

Is this an argument to increase the strength of the fed or is it assumption that the fed has this power?  It would appear to be a redefinition of the terms of the contract.

Offline littlecanoe

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2009, 02:48:50 AM »
Ga wb,

I started reading the speech and got a bit angry so I stopped for a while.  I'm not interested in getting my blood up today.

Please remind me of the provision that allows a state to withdraw from the UNION.  Mr. Lincoln seemed to dance around that issue and dissolve that right with argument based on varying views.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2009, 07:01:29 AM »
The Declaration of Independence preceeded the US Constitution and is the FIRST governing document of this nation. It clearly states just the opposite of Lincoln's premise and says that it is not only our right but our duty to remove ourselves from an unjust and improper government.

It is my contention that at the time of the War for Southern Independence that was the case and they were completely right in making the decision to secede. It would I think have been more proper for them to have used that very same document in declaring their independence from the US.

I think the day is gonna come soon when the need once again will come to take a similar course of action. It should be interesting to see if that course of action is indeed taken and if so what the result will be this time.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 11:32:28 PM »
Ga wb,

I started reading the speech and got a bit angry so I stopped for a while.  I'm not interested in getting my blood up today.

Please remind me of the provision that allows a state to withdraw from the UNION.  Mr. Lincoln seemed to dance around that issue and dissolve that right with argument based on varying views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence

Quote

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

The next section, the famous preamble, includes the ideas and ideals that were principles of the Declaration. It is also an assertion of what is known as the "right of revolution": that is, people have certain rights, and when a government violates these rights, the people have the right to "alter or abolish" that government.[57]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Now how could anything be plainer than that?
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline littlecanoe

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2009, 12:40:10 PM »
Plain as the nose on your face.

He had to be defining it as he went to fit his needs.  Sad thing is that he may have believed that at one time.  Then again.  There is the possibility that his previous statements were made for the sake of the goal at that time.

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 06:57:40 PM »
lc - To be honest I think Lincoln was a man afraid. He wanted to be successful so very badly and he was so very jealous of Douglas. To find himself becoming President of the United States had to be like winning the lottery to Lincoln and then to come to the realization that it wasn't going to be the picnic he thought it would be had to be unnerving to him. It is said that on his trip to Washington he became so afraid that he couldn't talk and when he got there after several train and buggie changes, he thought necessary because he was so sure that he would be killed, that he spent the next 3 days in bed just to try and get his nerve back so that he could talk.

Can you imagine becoming President only to have 7 states secede after you're elected but before you can take office?
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline ironfoot

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 12:37:12 AM »
Here is some information on the Boston Port Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Port_Act

"This was the first step in the unification of the thirteen colonies. The First Continental Congress was convened in Philadelphia on September 5, 1774, to coordinate a colonial response to the Port Act and the other Coercive Acts."
Act the way you would like to be, and soon you will be the way you act.

Offline ironfoot

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2009, 12:43:57 AM »
Lincoln's Coopers Union speech, along with the Lincoln/Douglas debates, propelled Lincoln onto the national stage. You can read the speech here:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

A partial summary:

"With a deft touch, Lincoln exposed the roots of sectional strife and the inconsistent positions of Senator Stephen Douglas and Chief Justice Roger Taney. He urged fellow Republicans not to capitulate to Southern demands to recognize slavery as being right, but to "stand by our duty, fearlessly and effectively."
Act the way you would like to be, and soon you will be the way you act.

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2009, 04:34:27 AM »
Lincoln's Coopers Union speech, along with the Lincoln/Douglas debates, propelled Lincoln onto the national stage. You can read the speech here:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

A partial summary:

Quote
"With a deft touch, Lincoln exposed the roots of sectional strife and the inconsistent positions of Senator Stephen Douglas and Chief Justice Roger Taney. He urged fellow Republicans not to capitulate to Southern demands to recognize slavery as being right, but to "stand by our duty, fearlessly and effectively."

That really should be done this way ironfoot, inside the box,ok Thanks.

And thanks for the Link to the Boston Port Act.

You know its really odd that people give so much credit to Lincoln in the Lincoln/Douglas debates. Lincoln lost the election and Douglas went to the US Senate. The other odd thing to come out of this whole affair is that if the Democratic party doesn't split up there is no way Lincoln becomes President. If those Southern states Don't Secede Lincoln never sees the White House as he only carried 37% of the vote. I don't guess he was so very popular at all, at least while he was alive. He had to get killed to become a Martyr/Saint.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 08:18:10 PM »
I want to say just a little about the author, Edgar Lee Masters (1868-1950), he spend his childhood in and around Lewistown, Illinois. He was a very good lawyer who gave up a partnership with none other than Clarence Darrow to become a polemical writer. He is best known for "Spoon River Anthology." "Lincoln - the Man" brought him acclaim as a biographer and a person of exploding collectivist myths.

Being a lawyer gives added strength to his comments about Lincoln's gutting of the Constitution and becoming a king in his power grab by over stepping his lawful bounds. From pages 391-406 list alot of the illegal acts that Lincoln took to have his way with this country. Those acts have been listed here in other post so I'll not bore you with repeating them but it says alot when a lawyer from that time period agrees with a secession lawyer of today as to the truth of the matter. I'm sure there are those here who will disagree but I wonder just how many are Constitutional lawyers and truly know/understand that part of the law?

You may say, but you aren't a lawyer either, which is true but I'm quoting from true lawyers who are versed in Constitutional law and I will stand on what they say. Also remember Lincoln's bunch had Davis, Lee, and others in their hands and did nothing but they surely tried. You may think anything you like but you can't get around the very fact that not one person was tried for treason? Why not? What were they afraid of if what they did was legal? Davis was in leg irons and he begged to be put before a judge and jury yet they turned him lose. They offered him a pardon yet he wanted to be tried. To the very end he was true to his (and mine) beliefs.

You may say if Lincoln broke those laws where was congress to stop him? Well you see since he was elected the majority in congress was from his party (all the southerners in congress had left), why would they even want to stop him? They were a party to his law breaking just as surely as he!! The only voice left was Douglas and he was crying out as if in the wilderness. Who was left to listen? No one.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline littlecanoe

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 11:11:33 PM »
I'd be curious to know why he left a practice with Clarence Darrow.  His association with that man would make him suspect.  However, if he left for the right reasons, at least in my mind, his view could be redeemed.  I hope that he didn't share Clarence Darrow's philosophy.  No matter, I still believe that Lincoln is not the Hero that history has made him to be. 

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 12:11:45 AM »
lc I don't know if this helps or not but he gave up lawyering around 1912-1913 because his first authorship was published in 1915. It was the "Spoon River " series.

This comes from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Darrow

Quote
Darrow shared offices with Edgar Lee Masters, who achieved more fame for his poetry, in particular the Spoon River Anthology, than for his advocacy. Darrow also took Eugene V. Debs as a partner, following his release from prison.

You should be aware that wikipedia doesn't hold Masters in very high regard because of his Lincoln book. I would also think that Darrow being a ACLU type of lawyer and coming from a family of Abolitionist that he and Masters would be at odds with each other in their philosophy.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2009, 05:39:26 AM »
Obama loves Lincoln; we are in a world of hurt!!!! :o

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7405&eeid=6331900&_sitecat=1181&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Is this a harbinger of things to come? A time of history repeating itself?
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline phalanx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2880
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 10:23:31 AM »
Ga.Windbreak is correct , Grant was Horrified at what he found out when he took the oval Office.
We never hear about Grant because he was the one who re-instated the constitution.
In fact him and LEE stayed in contact for years after the War , Grant gets the blame for everything because the fat cats in Washington were doing about the same thing we see in Congress today.
Obama didnt say ( The Constitution is a flawed document) all by himself , Lincoln said this to Cargisle ,and also said that the Constitution is the Flaws and the reason for this Civil War.s
My GOD i also have a Book written on Grant ,everything we hear about this man is false ,Grant threatened to Fire Congress twice ,and to pull the old Confederates out of his Army to help him enforce it.
Grant didnt take a Wage for a Year after takeing the office ,he said he wasn't going to live better than his Fellow Americans just because he could.
Obama read the Book Lincoln wrote on the Reconstruction after the War , some say that book was also what Carl Marx read and based some of his beliefs on.
Obama sits this book on his table right beside the ones from Marx and Lennon.
If it were not for Grant Guys ,we would have lost this Country to an idealization that became socialism, over one hundred years ago. WE NEED A GRANT OR A LEE ,TODAY FOR SURE.

LEE told a Fellow Patriot of his that him and Grant had found out things that would have disgraced the Memory of ALL the men who died in that war believing they were fighting for a Nobel cause.
Its like Obama wants a War ,even if he starts it , hang on guys ,Happy Birthday General LEE ,and thank you general Grant.
You Yankees had a REAL good Man there ,we need to Honor him also.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2009, 04:56:52 PM »
phalanx - What is the name of your book on Grant? I would love to read it. As you say nothing good is ever said about Grant so there must be some good there cause they don't write good things about people who do the right things.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline phalanx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2880
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2009, 06:09:20 PM »
GA , Its called ( The Man we never Knew ) By Wilson Franks ,its an old book so you will need to dig for it.
My Mom sent it to me for Christmas ,she found it in an old Book store in Dallas.
It is very damaging to Lincoln , Grant was indeed a Patriot ,and even one time when he was sick and about to die ,he told the Reporter from the Harpers that sometimes he felt he had fought on the wrong side.
I had always heard Lincoln was a Jerk ,but i never knew it was this bad , Thank you for your Post , You are so very right.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline Gary G

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2009, 11:49:00 AM »
Quote
Obama loves Lincoln; we are in a world of hurt!!!!


I sure hope not!

http://mises.org/journals/scholar/Reconstruction.PDF
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2009, 07:54:38 PM »
Quote
Obama loves Lincoln; we are in a world of hurt!!!!


I sure hope not!

http://mises.org/journals/scholar/Reconstruction.PDF

Thanks for that link Gary G. If that doesn't open eyes nothing else will; yet I'm afraid that most people who sleep soundly in their beds at night hardly worry about things such as the Constitution/Bill of Rights or anything else except is the heat turned up enough to keep the cold out and I sure do like my new car. True lovers of Freedom and Liberty have always been in the minority. Check out the numbers of voters in off year elections; those numbers tell the tail.

It is said that Obama has a book of Lincoln next to his bed and that He feels that Lincoln was one of the smartest Politicians ever and holds him in the highest regard, God help us all.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SouthernByGrace

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 378
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2009, 06:44:21 AM »
GaryG, that is a great link. The information contained there fits perfectly with what I have been writing about in the Yankee Myth series. It hits on several points I have written about and I couldn't agree more with GW that, if that doesn't open some eyes, then these folks just don't want to see... :(

In an earlier thread, I don't remember if it was you or littlecanoe, mentioned the older people having conservative views but could never bring themselves to vote Republican because it was Republicans that brought so much destruction to the South after the War. I tend to believe as these older people do. Having conservative views myself, I can only point to the current administrations eight years of waste and plunder of this country that has made so many Republicans switch parties for the first time in their lives. No matter how conservative I am, I cannot vote for the party that brought my family and so many other Southern families such destruction and ruin, no matter how well they sugar coat it.

I cast no aspersions on anybody for their political beliefs. I don't try to change them.
Is Obama perfect? NO! As far as him "idolizing" Lincoln, I think it's more the IDEA of Lincoln, not the REALITY of Lincoln that Obama and most blacks cling to as their crutch. They have never been taught anything different. I doubt seriously if Obama has a clue about the Real Lincoln... They can't be blamed for that, so who can be? The Yankee Myth Makers, that's who! The myths are working Perfectly! As Planned...
If the article in your link was put before students in a class room, they would see, probably for the first time, that there is a completely different side to what they have always been taught about Lincoln, as well as the South... it would definitely open some eyes, of both black and white.
For the blacks, they would start looking a little closer at the people they idolize, such as Lincoln, MLK, and many more. And today, of ALL days, they will promptly go out and participate in the many parades "honoring" Martin Luther King, Jr. All the while, never knowing that the man they honor was an admitted adulterer, while professing to be a minister of the Gospel. These young people have no idea of the REAL Lincoln, or the REAL MLK. They've never been taught any other way. That's the sad reality of the situation...

Great post, Gary
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2009, 07:46:51 AM »
While I too believe that each person should follow their heart and beliefs when voting, I wrote a blank check to this great country in my belief of that freedom.
I also believe that ignorance is no excuse and we are talking about a man that is supposedly a Constitutional lawyer which makes me think hes playing cards with peoples emotions. BTJMHO and if I can dig and find the truth anyone can and if you care, my feeling is that, you should.

I should add: now that he is about to become our 44th President; my prayers are with him. He'll need them because we truly are in a real mess and throwing paper into a black hole is NOT the answer. Hes also right about one other thing, IMHO, its going to get MUCH worse before it gets any better.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline Ga.windbreak

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lincoln - The Man
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 01:10:17 AM »
I wanted to come back to Lincoln and post something from Pastor John Weaver concerning Ole Honest Abe.

 DON"T GO TO THIS SITE - its bugged - Gwb

Quote


Jesus Christ said in John 12:48 "Verily, Verily I said unto you, he that rejecteth me, (that is the living truth,) and receiveth not my words, (that is the written truth), hath one that judgeth him in the last day even the word which I have spoken." Now, the truth is, many people ask for truth, but they really do not want it. Now the reason I am giving you this introduction is because I am going to bring a message today which I have entitled "Honest Abe wasn't so Honest."

Enjoy the read.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP