Parkerizing Barrel

[Backswampcub]

 
   Has anyone ever Parkerized a Steel Barreled Cannon. I am really considering the old school grey parkerize for my GB Bore Naval. I am going for a Rough Pirate cannon. Kind of like a knocked around Gun that was taken on and off ship and not treated as a treasured piece but more as a tool like it was intended.

[GGaskill]

Seems like an awful lot of work for something that was simply painted black in the days they were actually used for real.

[dan610324]

Ive never done any parkerizing and doesnt know how to do ,  but I hope someone here will explain how to do it .
but Ive got a friend who tried some gold , silver and nickel plating , its very easy and gives an perfect professional result .

take an plastic container large enough for the item you are going to plating .
then you fill it with water enough to cower the cannon or whatever it is . add some baking soda to the water , he use approximately 400 gram to 25 liter water .

then you connect an fully loaded car battery to 2 vires ,

+ you connect to the part you are going to plate
- to the metal of your decission that you want on the part

Ive seen him use both gold silver and nickel with perfect result

just a few days in the baking soda / water mix and you have it gold plated
longer time gives an thicker layer

it doesnt remove almost any material from the gold nickel or silver used , gold is expensive but the weight loss is extremely little .
so its not expensive to do

if you reverse the polarity you can use it to remove rust from steel or iron
- to the steel part you want to clean from rust
+ to a piece of copper sheet

both metals must of course be under the water/baking soda mix
but if you are gold , silver or nickel plating , dont let any part of the copper wire contact the water , only the metal you want on your part .

when the electricity goes from minus to plus it takes molecule sized particles with it from the giving metal to the recieving metal

[Cannoneer]

Backswampcub,

 My answer to your question is no, but if you don't mind some unasked for input, I agree with George. If your goal is realism, then the cast iron naval guns of the period you're talking about were almost allways left with the outer surface as it came from casting, (not finished in a lathe) and they were also almost always painted black.

[Cat Whisperer]

I have had bunches of mortars parkerized.  4140 comes out a deep black.

Parkerizing starts by degreasing and cleaning.

It involves high temperature solution of phosphoric acid - which imparts the color.  There are others minor chemicals to toss in that also affect color.

It does nothing for rustproofing.

If you have it sandblasted first you will have a good textured surface that will hold some rust preventive.  The Israelies parkerize the UZI's and then PAINT them.  Hmmmm.  Something to consider.

Local platers are much more familiar with black-oxide treatment.

[Rickk]

While a bit expensive, a POR-15 paint job will last close to forever  www.por15.com

You will need the
- Metal Ready (phosphate surface etch)
- POR15 base coat (Clear is the best for moisture resistance)
- Self etch primer in a spray can (to let the black top-coat bond permenantly to the clear base-coat)
- Two-Part "Hardnose" top coat (in Black)

Clean barrel with lots of soap and water, followed by 70%-100% Isopropyl Alcohol. Let barrel dry completely before proceeding. You are removing dirt, grease, oil. Don't panic about a bit of thin surface rust. In fact, surface rust gives the POR15 something to stick to and they actually recommend letting freshly abraided surfaces sit a few days after degreasing to "age" a bit.

Brush it on, don't spray it on (unless you have proper breathing equipment - requirements are on the web site. Without it, the spray will cure when it contacts the moisture in your lungs and can kill you). They didn't have paint sprayers untill the early 1930's or so, so any paint job done on a BP cannon would have been brushed anyway. The POR15 flows nicely, so brush marks will not be a problem..

Use 3 very thin coats of both POR15 and also the Hardnose. Do it on a dry day. The POR15 is moisture cured, so thick coats combined with humid days can cause rapid cure reactions and form bubbles. If it bubbles a bit here and there, you can sand the bubbles down (with some effort) and apply the next coat.

Don't use a plastic cup to hold the mixed Hardnose (or the POR15 for that matter) as it will eat thru the bottom of the plastic cup in about 5 minutes (been there, done that). A clean metal can is better choice.

This stuff is amazing. If you paint something with it, the paint is going to be there for a long, long time. That includes your own skin by the way (once again... been there, done that).

Rick

[Tropico]

I've been using POR 15 for a long time now (about 5 years) I used it on my twin Herns. These are always  outdoors ., they are in a VERY humid enviroment., yea POR 15 is the way to go. Its the  only thing I  will use ., its hard .,like a plastic glass finish ? tough . I tested it first by painting a section of my bachoe bucket. After  doing a drainfield the por 15 area was still there just like we had painted it. Its amazing really.

[Don Krag]

I do quite a bit of parkerizing. Here's a post on another forum I did on parkerizing 101....
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48684

I get great rust prevention on knives made from 5160, 1084, 1095 and W1 steels. I bead blast with 80 grit garnet then coat with oil after parkerizing. The parkerized finish holds oil forever it seems, and this is what gives you your rust proofing. I prefer the blackness of manganese phosphate as opposed to the green/grey of zinc phosphate.

The difficulty of doing a cannon will obviously be the handling problems like suspending it in a tank, although you could make a rig to fit in the bore that holds it up off any surface in the tank.

I actually have a fun side project started...a 15th century "tactical gonne". The contours will be 15th century, but it will be a parkerized barrel tapped for a scope mount and the tiller made from black micarta composite. It's going to be a gift for a friend on an anti-terrorism squad that also does medieval re-enactment.

[Victor3]

 I've done a lot of iron phosphate Parkerizing in my garage on rifles/pistols. No cannons yet, but I plan on doing one or two of my mortars. Easy peasy to do compared to most finishes. Brownells has all the stuff required.

 The main issue for most wanting to do big parts (like cannons) at home are the large tanks required. You can do smaller parts in a stainless steel cooking pot on the stove though. Sandblasting needs to be done in order for the finish to be durable, hold oil, or work as a base for paint (Mil-Spec for it requires blasting).

 Most larger plating houses are set up for Parkerizing if you don't want to try it yourself (And I wouldn't, unless you're planning to do more than one or two cannon).

 Done right it lasts a long time and looks good as-is. I did an SMLE intending to paint it black, but it looks so good I never did paint it.

[Double D]

Don,

The DHS cannon should come with a full compliment of picatinney rails to attach flashlights, lasers and halbreds

[Cat Whisperer]

Don,
The DHS cannon should come with a full compliment of picatinney rails to attach flashlights, lasers and halbreds

YES!   But they MUST be pre 1898 Picatinney rails.   

[Don Krag]

I'll have to forge some rails from some iron blooms.


As for large parkerizing tanks, find a scrap yard and look for some industrial tanks. For a small cannon, scrap extinguishers work for tanks. Be sure to seal the touch hole and bore.

[seacoastartillery]

Don,
The DHS cannon should come with a full compliment of picatinney rails to attach flashlights, lasers and halbreds

YES!   But they MUST be pre 1898 Picatinney rails.  

     Thank you Cat Whisperer!  Tim, you alone have the intestinal fortitude to hold the line against the rogue elements who have infiltrated the GBO Mortar and Cannon membership, and now, even against a moderator, who some may consider to have sympathy for those elements and from time to time issues statements like the one above, to whom some would consider an instigation of rogue action.
     OUTSTANDING !! Tim.  We know your bastion is strong and well armed and high enough to observe any incursions by rogue forces into your lands which are ruled by order and rule of law.  You have our gratitude, Sir.   

Forever vigilant,

Mike and Tracy

[Double D]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but I was talking about:

http://www.pica.army.mil/picatinnypublic/about/history.asp

Picatinny maintained as much as 49 miles of its own narrow and standard gauge Picatinny Arsenal Railroad to service its many transportation needs (fuel, raw materials, ammunition, etc.).

This was pre 1899 and was a feature the Aresnal was known for.  And you guys call yourselves histroy buffs...

[Cat Whisperer]

There needed to be a clarification between the current John Wayne/Rambo/Muscle/etc/etc current production picatiny rails commonly used to "attach flashlights, lasers and halbreds" that are clearly not pre-1898 !  While flashlights (electric tourches) MIGHT have been around then, lasers clearly were not.

We do have a reputation to uphold!   

Thanks, M&T for your keen eye in this matter.

[Double D]

Tim,

I am disappointed in you relying on a couple guys who use rifle scopes to sight their cannons too back you up...but we have always been very liberal about the modern attachments as we have any number of fellows using modern wheels, car tires, bicycle wheels, verathane and lasers for their gun.  So you are forgiven. 

[Cat Whisperer]

Tim,

...  So you are forgiven. 

Since forgiveness (although often easier to get than permission) is such a universally needed commodity, I will accept it with thanks!

[Double D]

...and Merry Christmas also.

[Cat Whisperer]

...and Merry Christmas also.

So what about M&T?  Does forgiveness and Merry Christmas get extended to them too?   

[Double D]

Of course....

[seacoastartillery]

      DD,   Thanks for that info on the Picatinny Arsenal.  Very interesting and I hope you will accept our apologies for thinking that you would ever try to "slip one past" our east coast gatekeeper.  Pre-1899 indeed!  Happy New Year to both of you moderators and to your families and our sincere thanks for the fine job you both do. 

Regards Tracy and Mike

[Double D]

And wee bit of fun also...pulled that one out of my hat!! 

[Cat Whisperer]

And wee bit of fun also...pulled that one out of my hat!! 

So, IS THERE a pre 1898 Picatiny RAIL?  Or is it, as yet, undocumented?

   (I can ASK because I've gotten MY forgiveness!)

[Double D]

Yes there is/was a pre 1899 Railroad a Picatinny, 48 or so miles of it.

[Ex 49'er]

Ooooppss!!!!

[Terry C.]

I have a few feet of railroad track at the shop.

It's not authentic "pre-1899 Picatinny" but it's a pretty good replica.


A little too heavy for a gonne, maybe mounted on a field piece?

[Double D]

Check the link up thread...

Picatinny was also know for it's Cannon Gate. Does anyone know if that is still around?

Actually lasers and modern Picatinny rails did fit the flow of topic discussion as the cannon under discussion was 15th Century "tactical gonne" and its "upgrades". Fits in the same catagory as talking about upgrades to the French 75.  

I actually have a fun side project started...a 15th century "tactical gonne". The contours will be 15th century, but it will be a parkerized barrel tapped for a scope mount and the tiller made from black micarta composite. It's going to be a gift for a friend on an anti-terrorism squad that also does medieval re-enactment.

To bad Don you can't come up with a piece of small railroad rail, mill some grooves in it, parkerize it...and have an authentic Picatinny rail.

[Terry C.]

Well, this ain't exactly "pre-1899" but it's the best I could come up with based on my scope base designs.

I beg forgiveness in advance...

[Double D]

The Cannon is the replica, the accessories don't matter.

[Cat Whisperer]

Terry -

GREAT interpretation!

The rail head (pre deisel) was definately heavier than the modern rail (no counterweight as on the steam engines).