Opinions wanted - shorter barreled 1851 Navy styles & or pocket models - .36/.31

[bedbugbilly]

Am new to the board and greatly enjoy reading the postings.  I have shot and built muzzleloaders for close to 40 years.  (Full size 10 pound Parrot Rifles as well). I had an .44 1860 Colt Army from Dixie probably 20 years ago - a beautiful revolver once I had it tuned up by a friend but eventually sold it.  I have a .36 Colt Navy that is about 20 years old - steel frame - I don't know the manufacture but probably Pietta.  (I traded an old shotgun for it).  The fit and quality are not the best (typical from what I hear for a revolver by them that is that vintage).  I like the feel and balance of it but would like to have something similar to it with a shorter barrel.  I don't shoot competition - just plink and have fun and prefer the .36 over a .44.  That said, I am considering maybe one of the following -

NAVY ARMS - "Frontiersman" - pretty much a .36 1851 Navy with a 5 inch barrel  - price on their website is $335.00  QUESTIONS:

1.  Who makes Navy Arms revolvers?
2.  Anybody have any experience with one of their 'Frontiersman' models? Praise / Complaints / Problems?
3.  Fit / Finish?

PIETTA - 1851 "Sheriffs" model - .36 cal. - price on their website is $275.00.  I have read both pro and con on this site in regards to Pietta - softer steel - poorer quality than an Uberti, etc., etc.  Also that their quality has improved.  QUESTIONS:

1.  Anybody have any experience with one of their "Sheriff's" models?  Praise / Complaints / Problems?
2.  Fit / Finish?

UBERTI - 1862 .36 "Pocket" Navy - 5 1/2 inch barrel - this is the one that resembles a 1851 Navy with an octogan barrel -price on their website is $339.00.  S & S Firearms lists this model (Uberti make) with a 6 1/2 inch barrel at $254.00.  QUESTIONS:

1.  Anybody have any experience with on of their "1862 Pocket Navy" models (octogon barrel)?  Praise / Complaints / Problems?
2.  Fit / Finish?
3.  I understand that this pistol is on the smaller 1849 pocket model frame.  Is that correct?  If so, is it strong enough for .36 loads?
4.  What barrel length is this model available in?  5 1/2 or 6 1/2?

I'm also considering the 1849 Colt Pocket Model.  The .31 cal doesn't bother me as I'm just going to be plinking at tin cans and paper targets.  Does anyone have any experience with these?  Any problems,praise?
Cabelas list an Uberti 1849 Pocket Model at $299.99 and S & S lists the same gun at $254.00  I have smaller hands and from what I am hearing, it has good balance and fit as well - I haven't had a chance to handle one yet.  I carry my '51 Navy with the 7 1/2 inch barrel in a "cross draw" holster and would just like to have something shorter and more handy that doesn't feel like you are pulling a "buntline special" out to clear leather.

Any help, information or advice would be greatly appreciated!  Sorry for the length of this post.  Happy New Year to all!  Thanks!

Jim

[Cowpox]

OK, you asked for opinions, so I will give you mine.  Keep in mind what they say about opinions though.

Question 1   Navy has handled items from several makers over the last 50+ years, but I am under the impression that currently, most of their revolvers are Pietta made.

2  I have no experience with their Frontiersman, but I have two Pietta 1851s, and am satisfied my money was well spent.

3  The fit and finish is decent enough, considering the price. If you spend a little more for revolvers from Cimarron or Taylors, they seem to be fit and finished to a little higher standard.

PIETTA   
    I have a Sheriffs model 1851, but it is an old Hawes. I also have a 5 inch Uberti 1858.  They are both easier to carry and get out of the leather, but in my case, I find target acquisition faster, and hit more consistently with the longer barrels.   A word of caution.  Avoid the brass framed ones, as the brass frames are not real durable. I use a 5 inch long piece of 1/2 inch PVC pipe to aid ramming with those short loading levers.

UBERTI Pocket Navy.
     I don't have a Pocket Navy, But I do have it's counterpart, an 1862 Pocket  Police.  Basically the same gun, but with the 1860 Army style round barrel and "creeping" loading lever.  Also fluted instead of engraved cylinder.   It is fun to shoot, very accurate, but you give up one chamber, and about ten grains of powder per shot.  Also, I don't find the small grip frame real comfortable.  The fit and finish are nice, and they seem strong enough for the 15 grain max charge they use.  They do use the same frame as the 31 caliber 1849. 

UBERTI 1849
     I have a friend who has two of them (one he converted to cartridge).  They are cute little pistols, and he loves them.   I have shot his on occasion, and can say they are a lot easier to control and hit with than my 31 caliber 1863 Remington Pocket.  A pound of lead lasts a long time when casting bullets ! 

LONG AND SHORT.  Don't buy until you have a chance to handle all of them.  After that, it is just a matter of personal preference, and you will be the best judge on that.

[bedbugbilly]

Cowpox -

I thank you very much for you input - it is greatly appreciated!  I plan to stay away from brass frames - I know a lot of people have them and like them but I'm a "steel" person.  I was also looking at the 1862 Pocket Police that you spoke about but wondered about grip size, etc. - appreciate your comment on that as well.  As you say, I think it is best that I take a look at what I am considering and handle them before I make up my mind.  I'm not against a Pietta as I know their quality has improved and no matter what brand you buy, you can always end up withn a "lemon".  In reading the postings, no matter what brand you buy, some one has had a bad experience at one time or another.  I have a machining background and I find it difficult to believe that in this day and age with numerical control, the fit and finish can't be "near perfect" but again, you have the "human factor" involved in manufacturing.  I have seen some of the repro muskets that look like the metal and wood grew together and then I have seen some that look like they  were a junior high shop project.  I started shooting black powsder in the 60s and I give the various companies out there, especially Dixie, a lot of credit for their efforts in making BP shooting an affordable hobby to a lot of folks.  Historical research has brought the hobby a long way to the point of authenticity - whether it be firearms, accouterments, clothing, etc. 

I also appreciate your hint about the pvc pipe section as an help in using the shorter rammers on shorter barrel lenghts - a great idea that won't mark up the metal.  I'm looking forward to getting more involved in shooting BP revolvers as it is totally different from the percussion and flintlock longarms i am used to shooting.  The only problem is, all the BP revolvers are so dog-goned pretty it's hard to make up your mind.  Like everyone on this forum, I'd like to have one of each . . . . but then I'm married and would like to keep it that way!  ;-)  (Actually, my wife is very tolerant of my hobbies - we've been married 36 wonderful years!).  I've never handled a Remington so will check those out as well as I know they have a lot of + and -, the same as the Colts.  Whatever i end up with, I want it to be an extension of my hand and as the saying goes in the muzzleloading fraternity . . . "beware of the man who shoots just one gun".

Thanks again for your input  . . . . I look forward to hearing opinions from others as well.  Have a great one!

Jim

[buckskin billy]

from my own experiance the pocket navy and the pocket police are  the same frame with different barrels, cylinders and loading leavers. it would be a decision of weather you like round or octagon barrels, fluted or non fluted cylinder creeping or hinged loading leavers. me myself i like them both

i have a uberti baby dragoon with a 4 inch barrel. it is a dream to hold. balances real well. i cast my own balls a have had trouble finding the correct size mold for it. dixie gun works claim that it takes a .323 size mold. i think mine is a .312 or something. they are tight in the barrel but are loose in the cylinder, so i can't give you a true accuracy report on it. but i love that little gun.
 
 i have gotten lemons from both pietta and uberti, but i favor a uberti

[Longknife 76]

Bedbug---- I used to shoot a lot of bpr's back in the 70s' (woops now I'm show'n my age--experience) I wore out a few brass framed models. I got hold of an FIE-colt 1849 pocket rev. and it was the best shoot'n gun I had-no recoil, excellent accuarcy with 15 grns of powder. It shot better than my ROA!!!! In a weak moment I traded it off. I got the Uberti '49 about 10 years ago and it is my favorite for plinkn'. Go ahead and get one cause you're gonna get another---I BET!!!! ...Ed

[bedbugbilly]

Longknife 76 - thanks for your coments on the '49 pocket model.  It comes down to personal preference I guess . . .some say they love 'em, others say to go with a .44.  I have a '51 Navy now and enjoy what times I have shot it.  I've shot BP since I was a kid (started in 1964 - don't feel bad about your age!) and shot NSSA for a long time - both musket and full size artillery.  I always enjoyed the twice annual trips to Winchester for the Nationals. After a heart attack and by-pass surgery, I slowed down and went to shooting round-ball longarms - Hawkin and Fusil de Chase - have built a few rifles as well - both percussion and flinters but I always seemed to have someone who wanted them before I even had 'em finished so I sold them.  For some reason, the BP revolver bug has "bitten" and I'm looking forward to having more fun with them.  I'm in Arizona for the winter and taking leather tooling/carving classes so I can make some gun leather for what I have now and hopefully will have down the road.  In the summer, I'll be back to Michigan on the farm and with the amount of woodchucks, coons and possums we have now, will probably carry while I am working in case I see one.  They get pretty brave and sometimes hang around until you are real close to 'em.  I just bought an older 1960's era frass framed .36 "Reb" style revolver with a short barrel.  It was in excellent shape and the price was right.  I'll probably carry that as I don't have much in it and it will be a good "knock around" piece.  At any rate, the '49 Pocket Model is an attractive gun and obviously was well liked when it was originally made due to the amount sold and the years they produced them.  It is definately on my "must have" list and I hope to pick one up in the spring.  I'd like to have a Wells Fargo if it wasn't for the fact it is so timely to reload.  I had a '60 Colt Army with a fluted cylinder about twenty years ago - it was a beautiful piece - I got it from Dixie.  I just didn't like the recoil on it.  I'd like to pick up another like it someday only a Navy model instead in .36.  Problem is - there are so many good looking BP revolvers out there it'a hard to pick which one to get when you can afford to get one. But, that's what makes the hobby such fun!  Again, thanks for you input on the '49 Pocket Model - I appreciate it!  Have a good one!  Jim

[AtlLaw]

Hey Jim!
I feel real bad about saying anything... and I wouldn't except you post was so interesting!     Do me a favor and carve up your posts into paragraphs.  It'll make them a lot easier to read.  My old eyes were crossing trying to keep the lines sorted out!   'course bein 13 beers into a 12 pack probably didn't help either...
Your friend, ain't trying to be mean or a smart butt,
Richard