Can the new SB1 357 be reamed to Maxie?

[revbc]

Just bought the new sb1 357, but need know soon if it could be reamed to maxie with no pressure problems.  That is why I choose the 357, so I could have 3 different choices 38, 357mag, 357 max.  I am not concerned about adding another barrel to this frame.  Can't find the older sb2-357s around here.

Thanks for the input.  I know the 357/20ga combo post was the same question, but I thought I would make this one more direct to the point.

Bobby

[R.W.Dale]

The problem with shotgun frames as found on on my ancient 158 handy gun II was that spicy magnum and max loads would cause the primer to flow back into the large shotgun firing pin hole.

I don't know if this would apply to a modern sb1 but if it's essentially a shotgun frame then I'll wager it will

[MSP Ret]

The newer SB1 framed .357 Magnums and .44 Magnums are reported to be SB1 frames with smaller diameter firing pins, with a firing pin diameter similar to rifle frames. This was a foolish and dangerous thing to do as far as I am concerned. IIRC the cost difference between a SB1 frame and an SB2 frame to the old company was only about $7-$8 each. I would have much preferred to see them make ALL guns, shotguns, muzzleloaders, and centerfire rifles, on SB2 receivers and just add the $7 or $8 to the cost. I think there is now an even greater possibility of someone, after looking at the samller diameter firing pin on one of these "new" SB1 frames and because of that, thinking that it is a centerfire frame, putting on something liike a 30-06 barrel and hurting himself, all because the company wanted to save $7 or $8. Not a wise decision at all by the company. They could have at the least, just continued to make .357 Magnums and .44 Magnums on SB2 frames as they always have....<><....

[petemi]

I agree wholeheartedly, I would gladly double their money and pay 16 to 20 bucks more to have EVERYTHING on a SB2 frame.  No doubts, no questions, no problems.

Pete

[trotterlg]

Can anyone show me a documented case of a Handi frame failing?  No "a friend of my 2nd cousin had ....." but a real failure.  Larry

[MSP Ret]

You are correct Larry, there has been talk here of "frame stretching" and of either bent or worn hinge pins but other than that is has all been vague innuendo. I do think however we should err on the side of safety...I did have an early (pre '99) .243 frame that had what appeared to be a semi circular cut or crack in the breechface where the case would recoil against it and the old CS department replaced the frame for me for no cost when I sent it in for another barrel. They even offered to refit the original barrel to the new frame but that was not necessary so I declined their kind offer. Oh for the good old days and the friendly CS at Gardner. I hope all is going well for those fine people in CS and the rest of the factory that lost their jobs when Remington took over....<><....

[revbc]

Wouldn't you think if the old 158 toppers came with a 30/30 barrel, that this new sb1 receiver could at least handle the pressure of the 357 maxi.

Bobby

[LaOtto222]

The 357 Max is a higher pressure round than the 30-30 + I think people have a tendency to load it above the recommended pressure levels. Of course there are people that load other rounds for the Handi above recommended pressure levels too. But to be safe I would not do it. I would have bought another caliber with a SB2 frame and sent the frame in to be fitted with a 357 barrel - that is what I did. Good Luck and Safe Shooting

[quickdtoo]

The SAAMI MAP(maximum average pressure) for the 30-30 is 42kpsi with a .422" case head, the 357 Max MAP is 40kpsi with a smaller .379" case head, so using Bobbie's logic, it should be fine for the 357Max since the SB1 357mag frame has the smaller rifle size firing pin and surrounding hole. I would definitely recommend using published data for the Contender tho rather than using revolver data as has been mentioned before which is for use in a vented firearm.

I know of two incidents here where high pressure barrels have been used on SB1 frames with no catastrophic failures, one with a .270Win barrel that caused a temporary barrel to frame gap after the shot and really stretched the brass, another with a .308Win barrel, neither caused the frames to be unusable, whether it caused unseen damage isn't known, but mtjerry used the SB1 Survivor frame with no problems with shotguns barrels later, dunno about the .308 owner SB1 frame, he switched to an SB2 frame as I recollect.  

Tim

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

[revbc]

Thanks Quick and all that replied,

I had the opportunity to return this rifle if I had not shot it.  I felt it would do well with reasonable handloads in the Max chambering.  Shot it this evening with some leverevolution ammo, looks like I'm going to really like this little gun.  I'll get around to reaming it at a later date.

Bobby

[quickdtoo]

How'd the LE ammo shoot? Mine didn't do well at all with it, unlike the 44mag which shot great with it.   

Tim

[petemi]

Tim, that sure is strange.  I wonder why.  The larger, heavier bullets in the .44 and .45-70?  It all makes life interesting, doesn't it?

My .357 shot so well with 158 gr. JSPs I just never tried anything else.  My .45-70 gobbles up LEs like candy and spits the wrappers with deadly precision.

Pete

[revbc]

Quick,

I didn't shoot for groups, just trying to get a scope sighted in close enough to down a Louisiana whitetail.  It looks like they are going to shoot fairly well.  POI changed as I moved the scope adjustments toward zero.  It got dark on me, so I didn't get it quite where I wanted.  I'll do my best to shoot a group tomorrow and let you know.

Bobby

[quickdtoo]

Prolly cuz it's a little 140gr bullet, generally the 357mags don't like the lighter bullets, mine's apparently no different.   I shot mine at 100yds, maybe expected too much. 

Tim

[Spanky]

Can anyone show me a documented case of a Handi frame failing?  No "a friend of my 2nd cousin had ....." but a real failure.  Larry

You read my mind Larry.


Spanky

[Jimbo47]

Can anyone show me a documented case of a Handi frame failing?  No "a friend of my 2nd cousin had ....." but a real failure.  Larry

You read my mind Larry.



Spanky

This happened to me, or I should say my nephew, whom I loaned my 7MM-08 high pressure barrel to.

He had an older model SB2 NH serial number .223 that he had bought brand new, years ago, and it was pre 1999, and for some reason, or my ignorance, it didn't click with me that the factory doesn't fit high pressure barrels to pre 99 frames.

As I said, I loaned him the barrel because he wanted more gun, and when we put the barrel on his receiver, it fit tight, and we then shot it to zero in the scope, and it drove tacks.

About a week later, he was sighting in a new scope he had bought, and he called me and said that he was all over the target, and that he couldn't get the scope to zero no matter how much he adjusted it, and that he stopped shooting when he noticed that the barrel made a faint, but audible clicking noise when the gun was closed, and that he had not noticed that condition before.

Long story short, we put the original barrel back on, and it locked up tight with no evidence of ill effects, but he bought a new Handi the other day, and I bought that old rifle from him, and I took the .223 barrel off, and put my .357 mag, now max, on it, and it locks up tight to the .357 barrel, so I shall see since I just reamed it, and haven't shot it yet.

Anyway that's my story, documented or not, and not the cousin of the cousin, of the guy a buddie works with!

[dpe.ahoy]

Soon as I retire in 10 years, I'll see if I can wear one out.   Stay posted, I'll let ya know.   DP

[revbc]

Quick,

Still didn't get to group the little bugger, the rain got me today.   It really seems like it will shoot the LEs.  I'll tell ya, if he walks out at anything under 100yds, he's in trouble.  Last shot dead on elevation wise, 1" left, then the rain...................and if you know anything about Louisiana, when it rains it pours.

Bobby

[quickdtoo]

Yeah, I got some experience with rain, I don't think Louisiana has anything on western Washington in the rain department!!! 

Thanks for the update, I'll be handloading mine with 360DW brass when I shoot it next. 

Tim

[Spanky]

Can anyone show me a documented case of a Handi frame failing?  No "a friend of my 2nd cousin had ....." but a real failure.  Larry

You read my mind Larry.



Spanky

This happened to me, or I should say my nephew, whom I loaned my 7MM-08 high pressure barrel to.

He had an older model SB2 NH serial number .223 that he had bought brand new, years ago, and it was pre 1999, and for some reason, or my ignorance, it didn't click with me that the factory doesn't fit high pressure barrels to pre 99 frames.

As I said, I loaned him the barrel because he wanted more gun, and when we put the barrel on his receiver, it fit tight, and we then shot it to zero in the scope, and it drove tacks.

About a week later, he was sighting in a new scope he had bought, and he called me and said that he was all over the target, and that he couldn't get the scope to zero no matter how much he adjusted it, and that he stopped shooting when he noticed that the barrel made a faint, but audible clicking noise when the gun was closed, and that he had not noticed that condition before.

Long story short, we put the original barrel back on, and it locked up tight with no evidence of ill effects, but he bought a new Handi the other day, and I bought that old rifle from him, and I took the .223 barrel off, and put my .357 mag, now max, on it, and it locks up tight to the .357 barrel, so I shall see since I just reamed it, and haven't shot it yet.

Anyway that's my story, documented or not, and not the cousin of the cousin, of the guy a buddie works with!

This doesn't show where there was any problem with the frame. The 7-08 barrel didn't fit right.
The other barrels locked up fine on the frame so where was the problem with it?


Spanky

[trotterlg]

Anyway that's my story, documented or not, and not the cousin of the cousin, of the guy a buddie works with!

Like I said, I have never seen a frame failure that was not had by some friend of a friend's third cousin.  Larry

[Default]

Bobby ,

   You could always just use the 357 mag Maxi'd out barrel on a sb2 frame you already have ..

  Just a thought .

 I'm in the same boat thou , I traded for the 44 mag 12ga SB1 frame rifle before i knew it was a SB1 ..But no biggie there since the 44 has never been questionable for medium or large game ..  I would tell ya thou if you dont decide to maxi out the mag then just run some good reload 180 hard cast or jacketed rounds .. And as far as lower weigth bullets go , I was getting some damn good accuracy out of a 140 gr XTP IMR 4227 load i worked up for the 357 i just sold ..


    Default

[Jimbo47]

This doesn't show where there was any problem with the frame. The 7-08 barrel didn't fit right.
The other barrels locked up fine on the frame so where was the problem with it?


Spanky

WRONG!

You obviously didn't read the first part of the post, third paragraph down!

It fit right, and locked up tight with no movement at all when we first placed it on the frame, and shot it several times to first sight it in, it was a tack driver shooting about 1" to 3/4" at 100 yards.

After reapeated use, probably ten rounds or so, it became loose, not much, but it had some movement that it originally didn't have, and was opening up with the grouping of several inches.

Was it the fact that it was a low pressure early vintage receiver, and the fact that it was a high pressure barrel, which the factory won't fit high pressure barrels to these older receivers, and the fact that the more it was shot, it got looser?    

Don't know, but I wasn't going to take the chance, waiting for a catastrophic failure, so I took the barrel off, and put the original back on, and as stated it seems to fit tight, but I haven't shot it yet to confirm it's 100% good to go with the original barrel.

Anyway that's my story, take it for what it's worth, and I'm not going to change it to please anyone, but just stated the facts as to my experience.

[Spanky]

This doesn't show where there was any problem with the frame. The 7-08 barrel didn't fit right.
The other barrels locked up fine on the frame so where was the problem with it?


Spanky

WRONG!

You obviously didn't read the first part of the post, third paragraph down!

It fit right, and locked up tight with no movement at all when we first placed it on the frame, and shot it several times to first sight it in, it was a tack driver shooting about 1" to 3/4" at 100 yards.

After reapeated use, probably ten rounds or so, it became loose, not much, but it had some movement that it originally didn't have, and was opening up with the grouping of several inches.

Was it the fact that it was a low pressure early vintage receiver, and the fact that it was a high pressure barrel, which the factory won't fit high pressure barrels to these older receivers, and the fact that the more it was shot, it got looser?    

Don't know, but I wasn't going to take the chance, waiting for a catastrophic failure, so I took the barrel off, and put the original back on, and as stated it seems to fit tight, but I haven't shot it yet to confirm it's 100% good to go with the original barrel.

Anyway that's my story, take it for what it's worth, and I'm not going to change it to please anyone, but just stated the facts as to my experience.

I read the post and it says the 7-08 barrel developed some play in it. It also says you took the 7-08 barrel off and put the original barrel back on and it fit fine. Sounds like the barrel, not the frame. I'm not trying to argue about it, I'm just going by what your post says. For that matter, what is the difference between your "low pressure" sb2 frame and a brand new one other than the fact that the company changed ownership. It's called liability. It's a strange thing that "older receivers" like yours used to come with barrels chambered for 30-06 and other high pressure rounds but now they aren't any good for one. Like I said, liability.


Spanky

[quickdtoo]

Sounds like a classic case of underlug set back, not uncommon on high pressure chambered barrels. 

Tim