Advice requested

[azshooter]

I have a decision I am trying to make for my boy's first rifle - the bolt action tube mag. Marlin or the Remington 597. I like the bolt because it forces you to take more time and aim but as he gets older, the semi is convenient. Hopefully he will be like me and will keep his first gun forever. He will not be shooting without me for quite a few years so making him take his time and work on technique may not be a real issue.  I see some kids shooting semi's and it drives me crazy they just want to spray bullets rather than hit a target with the first aimed shot.   What would you choose  and why?

[John Traveler]

DEFINITELY a single-shot .22 rifle or shotgun!

First, I'd like to explain that not only was it the way I was introduced and trained in the shooting sports, but the way that several hundreds of young shooters of my acquaintenace were taught in the boy scouts, youth clubs, campings, outings, etc to the wonderful world of shooting sports.  I am a former junior and senior high school teacher and camp counselor and have helped train many youngsters to become responsible gun handlers.

A SINGLE-SHOT OR BOLT ACTION REPEATER is the one to select!

A second choice would be a pump-action or lever action .22 repeater.

1.  A first rifle should have the versatility of shooting shorts, longs, and LR cartridges.  Minimum noise and cost for the .22 shorts and .22 CB caps.  A semi-auto is awkward to use with low-power ammo.

2.  There is definitely something to the deliberate mechanical motions required to fire that first shot that makes an impression on young shooters.  The handling, loading, and working of a mechanical action is a big part of training the youngster, helping to develope his eye-hand coordination.  A big plus is that it helps him to develop the mindset, if you will, that he has deadly force in his hands and that he must always be in full control of it.

3.  Marksmanship training is of secondary importance to safe gun handling.  The shooter must master the elements of position, sight alignment, trigger and breathing control, etc.   A single shot gun forces the shooter to CONCENTRATE on making that shot count, whether the target is a tin can, a bullseye, or small game to put on the dinner table.

4.  Ownership of a semiauto .22 LR allows a new shooter to skip many of those constant reminders, and it's too easy to develop a "spray and pray" attitude toward shooting.  We've all seen many times where youngsters (not mine!) were handed a brick of 500 .22 LR cartridges and a semi-auto to shoot, they came back 20 minutes later and asked for more ammo!  Now, that is not only economically unsound, but just ask yourself WHERE did all those projectiles GO if the shooter fired so quickly and reloaded too?

5.  In survival/military training, primitive tools and weapons are provided provided to force the trainee to THINK and develop tactical and stalking skills.  Frontier woodsmen types had to develop their survival and woodcraft skills because they had primitive tools!

Enough of the lecture circuit.  Make that first rifle a single-shot or a manual repeater!

HTH
John

[jh45gun]

I reccomend a Henry Lever action. He might like this better than the bolt gun a lot nicer looking and very accurate as well plus you have to work the lever so that would slow him down also.   I cannot say enough on how nice the Henrys shoot and how accurate they are for a lever action plus nice walnut wood and a very smooth action. If you have a open mind on the action of the gun you cannot go wrong with the Henry every one I have reccomended to get one has been satisfied with them. Myself included. If a pump is more to your likeing they make a great pump also. I cannot say enough good things  about the Henry Company and their Customer Service is excellent. I have not had to deal with them in that case but any gun you buy from them if you have a problem they will fix or replace and do it fast and courteous. Jim

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I'm currently introducing my girlfriend's boys to shooting----the only 2 guns that come out of my safe for them to use are a Ruger Single-Six and a Browning BL-22-----mainly because they are slow to load and require you manually operate the action. I can make that lever work darn near like a semi---but I've never showed them that---want em thinkin it's a slow gun.

They are wanting to shoot my cooler stuff----but it will be quite a while before I let that happen---right now its safety and marksmanship.

Get the bolt action.

[jh45gun]

While you can shoot a lever fast most folks are not the rifleman and shoot a lever action normal which is slow. Some folks think that hammer guns are not safe and yea if mishandled they are not. They are not any more unsafe though than any other guns. some of older Winchesters were not safe due to worn parts and stiff springs but with a new 22 lever that is not the case. For a younger shooter that hammer is a easy thing to see also as far as if it is ready to shoot or not. Jim

[SHW]

Put me in the same boat with John.  I agree a bolt action singe shot would be hard to beat.  I still have the one that I shot as a kid.  John summed it up very well. Good advice.

[jh45gun]

You guys are right the single shot is a great first gun. BUT!!! I have never seen a kid yet that did not yearn for a repeater after he got tired of that single shot expecially when all his buddys have repeaters. As far as safety goes that first shot is the one that makes the difference if he screws up with one shot in the chamber that second one will not make a difference if you have to lever it in or use the bolt. A semi auto is different 2 or more shots can be shot by reflex action. Not so with a manually operated gun. I disagree with manual repeaters not being safe they are just as safe as a single shot and a lot more desirable when the kid gets older. I had a single shot 22 as a kid and  I could not wait to get a repeater. Kinda funny as I have a Rolling Block and a Encore now as I am older and like single shots but when I was a kid I wanted more than that one shot. I think most kids feel that way and if taught good gun safety there is no reason why they cannot handle a repeater safely. Jim

[gunnut69]

No question about it, the 22 single shot is the way to go..  I prefer the winchester M67.  They are quite available on the used gun market and are quite safe.  They must be maunally cocked for each shot and are usually fantastically accurate..  I guess I am prejudiced but of course that's what I started with.  I let the rifle I strarted shooting with get away..  I've bought M67's over and over (I'm down to only 4 now) but it's not the same..  they are all good shooters but I wish I had that special one back!!

[jh45gun]

Well to be fair you could always give your son several choices and let him decide what he wants after all it will be his gun. IF he goes with a semi auto  and does the spray and pray thing wich you do not like you can always take it away from him until he grows up a bit. But then from what I have seen at the range some folks never grow up. At least your son has a teacher that wants to teach him right. I treasured the time I spent with my dad hunting and shooting, fishing ect. jim

[TimW]

Another option would be a CZ Scout....They come with a single shot adapter,then when he's ready you can swap out for the standard mag. They are accurate and fairly easy to tune when the time comes. Mine outshoots my Marlin 880SQ every day of the week. :lol:

Just my 02¢

[JoeRobbins]

I started my son out on the Rossi Combo. It came with the 22lr and 410 barrels. Now he is shooting a Lakefield Mark II bolt action repeater and doing quite well with it also.

Every now and then I'll let him shoot the 597 supervised and I have had him behind the Ruger 10/17 that was converted from a 10/22 magnum. Again supervised. I've even let him take a prarie dog out at 200 yards with the Reminging 223. Supervised.

The only rifle I'll let him shoot on his own are the Rossi and the Lakefield. As he gets older, I'll give him a bit more rope, so to speak. This is the same way my Dad and Grandpa did with me. You can touch and shoot, but only when Dad is around.

Joe

[Lee D.]

I see it a little differently.  
     I would buy either a lever or semi.  When we were kids we wanted to shoot so much we would accept anything, but now with so many kids being lukewarm about shooting sports I want to make sure it is fun.  I have done quite a bit of informal training and I find that after teaching the basics (saftey, sights, trigger control) from a bench it really warms them up if they get to roll  a tin can around.  Another real good target is a ball of aluminum foil.  With al. cans a lot of times a hit won't move it but, the ball bounces no matter what.
     Also, I like to start with low power scopes or red dot because they are easier to use, then progress to iron sights.  Seems backwards to us old guys but think about what it takes to learn to shoot accurately with a set of open sights.  And only second to saftey you want the first experiences to be positive.
     Also I see no reason to use short or longs.  They are way more expensive and you ARE going to insist on ear protection anyway.

[gunnut69]

If you spend time with your son or any youngster they will love it.  If we have a problem today, it's that we're so busi with jobs and other things we sometimes forget the important stuff.  Spend time with your kids..  Remember it doesn't have to be fun...  I believe all kids should learn to use open sights before optics.  My daughter learned to shoot with a Norinco SKS.  The trigger was and is horrible..  We burned a lot of the cheap Chinese ammo and she learned to acquire the sight picture and squeeze the trigger, quickly.  Today she shoots a 280 Remington for deer.  Custom wood and a well tuned trigger..  She has yet to need a second shot on any deer,,  She's a better shooter than I am!!  She wanted to no once why she couldn't shoot the scoped Winchester I had let her try, all the time.  'It's so much easier'.  I pointed out that everything in life won't be easy and when she had at least become profient with the irons, we would see about a scope.  A couple of years later I gave a scoped 452 LUX for Christmas...she was ecstatic..  She's studying to be a vet now.  I asked her once if she thought all those years ago she'd be where she is today and she answered 'no'.  Then she added, 'but I knew if something was worthwhile it wouldn't neccessarily be easy'.

[Lee D.]

Hate to take this attitude but.  What do you mean it doesn't have to be fun?  If it isn't and they feel that shooting is annoying and frustrating why would they want to do it again?  I think the first few sessions should be about saftey and fun.  Then get technical if you want but give them a positive experience to start.  Some people are excited enough to  work thru the slow stuff but someone who is just "sort of interested" needs the positve to come back and learn.

[Lee D.]

Short add on.  This has just been my experiece with new shooters old or young.  I have seen some get so frustrated trying to line up a rear sight, front sight, and target that they never found the fun in it.  Especialy true of pistol shooting.

[azshooter]

I appreciate all the answers and the time taken to reply.  I read everyones and considered your input.  So to cut to the chase, I went with the 597 for the following reasons.

While this is his first rifle, it is not his first shooting.  My son has been shooting my semi- this summer and we have not had a spray lead incident.  I have made it clear to him that we won't  either :grin:.  He has also been going through the motions all summer with my Daisy Powerline 880 - single load - pellets only and 10 pumps.  So he is used to taking his time and getting on target before pulling the trigger.  He has been shooting with iron sights all summer and we will continue to work on them.  Come Christmas there is probably a scope on the way.

John Traveler - Great reply - I agree with what you said for a first time shooter.

[gunnut69]

So unless we allow lead spraying it's not fun?  Perhaps we should let them use lazer sights then they can have real fun..  Maybe paint ball where they can learn to turn the gun on it's side and just shoot at each other would be fun....  Guns and shooting are fun.. Just being with your kid and doing things together is fun...isn't it??  Don't teach a kid that shooting fun is just popping caps!!  Teach them responsibility.  Teach them safety.  Teach them the skills needed to use a rifle well and safely.  Start with pellet guns or single loading 22 rimfires.  Don't make them learn, let them learn..  We try too hard to make it easy for our kids when we all know that most things that are truly worthwhile require work!!  You want a kid to enjoy learning let them strive..  Only by working for something does it have meaning... Start with targets close to the shooter and by all means make them interesting.  I would strongly recommend targets that react when hit.  I like saltine crackers.  They are cheap and almost anyhit will create satisfactory destructiuon... A single shot and a bunch of kids builds anticipation, waiting for your turn...safety first!!!  Learning to shoot should not be casual it needs to be structured and safe... Teach and they will learn.  You don't have to be their friend, you are their father(or mother).  Don't press the kid, but take them out and teach them how to use those iron sights.  Don't you remember the thrill of looking through a telescope sight for the first time??  I do.  I taught my daughter to shoot a 22 SS first.  She used an SKS to learn trigger control.  The gun or it's action type isn't the point.  The point is they need to earn the knowledge.   She loves shooting and hunting and is a remarkable shot.  Most of all we teach respect.  Each other, the weapon, just life.  Please don't teach your kid to always take the easy road..it's not always the best way..  Use the experience to teach responsibility and ethics.  I'm sorry if I've offended but I've seen kids that only take the easy way.. Why not sell drugs?  It's the easiest way to make money..  Hey what the heck, a little jail time's nothing..  We even had a kid who held 'rave'.  Repleat with naked 13 year old girls and drugs.  Why?  His FATHER said he held the rave as the easiest way to finance his college.  I wonder what the fathers of those girls would say.  I wonder why they were out a 3 Am.  I wonder where that boy will end up....  Oh!  and I'm not sorry about MY attitude.  I was a cop for while and I learned.  If you don't teach your kid, someone will.