Smith & Wesson Model 10 Shoots Too High

[fccordinator]

This afternoon, I took my recently acquired Smith & Wesson Model 10-10 to the sportsmen's club shooting range. At 25 yards, the handgun was shooting very high and to the left. Two different loads were tried: Remington 125 grain +P jacketed hollow points and Sellier & Bellot 148 grain wadcutters. Point of impact in the same general area in both cases, although the Remingtons were somewhat closer to the point of aim. This revolver is a heavy barrel four incher with fixed sights. I was using a 6 O'clock hold with the bullseye atop the front sight. Any suggestions on getting POI and POA closer together would be greatly appreciated.   

[John Traveler]

S&W fixed sight .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers are sighted for 158 grain factory ammunition.

Your statement that two different bullet weights(125 grain +P HP and 148 grain WC) have a point of impact "in the same general area" indicates that you may be having grip inconsistencies, i.e. "heeling".  Try shooting from sandbagged rest, supporting the gun using both hands, single action.

I would expect the 148 WC to closer to point of aim, and the 125 HP to be below poi.  Or, have another shooter try the gun and report back on poi using 158 grain factory ammo.

[fccordinator]

Thank you for the reply. I will give your suggestions a try.

[Mohawk]

 Well, I had a similar problem. I sight my adjustable sighted revolvers for the 6 'oclock hold. It is more natural for me. But, when I would switch to the Model 10 that same hold puts the shots very low, because the fixed sights with the 158gr load shoots "on", meaning the front sight blots the target out. And you might want to make sure you are using your dominate eye. I've seen that cause serious accuracy problems from right to left and vice versa. My ex-wife has to shoot left handed eventhough she's right handed due to her dominate is backwards from her strong side.

[Foggy]

the thing with fixed sights are  all the little consistant mistakes you make  show up because you can't adjust them away. that's not saying you are a bad shot. we all have those litle mistakes. a model 10 is a real shooter.

[bilmac]

Maybe it is a gun that I had previously owned, naw I never had a 4 incher.  Anytime I shoot fixed sight guns they shoot low for me. I suppose because I hold them pretty tight. It's easy to fix shooting low though, just whittle the front sight off some.  You might try shooting some fast, maybe +P, 110s. The theory is a light bullet causes the gun to recoil less and gets out of the barrel sooner so the gun is pointed lower when the bullet leaves. Maybe some beefy rubber grips that don't allow the gun to torque so much could help.

Trouble is you could have a lot of dough tied up in trying this and that and still never get a cure. And if the 110s work, is that the load you will always want to shoot in that gun? That's why I never buy fixed sight guns anymore. I just can't figure this craze for Vaquero Rugers.

I remember a Skeeter Skelton story, He was an armorer or something for the Boarder Patrol and they were using fixed sight Smiths. He said he fixed shooting right or left by bending the front sight.

[fccordinator]

The front sight on this Model 10 is just a nub, not much to bend. It is also the round butt model. I do plan to replace the factory wooden grips with some beefier after market grips to make revolver more user friendly. Any suggestions as to which, preferably rubber, grips to get. Thanks in advance for your advice.

[bilmac]

Maybe somebody did file the front. Hogues is one brand we used to use, but I thenk they had finger groves. Most people liked them, I never did.

[ButlerFord45]

The front sight on this Model 10 is just a nub, not much to bend. It is also the round butt model. I do plan to replace the factory wooden grips with some beefier after market grips to make revolver more user friendly. Any suggestions as to which, preferably rubber, grips to get. Thanks in advance for your advice.

I think you may have found your problem, the front sight on my 10-7 is .320", nearly 1/3 of an inch.  May be time for a bit of solder.

[mcwoodduck]

Before you do anything to the gun.
Dry fire the revolver a bit.  Practice keeping the front sight on a small target as you shoot either single or double action.  Next go to the range and have a buddy load your revolver with either ammo and some empty cases from the same ammo.  Do not let him tell you how many empty cases are in the gun.  That way as you rotate the cylinder you will not know when an empty is comming up ot how many of them there are.  When you hit an empty and you are not still on the target you can figure out if you are anticipating recoil, squeezing with your whole hand or applying too much pressure in holding the revolver.
Hope this was helpful.  It is how I learned to shoot my 44 mag.  Helped greatly.  Had a small group of Police officers I used this with to teach them how to shoot the J frame 357 Mags back in the early 90's when they forst came out.

[S.B.]

Well, I had a similar problem. I sight my adjustable sighted revolvers for the 6 'oclock hold. It is more natural for me. But, when I would switch to the Model 10 that same hold puts the shots very low, because the fixed sights with the 158gr load shoots "on", meaning the front sight blots the target out. And you might want to make sure you are using your dominate eye. I've seen that cause serious accuracy problems from right to left and vice versa. My ex-wife has to shoot left handed eventhough she's right handed due to her dominate is backwards from her strong side.

I hear a lot of guys say they sight their handguns to a 6 OCLOCK hold but, dead on works best for me?
Steve

[bilmac]

To me a 6 o'clock hold can only apply to round bullseye target shooting where the size of the bull is known. In it's true meaning a 6 o'clock hold means that you hold on the bottom edge of the black, but the bullets hit the center. The gun is actually sighted high by the radius of the black. Today I can't think of any handgun target shooting that uses round bullseye targets except whatever they do at the Olympics.

Since deer and rabbits don't come with 6 inch round circles attached, I don't think you would want a field gun sighted that way. I'm guessing that Mohawk means that he sights his guns to hit right at the top of the post.

[Mohawk]

To me a 6 o'clock hold can only apply to round bullseye target shooting where the size of the bull is known. In it's true meaning a 6 o'clock hold means that you hold on the bottom edge of the black, but the bullets hit the center. The gun is actually sighted high by the radius of the black. Today I can't think of any handgun target shooting that uses round bullseye targets except whatever they do at the Olympics.

Since deer and rabbits don't come with 6 inch round circles attached, I don't think you would want a field gun sighted that way. I'm guessing that Mohawk means that he sights his guns to hit right at the top of the post.

  Exactly, bilmac. I never heard of the bullseye sighting, but again, I don't shoot bullseye targets.

[Horsefeathers]

S&W Military & Police revolvers were sighted in to print Center of a 4 inch bullseye at 25 yards with 158gr.Round nosed lead bullets . I first experienced a deviation from this When I got a M&P with a heavy barrel fitted to it by S&W before they became part of their standard inventory. They had a special run supposidly for the Canadian Border Patrol. My gun printed to point of aim so the front sight was filed down a bit to effect a center impact when aiming at the bottom of the bull.It became the Model 10 HB. Horsefeathers.

[WILDCATT]

The NRA still has bullseye compitition and so does the USRA.and so does the Camp Perry National matches.I dont shoot bullseye any more but did up to 2000.
when I moved south,I would still but there is no club close to me.I use a S&W mod 10 bull with Bomar rib.and a S&W mod 52.plus a AMT 45 longslide.

[Hank08]

Wildcats right, NRA bullseye is alive and well and one of the most demanding shooting diciplines and one in which you use the 6 oclock hold.  Try hitting a 3" target at 50 yds. 90 times in a 2700 shoot along with 180 other timed and rapid fire shots all one handed.  A great teacher of consentration and trigger control.  Bilmac is also right, 6 oclock isn't for rabbits or Deer or other animals.  I haven't shot Bullseye for awhile either but still have my guns. Hi Standard
Citation 71/2" 22lr. Colt 1911 38 spl., and Colt 1911 .45 acp.
H08

[mattmillerrx]

I have the victory model ( same as 10).  I have tried several loads, and a couple types of factory ammo all with 158 gr bullets cause that is what I heard they were sighted for.  All of it shoots high, I am one that dose not like the 6 oclock hold but even with that I am a little high.  I am not yet done trying loads.  When someone gets some bullets in stock I will try something else.  I am wondering how these were sighted for the military and if it was any different than the model 10.

I am also hoping the gun will group better with another weight bullet.  Currently I am putting up 5-6in groups at 25 yrds both offhand and off a rest ( not a ransom or anthing just a casual bench).  What is the usual out of the victory model?

[fccordinator]

Several months ago, I started this thread about my newly acquired Smith & Wesson Model 10 shooting too high. The suggested remedies were tried. In the meantime, I installed a set of Pachmayr grips. Various bullet weights and brands of ammunition have been tested. As luck would have it, the budget priced American Eagle 158 gr. round nose lead ammo shot as well as any and to the point of aim. A lot of practice followed. It seems to have paid off, too. Today, I shot for qualification. I scored 275 out of 300 in the pouring rain. Not great but good enough. Thanks for all of your help.