Author Topic: can my employer search my vehicle ?? (Read 2768 times)

justice · « **on:** August 21, 2003, 02:42:48 PM »

my employer has a policy against firearms on company property-if my pistol is in my personal vehicle locked in my glove box (not company owned or business operated vehicle)can they make me let them search my vehicle for a weapon ?? i know anyone can make up anything they want as far as suspicion-but if they have nothing to go on they should have not have the right to search my vehicle-especially a locked area such as a glove box. i dont think they should have the right to make me travel to and from work unarmed-i am not talking about carrying a weapon into the place of business-i am talking about keeping it in my car in a secure compartment in a locked vehicle. i live in north carolina-any lawyers or experts care to help

jhm · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:11:24 PM »

Justice : I am not a lawyer or any kind of expert but I would be willing to bet that if you are parked on your employers property they would have that right but if parked on the public roadway I would say that they cant.

JIM

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:24:37 PM »

First, they have to have a written policy concerning searching the property of employees. Normally, a vehicle is not considered for search, however a desk or locker would be if it is provided by the employer and they have a known policy stating that they can search your desk or locker. I wouldn't tempt it, however. If you do bring a gun on company property, I would not tell a soul regardless of how much you might trust them. If I had a CCW, I wouldn't mention it to anyone either, particularly anyone in management.

As an aside, you may refuse any search. The only thing you risk is termination of employment. They cannot forcibly open your car.

Dan C

KN · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:37:06 PM »

Unless your employer is some form of law enforcement agency then No they can not serch your car. They have the right to tell you to leave if you don't consent or if they have some reason, such as the breifcase on the front seat with all the wires sticking out, they can call the police and posibly they can search. But your employer has no right to search your car without your consent. ( It happened where I work, friend of mine had a shotgun in the back of his super cab ranger and a guard saw it and opened his vehiche. ) After he threatened legal action for entering his car without his consent they politely gave him back his shotgun and asked him not to bring it to work any more. ( he had been hunting just prior to going to work ) His union legal rep told him they had no right to enter anyones vehicle unless they had permision, only the cops can do that with just cause. KN

briarpatch · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2003, 03:40:49 PM »

As with employeement in most companys. If you go back and review your application at time of hire, you will more than likely find you signed that right over to them.

myronman3 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2003, 04:46:05 PM »

well i would say that dan had it right. tell no one and keep it to your self. and if they want to search your vehicle, just refuse without giving a reason. if they try to do it anyway, call the police just as if a criminal were violating your personal property. a vehicle is personal property and they have no right to invade it. still, follow dan's advice.

Chris · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2003, 06:21:32 PM »

briarpatch is right. If you agreed to abide by all company polices, as a condition of employment, they have every right to search your vehicle if this was clearly stated on the front end...and they must have reasonable cause.

Reasonable cause goes beyond just mere suspicion...it must be something that a "reasonable" person would think is justified. You will also find that it will take more than one manager's opinion to conduct a search...most organizations will insist that there is a "consensus of opinion", before a search is conducted.

Anyway, when in doubt, leave it home...even if you have a CCW. And by all means, if you have a CCW permit, keep it to yourself.

My two cents...

Be Safe! ...Chris

shooter · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2003, 06:23:51 PM »

I work for ibm in ny and we have a "no firearm"policy in you car for the past 10 yrs.I am told they have no right searching your vehicle if they suspect you are hiding a firearm in your car.If it cant be seen(in your glove box) then they have no right to search it without your permission.If lets say you have a pickup and are one of those fellas that like to advertise you have a rifle in your truck by displaying it in your window,security will most likely ask you to take it home.We have these warnings all the time at the start of hunting season here in fall broadcast over an internal closed circuit tv system in breakrooms. shooter

TScottO · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2003, 06:55:42 PM »

I would think it depends alot on the papers you signed when you took employment with your company. If the papers you signed when you first became an employee confirms that you agree to "no firearms" on company property they may have a right to search your car. Your human resources may be able to provide you more accurate information on this subject though i sure would hate to ask them about it.

My last company of employment had full time security guards and they searched several vehicles when theft was thought to be occuring.

Scott

securitysix · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2003, 05:23:09 AM »

Check your employee handbook or ask your manager to show you where in the company policy it says that. It really depends on the company itself.

For example: The company I work for does not allow firearms in the building or in any vehicle that is being used for company business. You may, however, have a gun in your vehicle if it is NOT being used for company business. The building where our office space is located does not allow firearms inside the building, either, but allows them in your vehicle in the parking lot. Edited to add: The guards in this building are armed.

Example 2: The company my father works for does not allow firearms on their property, including in the parking lot. If you park in their parking lot, you cannot have a gun in your vehicle. I know of several people who violated this policy for years without the company finding out, but some people just don't want to take the risk. Edited to add: This policy of no guns on company property applies to the guards as well.

1GLOCK · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2003, 07:36:09 AM »

Being that your company has a policy on firearms (writen I would assume) I would be willing to bet that if they caught you with a firearm on company property you would be terminated, regardless of how you got caught. You may be able to fight them and get your job back but I wouldnt count on it.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2003, 10:42:40 AM »

Justice;

I was pressed for time when I first responded to your question. I have more time now.

I'm a Director for Security for a large provate corporation. We have an in-house proprietary security force. In the state of Illinois, our security officers have no powers of arrest, search and seizure or detention beyond that of a private person. So, in the state of Illinois, there is no right to search a vehicle for any reason. We must first have the permission of the vehicle's owner - even if a crime involving the vehicle was witnesses by the security officer. In the state of Missouri, that is different. On the premises for which the officer is licensed, they carry the same authority as a sworn officer of the law. Vehicle searches are, however, still normally carried out by permission only.

If you are on a premises that is gated or fenced, the corporation may have the authority to deny the vehicle exit right if they determine a crime has been commited on their property and the evidence is in the vehicle...particularly if theft from the company is suspected. In that case, a voluntary search would be requested first, followed by a call to the authorities. Then it becomes a legal question.l

Regardless, the company must have an established and written policy concerning searching of personal property on company property. Desks, lockers, computers, phones are all open to search. The policy must have been made known to the employee at some point. Either in their employee handbook or during training, or the myriad of forms an employee fills out at the time they are hired. Also, clearly posted notices can suffice in some instances.

It may be that the company has a policy of random searched of lunch boxes or purses either entering or leaving the premises. That is legal. It may pertain to vehicles that are parked on company property as well. In most cases, there is off company parking made available.

In answer to your question, we can't answer you. It varies from state to state, company to company. If the company has a policy against firearms on company property, then undoubtedly they have a policy about searches as well. Do you research.

Dan C

myronman3 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2003, 11:44:37 AM »

well there certainly are a lot of opinions! i guess to be sure you should make an appointment with a lawyer in your state and inquire what the law says. companies can make all the policys they want but it dont trump the law. i would think that for between 20-40 bucks you would have the correct answer; if it is that important to you.

DzrtRat · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2003, 12:15:57 PM »

Now, this might vary from state to state (but I don't think so), but in Arizona even cops can't search your vehicle without a search warrant unless you give them permission. If you are arrested they can also search your vehicle "subject to arrest", or that's my understanding.

That said, it's also illegal to bring a gun on private property that is posted "no guns allowed". From there the legal, moral, and safety issues must be answered by you. If you take a gun on private property that is posted against it, you are no longer a law abiding citizen, but are in fact breaking the law. How dangerous is the drive to and from work? If it's dangerous enough to warrant breaking the law, then you may want to do just that, but only you can make that determination.

I'm attending college, and I keep a valid CCW. A violation of carrying a firearm on school grounds is a felony, which would not only get my ccw pulled, but may in fact affect me being able to legally possess firearms at all. There's a highway to and from the college so I go there unarmed, then when I get out of class I return home and pick up my carry gun. No one at the college would be legally entitled to search my truck either, but you never know what will happen. What if someone broke into my truck and stole the gun? Do I then report a gun stolen from my truck at the college to the cops? What if the perp then used it, were caught, and told the cops how he got it? For that matter, what if I were pulled over for a traffic violation leaving the college and the cop happens to ask if I have any firearms in the vehicle? Remember that lying to the officer is also a crime.

It may pay to simply carry some pepper mace to work, but only you can make that choice. Good luck!

~Rat

les hemby · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2003, 02:23:27 PM »

it may be easier to park off co. property, then they cant say much

crawfish · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2003, 03:44:33 PM »

justice,
you say that you hold a CCW from NC well then YOU KNOW that you are in voliation of the law if you bring you pistol into ANYPLACE that has a no guns sign posted or a place named in the law as a no carry zone. by carring your gun to work you risk your CCW for life. i too have a CCW here in NC. i also work at Ft Bragg my pistol stays home. i'd be willing to bet a paycheck that your company has a "randon" search policy and that you signed that piece of paper when you were hired.

justice · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2003, 04:01:11 PM »

Quote from: crawfish

justice,
you say that you hold a CCW from NC
NO-I DID NOT SAY THAT.

no guns sign posted or a place named in the law as a no carry zone
NO SIGNS-NOT A FEDERAL BLDG,BANK,SCHOOL,BAR.

i'd be willing to bet a paycheck that your company has a "randon" search policy and that you signed that piece of paper when you were hired.
SIGN IT OVER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT, BUT I DONT KNOW IF THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TO OR BECAUSE VEHICLE IS ON THEIR PROPERTY. IF MY VEHICLE IS BROKEN INTO THEN I AM RESPONSIBLE, NOT THEM, AND IT WOULD BE MY HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE THAT WOULD COVER THE CLAIM, NOT MY AUTO INSURANCE THEREFORE MY VEHICLE IS AN EXTENSION OF MY HOME. I DO NOT THINK IT IS RIGHT THAT A COMPANY CAN TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS WITH ITS RULES-COMPANY VEHICLE I CAN UNDERSTAND-BUT MY PERSONAL VEHICLE, HELL NO !!! PLEASE RE-READ POST AND HELP ADVISE-I WILL BE CONTACTING AN NRA ATTORNEY TO ASK THIS QUESTION-JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO THINK IT OVER AND GIVE YOUR BEST OPINIONS OR DIRECT KNOWLEDGE.

THANK YOU

JUSTICE

(CAPITOL LETTERS USED NOT FOR SHOUTING BUT JUST TO STAND OUT FROM PREVIOUS POST THAT WAS QUOTED.

lostone1413 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2003, 06:25:03 PM »

might depend were you work. I retired from the State of Illinois and you had to sign a paper before you hired in thhat when your car is on their porperty they have a right to search it. A lot of goverment agencies have random searches of the cars. Over at the penitentiary they have a lot of searches. Their they just fire them Once you agree to let them search your car on their property it's another ball game. Another thing the state of Illinois does if you work for them and refuse to take the random drug test you are fired and if you take it and test positive you are fired no rehab. I don't know if that is all agencys or not but if you had a CDL or worked in the prison you had to take the test

Savage · « **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2003, 02:00:52 AM »

Most of the large companys have a "No Firearms Allowed on Premises" policy. And of course "Premises" includes all company property including the parking lot. Unless they have a random search polocy, or they decide to search all the vehicles in the lot, I would say your secret is safe. If they have such a polocy it must be posted in prominent places and eventually in the Employee Handbook. If you feel you must keep your weapon in your vehicle under these circumstances, I would store it in the vehicle in the manner required by your state law for transporting firearms.
Stay Safe,
Savage

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2003, 06:14:37 AM »

Look you guys can talk this until you are blue in the face and not one single thing will have been accomplished.

If you want LEGAL advice go see a lawyer who practices in the state in which you are asking the question about. Anything else is just opinion and you know what they say about opinions. It definitely applies in this case.

Don't seek legal advice on this site. It isn't here.

GB

Horsefeathers · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2003, 06:25:24 PM »

Justice, You cant carry on private property if the owner objects. They must post a sign at all entrances to the premises giving notice. The malls andsome individal astablishments posted the signs and they were boycotted by ccw holders. Some of them soon rescinded that demand. Are far as an employer goes you dont have to work for them. Horsefeathers...

1GLOCK · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2003, 08:31:19 AM »

Graybeard's got it. See a Lawyer!