Author Topic: Finally took my Sidekick to the range and came home with a few questions. (Read 1602 times)

jcal73 · « **on:** January 07, 2009, 12:22:06 AM »

Hi all! and thanks to graybeard for a great site as well as all of the others who post here so the uneducated like me can learn!
My only previous ML experience was with a USA Knight and only used musket caps and pyrodex powder and that was very limited.
As the title says I finally took my sidekick to the range and boy do I like it!

I shot it with 150grns of 777 (3 Pellets) with 777 209 primers and the Hornady Locknload sabots with 250grn sst. I thought that this would not do so well by looking at other posts, but I ended up getting about 2inch groups at 100yds.Good enough for me as I am a meat hunter. My gun must be a little different maybee?

I have a few questions about it.

1. How can I stop all of the crud from getting in the primer area?

2. How can I keep some of the crud out of the action?

3. Is there something I am doing incorrectly

Any advise would be greatly appreciated and also any corrections that some think I may need to make would also be welcomed.

Thanks again to everyone for making this such a great site!

Jeff

carbineman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:49:11 AM »

Quote from: jcal73 on January 07, 2009, 12:22:06 AM

Hi all! and thanks to graybeard for a great site as well as all of the others who post here so the uneducated like me can learn!
My only previous ML experience was with a USA Knight and only used musket caps and pyrodex powder and that was very limited.
As the title says I finally took my sidekick to the range and boy do I like it! I shot it with 150grns of 777 (3 Pellets) with 777 209 primers and the Hornady Locknload sabots with 250grn sst. I thought that this would not do so well by looking at other posts, but I ended up getting about 2inch groups at 100yds.Good enough for me as I am a meat hunter. My gun must be a little different maybee?

I have a few questions about it.

1. How can I stop all of the crud from getting in the primer area?I don't think you can stop this. I never fired my sidekick with the supplied breech plug and primer holders. I switched mine over to the 25 acp primer system available from Precision Rifle. With 777 being a crud depositing powder, most of the crud or at least 99% of it stays in the barrel and breechplug area.

2. How can I keep some of the crud out of the action? Explained above

3. Is there something I am doing incorrectlyThose that still use the standard breechplug can tell you more about this, as I do not have the 209 primer experience they would. Busta will probably post here and he can tell you more along with the other more experienced muzzleloading shooters.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated and also any corrections that some think I may need to make would also be welcomed.

Thanks again to everyone for making this such a great site!

Jeff

jenkst · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:39:42 AM »

jcal73; Get the 25acp breachplug and use the small rifle primers and try useing loose ff or fff tripple seven powder. Start with about 80 grains (volume) . If it don't group, then up the powder five or ten grains and shoot again. But don't go over 120 grains. 120 grains is the max. for this powder. The 25acp breach plug is a little expensive but it keeps things much cleaner. If you're thinking about useing the new 209BH powder, then the 25acp breachplug is not a good idea. The primers are not hot enough nor reliable. They probably aren't hot enough for the 777 pellets but work fine with lose 777 and save you some money. I have'nt tried pellets with mine but trippleseven lose is a winner. Iam thinking you might have a sore sholder after shooting three pellets? You got a great muzzleloader.

jcal73 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:43:06 AM »

Yes my right shoulder is a little sore!

I will try the 777 loose and the 25acp plug as soon as funds permit. I no nothing about reloading and was wandering if i need to get a trimmer to cut the brass to length as well as the rest of the stuff required to use the 25acp. The barrel was no problem to clean, but the breach and the action areas were a mess. It was a little amusing to squeeze the first round off and watch the other guys at the range look over in wonder!

carbineman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:24:42 PM »

jcal, The 25acp brass would not have to be trimmed. Some do trim it however. I prime and deprime on my press. Others use the Lee hand primer to prime. To deprime make a small hole in a board that the 25 acp brass fits into and then a smaller hole inside that hole for the spent primer to fall into and just tap the primer from inside the case with a small pin punch to knock it out.

jcal73 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:43:10 PM »

Thanks for the replies! when I get the rest of the stuff you guys outlined I will try to report back.
Thanks again
Jeff

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2009, 02:27:14 AM »

You could try some different 209 primers that produce less fouling.

jcal73 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:29:41 AM »

I have been doing allot of reading, I was thinking about the different 209 too. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jeff

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:49:31 AM »

The Winchester 777 primer is supposed to be clean from what I understand.

I would switch to loose powder & reduce the charge. Pellets almost never produce best accuracy and they are expensive.

MI.sabot · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:06:10 AM »

jcal73:

You didn't say if your Sidekick was scoped or not, but nonetheless 2" at 100 yds is very respectable for your first time out. If you intend to continue using pellets, you might find your groupings to tighten (while saving your shoulder & wallet from some unnecessary discomfort) by just using 2 pellets instead of 3. The doe pictured at the far left was taken with my 25ACP Sidekick using 85 gr. of loose 777 powder which is the equivalent of using two 50 gr. pellets with a 250 gr. Shockwave (aka Hornady SST). This was a complete pass thru, dropping the deer in its tracks at 130 yds. In other words, it was more than enough to do the job at that distance and I wouldn't hesitate taking it out to 150. I'll also assume that another benefit of using 2 pellets vs. 3 would be that some of the fouling problems you’ve experienced would decrease by virtue of there being less powder to burn.

In the long run, I would highly recommend the 25ACP conversion if you can swing it. $100 should get you everything you need....breech plug, brass, priming & de-priming tools. For me, the lack-of-mess, the outstanding accuracy and the economics of using loose powder has been well worth it.

Just some additional reading:
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,107063.0.html
http://www.prbullet.com/nef.htm
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,160472.0.html

jcal73 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:43:19 AM »

Thanks MI!
It is scoped with a Leupold 2X7X33 VXII ML scope.
I'm going to keep my load as is for now as our season lasts until the end of Jan. here in AL and I know how it hits. After deer season is over I am going back to the drawing board and I plan on trying allot of different loads. I was also thinking of BH209 if hubbards will try out the breach plug for a 209 carrierless setup. I emailed him yesterday about a new ram rod and also ask him about the breachplug.
He said that he was going to try some "things" maybee in April.
Thanks again to all,
Jeff

jcal73 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:24:03 AM »

Small update.
I ordered the 25acp kit, 50 extra brass, and the priming kit from R&P Muzzleloading. Shipping and all were less than $100.
Now I just have to get the CCI small rifle primers and some loose 777!

Thanks again,
Jeff

MI.sabot · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2009, 10:41:15 AM »

I think you'll be very happy with your decision.

carbineman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2009, 12:38:51 PM »

Quote from: jcal73 on January 09, 2009, 05:24:03 AM

Small update.
I ordered the 25acp kit, 50 extra brass, and the priming kit from R&P Muzzleloading. Shipping and all were less than $100.
Now I just have to get the CCI small rifle primers and some loose 777!

Thanks again,
Jeff

Jeff, just a little info for you. I have had trouble igniting 90 grains of 777 ffg with CCI 450 small rifle magnum primers. The standard CCI small rifle primer is designated the 400. I have been using Remington 7 1/2 small rifle benchrest primers with zero problems.....

jcal73 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2009, 03:45:39 PM »

Thanks Carbineman.
I just got back from china-mart and they had a clearance on ML stuff. I got 3 cans of 777 ffg for 15 each! and various other things such as bullets for 5 each!

Thanks for the info on the primers, I'm going to a local store that sells reloading stuff tomorrow to try to pic up some primers.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Busta · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2009, 09:10:51 PM »

Quote from: MI.sabot on January 09, 2009, 10:41:15 AM

I think you'll be very happy with your decision.

+1

jcal73 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2009, 07:57:52 AM »

No luck on finding any small rifle primers!

No one has any and now nobody can back order any!

I guess this will have to wait until somebody has primers.

Jeff

carbineman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:21:51 AM »

Jeff, where are you located? (City-State) Someone here would probably borrow or sell you a hundred primers. You would probably have to drive a little but 100-200 primers would take you a bit to shoot up.

jcal73 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:14:26 AM »

I'm in Heflin AL, Between Birmingham and Atlanta on I-20.

Thanks for the suggestion,
Jeff

carbineman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:58:17 PM »

Jeff, I would post on the handloading forum looking for 100 small rifle magnum primers preferably Rem or Win. See what happens. There are lots of Alabama guys here. Also check out the States part of the forum and that might help as well.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2009, 12:01:34 PM »

Its kinda late, but I also suggest the 25ACP breech plug!!

Its unbelievable how clean and effective this little thing is!! I don't know how or why I put up with the fouling!!! I found 100 pcs 25acp brass for 15 bucks and primed them all. I will not have to worry about them again for some time. I'm shooting 2 reg 50gr pellets and a Traditions 300gr sabot bullet.

Accuracy was excellent and overall a much nicer shooting experience!!

CW

jcal73 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:37:45 AM »

Another update.

Man Mr. Epp is FAST! I ordered the 25ACP kit Friday the 9th and received it today the 12th! It all fits the gun good and looks to be very well made. I still do not have any primers.

But I guess I will just have to take an old cold tater and wait.

While I was bored I took some pics of the setup and stuff.

https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/gallery.php?u=jcal73&g=25ACP-Conversion

I have one more question on the pic labeled brass change is this normal?

Thanks,
Jeff

jcal73 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2009, 01:07:27 AM »

Another small update.

I travel for a living and a coworker/friend found me some Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primers at the Basspro shop in Sevierville TN! They were $4.99 for a 100 pack. A little high priced, but beggars can't be choosers! I hope that the 6 1/2's work.

Thanks again to everybody for helping me to overcome my ignorance!

Jeff

carbineman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2009, 05:35:03 AM »

Quote from: jcal73 on January 14, 2009, 01:07:27 AM

Another small update.

I travel for a living and a coworker/friend found me some Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primers at the Basspro shop in Sevierville TN! They were $4.99 for a 100 pack. A little high priced, but beggars can't be choosers! I hope that the 6 1/2's work.

Thanks again to everybody for helping me to overcome my ignorance!

Jeff

Never tried the 6 1/2's, but hope they work for you. Let us know.

carbineman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2009, 05:38:43 AM »

Quote from: jcal73 on January 12, 2009, 11:37:45 AM

Another update.

Man Mr. Epp is FAST! I ordered the 25ACP kit Friday the 9th and received it today the 12th! It all fits the gun good and looks to be very well made. I still do not have any primers. But I guess I will just have to take an old cold tater and wait.

While I was bored I took some pics of the setup and stuff.

https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/gallery.php?u=jcal73&g=25ACP-Conversion

I have one more question on the pic labeled brass change is this normal?

Thanks,
Jeff

Are you talking about the length being different? That looks a bit more than I encountered but yuup there is a difference at times. Being the brass have a "crush" fit when you close the action, this should not cause much if any problem for you.

bubba · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2009, 07:58:43 AM »

I have used small pistol primers with loose triple 7 and have not had a misfire. I use cci's and am bery cofident witt them. If you have a place you can find then get a hundred and try them. I started using them because I had about 600 sitting around from reloading for my handguns and had no small rifle. Anyway as far as I am concerned they work just as well.

jcal73 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2009, 10:33:23 AM »

Another small update.

I'm working today in NC and stopped by the Basspro in Charlotte and found some Winchester Small Rifle Primers the box says WSR on it. I bought 2 packs to give them a try as well. If the weather holds this weekend in my part of AL I might try all of the stuff out.

Thanks Again,
Jeff

MI.sabot · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2009, 07:44:34 AM »

I've had trouble finding CCI 400 small rifle primers in my area as well.

Settled for some Federal small rifle primers. Hope they work as well.
If anyone has had any problems using these, please share your experience with us.