What is best design for a breech loading cannon?

[ratpatrol]

  Looking for a breech loading design for late 1800's cannon that works and not to hard to machine. I have a 6inch OD,2 inch ID by 54inch tube, like to make a 3/4 scale field piece.

[KABAR2]

The best design is the one that doesn't blow up in you face, or lead you to the greybar hotel.

stick to designs like the Armstrong, or the Whitworth and you will stay out of trouble, late 1800 designs can cause you grief with ATFE

When in doubt contact the ATF they have a branch in W. Va. that can answer your questions on building an approved non Destructive Device cannon.

For the most part here on this board people talk about muzzle loading cannon because there a few legal issues with these, we are not lawyers so

giving further advice as to design really isn't in the purview of this forum.

[GGaskill]

It's a grey area and an ATF opinion is your best bet.  Theoretically, even a cartridge loading gun would be legal under the "not available in normal commerce" clause but unless you want to spend your time and money in court instead of on the range, a written statement that what you are doing is OK is best.

[cannonmn]

Theoretically, even a cartridge loading gun would be legal under the "not available in normal commerce" clause

I guess this is why the board doesn't like this kind of discussion, it is very hard to find accurate info.

Without discussing the poster's question, I will note that folks who applied to manufacture a working replica of an 1870's one-pounder cartridge -firing cannon were required to register it as a destructive device.  The particular one-pounder round the gun was designed to fire has not been manufactured in the US since WWI.  This ruling was only a few years ago, so one would have to suspect the same ruling would be rendered now.

[Double D]

  Yes ATF will have the answer on what you can build legally. My guess and a guess it is, is that where they will get you is the ammunition clause. 

For the purpose of discussion on the forum we established our rule that says:

Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

We took this rule from the GCA and NFA, but the only interpetation we offer is for discussion on our board.  And for purpose of interpetation on this board a breech loader that uses a projectile, a separate powder bag and separate method of priming is not using fixed ammo.

The problem for our forum with breech loaders is the fixed ammo.  There is no doubt that no one in the U.S. is currently manufacuring this old ammunition.  The problems comes as John mentions to being readily available in ordinary channels of commercial channels.

Some where, someone has an inventory of the most common of this ammo, for sale.

As part of your research to find which gun to build, you need to include a letter to ATF seeking a determinatiion as to the status of the particular gun you want to build.  You actually find ATF very helpful in you quest. 

Word of caution, when you contact ATF for a determination, do it in writing.  Don't get anything verbal from anyone. 

So Ratpatrol, do you have any idea what breech loader you might be interested in?  And if I can ask, why a breech loader?

I haven't realy looked at it with the idea of constructing it, but I wonder how hard a Williams Gun would be to build.

[cannonmn]

hard a Williams Gun would be to build.

It has been done.  One of the articles in the Artilleryman index I posted is about how one gent did it.  He used to set up his stuff at the Mansfield OH artillery show, and he brought his Williams gun once or twice.  I almost bought the same repro Williams gun, which had been basically constructed by a machinist in Northern PA.  I looked at it and was a good, basic Williams barrel and receiver, bolt, crank etc. but the finishing touches weren't great, and it was just a bit too crude for my liking.  The author of the article bought the same gun and being a highly skilled machinist, he finished it in fine style so it was something he not only shot, but could enjoy.

I suggest first step for any Williams gun builders is to get a copy of the article.

[cannonmn]

The problem for our forum with breech loaders is the fixed ammo.  There is no doubt that no one in the U.S. is currently manufacuring this old ammunition.  The problems comes as John mentions to being readily available in ordinary channels of commercial channels.

Doug I think you are on the right track.  There's this to consider also:  There has never to my knowledge been a problem with a particular physical item, meaning one original weapon, that was actually manufactured prior to 1899, no matter what it was designed to shoot, and the published rules of course support that. 

The issue comes with your wanting to reproduce such an item  now, which then cannot have been made before 1899.