Dented Brass During Decapping/Resizing-Help!!

[smoky]

I recently set up a new set of 7mm BR dies as follows:  Press handle completely down, screwed resizing/decapping die in until touching shell holder. Then screwed in about another 1/4 turn in order to get the proper cam over or "bump".   I set the decapper ball and pin just so it would push the primer out.  The bottom of the expander is about 3/8" inside the die, and the point of the pin sticks out about 1/8" to 1/4"

I then proceeded to lube a few cases and reform them.  The process seems to go as normal except that almost each one has one or two dents forming between the base of the shoulder and the base of the neck, right in the "angle" of the shoulder.  Thought this may be the result of too much lube, so ran one through with no lube and result-same thing.

1.  How do I fix this?

2. Can I go ahead and load the dented cases and just fire form the dent out, or will the shoulder collapse during seating?



Please help!




Smoky

[Ron T.]

Smoky...

From the way you describe it, those dents will “shoot out” when you fire the cartridges.  There is no danger in reloading them normally... as if the cases were NOT dented.

Now, as to the continued denting, you apparently had WAY too much lub on those cases… you want to get just a VERY, VERY light coating of lubrication on them... and mostly on the neck/shoulder area of the case.  You should have hardly ANY lub on the body of the case... just enough to allow it to slide easily through the resizing process.

The FACT that you were ABLE to run a “dry”, UN-LUBRICATED cartridge case through your die without it STICKING in the resizing die is PROOF there was still MORE than enough residue lub inside the die to lubricate the “dry” case.  Stop over-lubricating your cases, and the dents should stop.

Lub as little as possible… but mostly in the neck/shoulder area of the case… and “feel” the case into the resizing die.  If it begins to require TOO MUCH PRESSURE on the reloading machine’s handle, THEN withdraw the case from the resizing die and do a little more lubricating.  Also very lightly lubricate the inside of the case’s mouth to help ease the expander ball through the case’s mouth.  Then wipe out the lubrication afterwards or the granules of powder will stick to the lubrication on the inside of the case's mouth when you begin charging the cartridge cases with rifle powder.

Lub your cases VERY LIGHTLY and, if in doubt, smear the lub in the neck/shoulder area of the case around with your finger/thumb in a twisting motion just before you put the case into the shell holder to resize it.  Once you see how little lubrication it takes, you can eliminate this smearing of the lub if you wish.

I hope this solves your problem... and I believe it will.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Mikey]

smoky:  use less lube.  Please don't forget that there is 'no room' between the walls of your sizing die and your fired case.  Any time you introduce material to the sizing process it has to go somewhere and the most famous place for it to go is into a dent it creates by itself.  

I can't tell you how many different calibers and cases I've done this to and Ron T is correct in that the dents will shoot out but lighten up on the lube a bit and you should not see any more dents.  Hope this helps.  Mikey.

[Double D]

Sorry fellas but the way those dies are set up are a receipe for failure.   I can tell from the description that you are using RCBS dies as the method described comes straight from their literature.

Here is a link from the Redding and they tell how to avoid those dents. Just click on it and you will be taken there.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/techlinepages/casedenting.htm

The basic rule is don't get any lube on the shoulder. I have used Le Clear sizing die lube for 30 years.  I wipe my fingers across the lube, then roll the case between my two fingers when I pick it up, dip the neck in dry neck lube and put it on the shell holder.  

The method describe by Redding using the heaspace guages is good.

Before the advent of the headspace guages Redding said to simply screw the die in untill the die touched the full raised shell holder, then back the die out half a turn.  Insert a lubed case and run it in the die. Try the case in your chamber. See if the bolt will close without resistance. Screw the die in a 1/8 of a turn and try again.   When the bolt will just close without resistance, lock your dies. adjust the decapping pin to punch the primer out.

You do not want to over size and set your shoulder back when you full length resize it will cause case failure.   You do not want lube  dents on the shoulder because that will work harden the brass and cause failure.

You can fire out those dents. But be careful and keep the lube off the shoulder.

[smoky]

Thanks for the info, although the dies in question are brand new Redding dies, series B.  I set these dies up based on information obtained on this forum in relation to another question I specifically posted in regards to "tight chambering rounds" and needing that "cam over" or "bump" action to properly set the shoulder in an ackley improved case.

I will however, check out the redding site.

Thanks,

Smoky

[smoky]

I forgot to mention that these cases are being loaded for an encore pistol.  Will the "chamber, check, set" method work in a break open action?

Thanks,

Smoky

[KN]

If you mean checking the OAL by chambering a loaded round to see if it fits alright, yes I do that on several Encore loads I use. On your case lube problem I would be very leary of running an un-lubed case into a die. You would be amazed how fast and how tight a case will get stuck in a die doing that. Your lucky there was lube up in the die or you would probably have ended up cursing a lot.  KN

[Double D]

Break open single shot's need to be set up just a little different.

First take your new unfired brass and file a small notch in the rim of each case.  Then on the back of the barrel over the chamber at 12 o'clock lightly and I mean lightly file or punch a mark right at the edge of the chamber. This is only an indicator or alignment mark, so do get carried away.  You could also use a scribe and a straight edge.  Now when ever you load a cartridge into this chamber make sure the notch aligns with the mark.  

If you do this, this is one of two things that will increase brass life in the break action singleshots, or any single shot for that matter.

The second thing is proper adjustment of the sizing die.

Screw the die down against the shell holder in the raised ram.  Back the die out 1/2 turn. Run a lightly lubed fired case in the sizer die.  Put the sized case in your pistol, aligning the notch. Try and close the action. it should not close.  Now try and close the action by giving the barrel a brisk snap closed with your hands on the barrel and grip.  Adjust the die in 1/8 turn and try to close the action again with a birsk snap.  Keep going in 1/8 turn until the action will close with a brisk snap.  At that point lock your die ring and adjust your decapping pin. (Note: some people even go so far as to align the brass, using the notch as it goes on the sizing die, can't hurt, I never have)

This will give you a tight chamber fit, your gun will be more accurate and your brass will last longer.  

The instructions above and the ones I wrote earlier use to appear in the Instructions that came with Redding Dies.

Now you got that done go kill something! Deer!, Paper, Steel, just shoot!

[longwinters]

Now I am a little confused.  I shoot an Encore 7M-08 24".  All I do is neck size my brass and the rifle shoots fantastic (although it does string upwards for the 1st 3-4 shots or so.  Thompson is looking at my barrel now).  My brass has held up well and it consistently shoots moa after that 3rd or 4th shot.  Why do a total resize?

long

[Double D]

Longwinters,

Let me guess, you are doing a partial neck size by backing the sizing die out so that it only sizes a short portion of the neck?  Am I right?

And even if you are using a neck sizing die you still are doing (not doing) what I am describing in my previous posts.  You are only sizing your brass where it's needed,

The whole purpose of the drill is to not full length size and push the shoulder back. By partial neck sizing that's what you avoid.  Your doing Good!

But unfortunately in some of the single shots you can not chamber a round untill some degree of full length resizing has been done on the fired case.  The method I described lets you adjust you die to fit you specific chamber and minimizes the working of the brass in the case.  

If you can get rounds to chamber by partial neck sizing only, then by all means do it.  But even then I suggest you still index.  As rigid as that Encore is you problably won't see any action flexing, but I guarentee you will see it in the Contender.  7TCU being among the notorious!  Indexing is one way to slow the effects of flexing.

I will also mention that I have seen some Single shots that would not rechamber a neck sized only reloaded case.  When cases were indexed the problem went away. Especially true in springy actions like Remington Rolling Block and the Contender with high intensity rounds.

[Duffy]

I had the same problem with my 708 dies. After reading the Redding page I found a small amount of die oil that had hardedned up in the die from manif. that I didn't get cleaned out. It wasn't much but with a little added lube it was enough. I use Imperial sizing wax and put NONE on the shoulder, a very miniscule amount on the neck and a light coat on the body. You have to clean them out occationaly because of the build up of lube in them also. Trying to set the shoulder back too far will dent too!  I can get away with neck only sizing for about 3 loads and then I just set it back enough to chamber easily. If I set mine too tight accuracy goes sour with the factory bbl.