Author Topic: What's your next best alternative to a Semi- Auto? (Read 5839 times)

mirage1988 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 15, 2009, 09:28:07 AM »

Just looked up the 7615, hadn't heard of it before. That is a neat gun,especially since minnesota allows 223 to be used for deer now. I don't know about a rifle for home defense tho, I wouldn't want the bullets going thru the walls. I keep a 20 gauge next to the bed, a load of 6's at ten feet is something I don't want to be at the recieving end of!

Swampman · « **Reply #31 on:** March 15, 2009, 09:30:41 AM »

I would take a lever action .30-30 over any semi-auto. I actually prefer a single shot.

S.S. · « **Reply #32 on:** March 15, 2009, 11:01:07 AM »

Levergun in .357 Mag.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2009, 02:56:01 PM »

I picked up one of the REM 7615 police pumps today, Took it home cleaned it and shot a 10 round mag thru it, Off hand at about 50 yards. I put all 10 into the end of a 6" log. I wasn't really trying just wanted to shoot it, No practice, no load work, no sight adjustments, first 10 rounds out of new rifle, 10 rounds inside of 6" offhand, I think I like it. Its loud and spits a fireball thou, It is now loaded and sitting by my bed.

teddy12b · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:13:08 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on March 19, 2009, 02:56:01 PM

I picked up one of the REM 7615 police pumps today, Took it home cleaned it and shot a 10 round mag thru it, Off hand at about 50 yards. I put all 10 into the end of a 6" log. I wasn't really trying just wanted to shoot it, No practice, no load work, no sight adjustments, first 10 rounds out of new rifle, 10 rounds inside of 6" offhand, I think I like it. Its loud and spits a fireball thou, It is now loaded and sitting by my bed.

If/when you ever really make an attempt to see what kind of accuracy the gun is capable of I'd be interested in reading about it.

mannyrock · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:53:00 AM »

Well, in looking through the thread, it would appear that the three main choices boil down to these rifles:

1. Lever Action .30-30.

2. Lever Action .357 (or possibly .44 mag)

3. Remington 7615 pump in .223.

None of these are bad choices. Which is the best would really depend on the person's personal skills, and the terrain in which he lives. All have 200 yard defensive capability. All are in extremely popular ammo.

I have short arms, and a history of short-stroking a pump shotgun when dove shooting. So, choice no. 3 would be a bad one for me, but may be the best for others.

Regards,

Mannyrock

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:12:42 AM »

Rossi used to make a pump in a 357 and a 44 which may be faster and easier in prone than a lever. It had the funky safety on top of the receiver though.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:53:06 AM »

If/when you ever really make an attempt to see what kind of accuracy the gun is capable of I'd be interested in reading about it.
[/quote]

I will do that and try many diffrent bullets just as soon as I get my reloading room completed and the weather dries out some. I have a good selection of .223 bullets to try but can't even get to them right now.

bilmac · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:57:02 AM »

Yes and I think Israeli Arms or some such manufacturer made a 357 in a miniturized version of the Rem 870. If I remember it was called a Wolf or Timber Wolf or something like that. I imagine it was aimed at cops. I bought one because we had some ladies in our unit that had a problem with the 12 ga, and so never carried a long gun at all. It had some kind of tactical problem so I wasn't overly impressed. I think that maybe the action had to be open before you could top off the magazine. I know the 870 doesn't work that way but this gun had this or some similar problem.

mannyrock · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2009, 04:16:05 AM »

Bilmac,

The Timberwolf was a total commercial failure, and Israeli Arms stopped making it after just 2 or 3 years. One main complaint was that the loading port underneath, where you shoved the rounds in with your thumb straight into the magazine tube, was just too small for a man's thumb, and consequently you had to shove hard and get your thumb pinched. Men with large hands actually had trouble getting the rounds in at all. The sights were pretty bad as well, and couldn't really be improved. Also, at the time it was being sold, the Mini-14 craze was in full swing, and nobody saw a practical need for a pump action .357.

Most gun writers basically said, "Yea, the gun works, . . . but who needs one?"

It was an interesting concept, but was either way ahead or way behind the times.

Regards,

Mannyrock

teddy12b · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2009, 04:46:21 AM »

Timing is everything. I bet that gun would sell today especially since states are allowing pistol cartridge rifles for hunting. It might have given them a better chance.

bilmac · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:28:27 AM »

I'm pretty sure it targeted the police market when everybody was carrying 357s and 870s. Nobody does that anymore.

targshooter · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2009, 03:33:35 AM »

I almost bought a Timberwolf at a store closeout in a large CT gunshop in the mid 1980s. They were selling for under $200. Nobody was taking them. The forestock was very wobbly, the sights were dismal, and, as Mannyrock pointed out, the loading port was atrocious. I could have lived with the first two, but for me, it was that loading port that left the rifle on the table after several attempts to convince myself I needed it.

blackpowderbill · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:26:43 AM »

While I have a very fine FAL, it it heavy and clumsy in my opinion. My go to guns are my cut down High Standard pump 12 gauge with rifle sights and my Kar98k. The HS is deadly with Brennake slugs out to about 125 yards and holds 5 in the tube. That is my house gun; I live in the country. For a serious threat, something that may call for the "Unorganized Malitia of the US", my Kar98k is my ticket. I have a carefully laid up supply of Romy 154gr ball that shoots very well out of her. She is accurate (3MOA) absolutey reliable, slick as greased ball bearings and has handling properties better than allot of comercial sporting rifles. Also I can and have fired 20 aimed shots into a 18 inch circle at 100 yards in 60 seconds. While not an auto, it can place heavy fire on a target if needed.

sixgun_symphony · « **Reply #44 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:24:11 PM »

My advise is that you join the Single Action Shooting Society and cowboy up!

http://sassnet.com/

A lever carbine and two SA revolvers (chambered in .44-40) and a 10ga double "coachgun" will still get the job done.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #45 on:** April 26, 2009, 05:04:09 AM »

I think a lever rifle is a very interesting concept. I have participated in lever rifle competitions and it is amazing the amount of rounds that can be put "on target" in short order in a timed event out to 300 yards. Another consideration is the amount of ammo that can be created in mass quantity for dirt cheap if you cast your own. I made so many 44 bullets yesterday for almost nothing. A lever rifle in 44 magnum is my recommendation. Also, as mentioned before is the never ending tactical reload.

Cheese

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #46 on:** April 26, 2009, 06:30:49 AM »

Back to the original question on self defense, it is hard to beat a Rem 870.. again assuming self defense means close quarters

Pvt.Joker · « **Reply #47 on:** May 10, 2009, 09:00:11 PM »

This may seem an odd question, but who makes (if anybody) a 45/70 semi-auto, and what would it be? (Aside from a real hoot; that is!)

45-70.gov · « **Reply #48 on:** May 13, 2009, 04:49:27 AM »

.450 bushmaster is close

cjclemens · « **Reply #49 on:** May 13, 2009, 07:35:50 AM »

Since this thread is back, Ill have to put in my vote for a lever gun. The old 44-40's hold a lot of shells and would make for a good short to mid range carbine. If you wanted more power, you could get one in .44 mag. Personally, I would go with a .30-30 marlin for range and accuracy.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #50 on:** May 13, 2009, 09:23:02 AM »

Guess it would depend on where you live . How long would your shots be etc. There are several ways to look at the simi-auto , the first and the attention getter is the spray and pray crowd ( i feel sure none of thoses are on this site ) . They you have the power hungry group that wants to have the most powerful weapon they can afford ( again none here ,RIGHT ? )and then we have what i feel most of us emulate , the guy who takes the well aimed shot every time . The guy who looks at simi auto as only a loading help and not as a spray and pray format . All kidding aside in a situation where you were on your own or ammo was hard to get any action that was reliable would work . First you would be careful not to waste ammo , you would be careful to not get caught in a situation that would cause you to expend ammo . You would know the limitations of your weapon and use such to your advantage , If you have a bolt action then if you were forced into a fight you could start off while the attackers were still at distance . I would think a handi bolt action of modest power would work well in most places . A good 308 with a BBL of say 18-22 inches . It would allow follow up shots and would reach out and touch a problem that could not be avoided .
The other actions are more prone to breakage than a bolt gun in most cases . Easier to clean and maintain .

squirrellluck · « **Reply #51 on:** May 13, 2009, 02:40:33 PM »

I dont own but 1 semi auto and its a marlin model 60. So I dont have a next best to semi auto. I have the utmost respect for the lever action however so it gets my vote. I just never cared for semi auto, rifle or handgun.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #52 on:** May 13, 2009, 02:54:03 PM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on March 15, 2009, 09:28:07 AM

Just looked up the 7615, hadn't heard of it before. That is a neat gun,especially since minnesota allows 223 to be used for deer now. I don't know about a rifle for home defense tho, I wouldn't want the bullets going thru the walls. I keep a 20 gauge next to the bed, a load of 6's at ten feet is something I don't want to be at the recieving end of!

they say [who ever they are]
that the light varment bullets are best for home defence
and will blow up on sheet rock and not over penetrate

RaySendero · « **Reply #53 on:** May 13, 2009, 03:14:08 PM »

After reading all this, I'm still convinced that a Rem M870 12 guage is the best HP medicine. However, y'all have also convined me to try out a lever 357 mag!

Pvt.Joker · « **Reply #54 on:** May 13, 2009, 05:18:26 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on May 13, 2009, 09:23:02 AM

Guess it would depend on where you live . How long would your shots be etc. There are several ways to look at the simi-auto , the first and the attention getter is the spray and pray crowd ( i feel sure none of thoses are on this site ) . They you have the power hungry group that wants to have the most powerful weapon they can afford ( again none here ,RIGHT ? )and then we have what i feel most of us emulate , the guy who takes the well aimed shot every time . The guy who looks at simi auto as only a loading help and not as a spray and pray format . All kidding aside in a situation where you were on your own or ammo was hard to get any action that was reliable would work . First you would be careful not to waste ammo , you would be careful to not get caught in a situation that would cause you to expend ammo . You would know the limitations of your weapon and use such to your advantage , If you have a bolt action then if you were forced into a fight you could start off while the attackers were still at distance . I would think a handi bolt action of modest power would work well in most places . A good 308 with a BBL of say 18-22 inches . It would allow follow up shots and would reach out and touch a problem that could not be avoided .
The other actions are more prone to breakage than a bolt gun in most cases . Easier to clean and maintain .

Shootall, I suppose my own approach is that it is ALWAYS better to carry too much ammo to any fight, and to be able to follow up with another shot quicker, than to not and risk finding myself wishing I had. And yes, if you KNOW you are going to have to have a gunfight with an attacker (or multiple attackers) then it certainly is better to start the fight from beyond the range of their weapons. But that is not always the case, as we all know. Neither is it always the case that the ONLY gunfight you wind up in is one-on-one, with two shots and seven yards apart. Perhaps the statistically most likely scenario, but if that's the ONLY one you are prepared for, it tempts Fate.

Guess I'd rather be over-prepared than wind up room temperature, if I have any choice in the matter. Granted, you can't always anticipate EVERY attack or threat. What's the old movie line? "Nuke'em from orbit; it's the only way to be sure." But since that's not realistic, then it becomes a matter of how much gun (and how many) can you use and carry in context of the laws and situation. But that's just my opinion; yours of course may vary.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #55 on:** May 16, 2009, 06:07:08 PM »

hard to claim self defence at rifle distence

but if they have a rifle and you dont....your dead and the point is mute

best alternative is what motivates you to get out and practice
and not hesitate if it ever comes to that

Pvt.Joker · « **Reply #56 on:** May 17, 2009, 05:44:43 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on May 16, 2009, 06:07:08 PM

best alternative is what motivates you to get out and practice
and not hesitate if it ever comes to that

Can't argue with that. In the end, if the weapon puts effective rounds in the target repeatably, and you have it (and ammo) and are capable with it, that counts for FAR more than the matter of which type, make or model. As they say, in 10 years no one will remember the make, caliber, or ammo used- only who won and who lost.

sixgun_symphony · « **Reply #57 on:** July 11, 2009, 04:51:44 AM »

Quote from: LEO on February 25, 2009, 05:04:52 PM

The 30-30 lever action has a lot going for it. Plenty accurate for the task at hand, light weight, fast handling, low recoil, low muzzle flash/blast, lower noise signature than a lot of centerfire rifle rounds, fast follow up shots, good stopping power, can be topped off with the rifle still in battery, and fully ambedextrious. Ammo is very available and the rifles are fairly durable, easily maintained, and inexpensive and as has been pointed out by other posters the rifles are veiwed in a more favorable light than the AR/AK type rifles.

Ditto

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** July 11, 2009, 05:23:31 AM »

If simi's were out then i guess full auto would carry the day !

JUST KIDDING !

dougk · « **Reply #59 on:** September 15, 2009, 02:10:20 PM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on March 15, 2009, 07:17:33 AM

I love my lever guns, The .30-30 and .357s will handle anything in the lower 48 just fine.

Lever action .357 tough to beat.

Doug