Author Topic: 2 1/8 Lapan's Foundry Cannon (Read 4057 times)

plastikosmd · « **on:** January 10, 2009, 08:00:05 AM »

Well, I am the new owner of a Lapan's Foundry 2 1/8 bore cannon. It has a 0.25 Seamless steel sleeve liner. Previous owner use to lob juice cans of concrete at random targets. Sounded like fun. Bore looks pretty good. Maker was Lapan's Foundry is in Glens Falls, NY. Cannon marks have an (LP) on one trunion and (no. 98) on the other. I left a msg with them regarding any history of the cannon. Wood is ok, no rot..but probably will update it. Wheels are alum. including the spokes etc. Weight, no idea, took me and another guy to lift into a pickup and a third to balance the tail. Prob under 200lbs or so all told. Previous owner used FFFg, and gave me some loads that were already bagged (and 3lbs in cans.) I well weigh them just for interest but probably go more coarse and use the triple F in a pistol or somethin. They look a lot heavier than the 1 0z or so that I planned to use. Pics included, I cleaned up the nose a bit to see the liner, will repaint along with rest of cannon. I am brand new to this "sport."

Artilleryman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:20:32 AM »

Nice gun. Good idea to go to a coarser powder. Does it have vent liner?

plastikosmd · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:23:43 AM »

not sure, guessing no...will clean up the paint in that area and check. Previous owner would just dump some FFFg on top and light...I will use cord and run like h#ll for the time being

dan610324 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:37:49 AM »

this is not a sport , its a lifestile

when you are hooked you just cant quit

or dont want to quit

its a really nice cannon .

KABAR2 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:39:57 AM »

Lapan is a good gun but I don't believe they bushed the touch hole this is something you will want to have done.
unfortunalty they stopped making cannon after someone who was injured sued everyone envolved including the
manufacture. I had the same tube mounted on a truck carriage wish I still had it.
Did you get any implements with it? rammer? sponge? worm?

plastikosmd · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2009, 09:38:19 AM »

well nice to hear someone has heard of the cannon. when you say 'brush' the touch hole..is that the same as a liner for the hole? this seems to be a straight drill job right on through.

cannonmn · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2009, 10:13:28 AM »

Quote

when you say 'brush' the touch hole

I'm sure he means "bushed" as in "bushing" meaning a thick tube, usually threaded, forming the cannon's vent. That tube is a separate piece so it can connect firmly to the liner, go thru the cannon wall, and its top will sit there to be friction-primed, powder-primed, quickmatched, fused, whatever.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:09:44 AM »

Quote from: cannonmn on January 10, 2009, 10:13:28 AM

Quote
when you say 'brush' the touch hole

I'm sure he means "bushed" as in "bushing" meaning a thick tube, usually threaded, forming the cannon's vent. That tube is a separate piece so it can connect firmly to the liner, go thru the cannon wall, and its top will sit there to be friction-primed, powder-primed, quickmatched, fused, whatever.

Exactly

Artilleryman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:11:51 AM »

The vent piece helps to hold the liner in place (more important if the liner is rifled), provides a smooth continous passageway (no ember holding gaps between liner and barrel), and can be replaced if it becomes worn (not likely on small guns).

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:13:09 AM »

How about some pictures from ground level so we cans see what the gun looks like.

Looks like you have a nice restoraration project ahead of you.

BoomLover · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:22:09 AM »

Wonder what the injury was? And what the cause was? Manufacture error, equiptment falure? Or, operator error? Too bad someone was injured, but, also too bad a manufacture had to go out of business! That's why safety first is the name of the game! Let's hope they recovered? Nice looking cannon! BoomLover

RocklockI · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:42:15 AM »

Wow That is a darn nice cannon .

RocklockI · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2009, 11:51:39 AM »

Juice can (V8) is for 2.25" inches in my South Bend cohorn YMMV!

.

If it was 2.25" pool balls will make great projectiles . I used to shoot V8 can full of cement ,but poolballs are it !
rocklockI

Max Caliber · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2009, 01:17:07 PM »

Plastikosmd, One of my old Lapan catalogs shows that your gun is a copy of a full scale French or English piece that was found in Lake George, N.Y. Lapan called it their pattern number 6A. They made both the barrel and carriage. All of their barrels that I have seen were excellent castings that were cast around a liner and had a pretty nice finish even though they were not lathe turned on the outside. They made both iron and bronze mortars and cannons, full scale and smaller scale pieces.

Max

thelionspaw · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2009, 01:59:07 PM »

I believe I read about the "accident" within the first 3 years of The Artilleryman publication. I used to get it back then. Only last year, did I dump the first 3-4 years copies and the original catalogue of Lapan Foundry in the trash at the transfer station. I took them to a number of gun shows for a buck each and there was zero interest.

rc

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2009, 02:58:45 PM »

Richard,

You too? I remembered that accident. I also remembered that I still had the article. Page 6 of Vol 6, no 4 of the Artilleryman has the story.

plastikosmd · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:59:11 PM »

well it is 2 1/8 not 1/4 so, tomato paste cans seem to be about the right size..will have to measure at the supermarket. Looking at the cannon I am not too concerned about the sleeve moving or really wear all that much. Hole is a bit over 1/8 and I cleaned it up with a ream and took a look down...seems pretty good. I may just use it as is with some cord. I plan to keep the loads quite low...figure from my reading 1 oz. should be ok. Dont need to lob a can over a mountain or stop a charge of infantry! Will shoot some more pics. I want to go do a test fire or 2 before takin it all apart to restore it. Wife is mildly irritated and may force a sale before I get it restored!

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2009, 07:26:53 PM »

I met Ed La Pan in 1973 when I visited his Foundry on Vaughn Road in Hudson Falls, New York just east of Glens Falls when I was looking for some cannonballs for my South Bend Replicas 1/2 scale 8 Inch 1797 Mortar. He showed me around and I saw a few tubes in process and one complete, ready for delivery. It looked very nice. He told me no problem on 4" Dia. cannonballs and completed them a week later. He was busy, but talked a lot about quality and told me about the importance of liner centering. The cannonballs he sold me were at least twice as good as the 40 I later ordered from Slack-Horner Foundry in Longmont, CO. In fact I was so impressed with his attention to detail, that I went to great lengths not to lose those first five. However, I over-shot a cow pasture and lost one in a bog near Kingston, NY and another was lost in a dense thicket behind the 300 yard butts at a range near Clarksville, NY. I DO NOT shoot the 3 which remain and are pictured below.

Regards,

Tracy

The front cover of the LA PAN'S FOUNDRY brochure I received from Ed La Pan in 1973. Yes, my cannonballs have a little rust, but it's almost a miracle that I still have them at all. They are indoors now and undergoing a once a decade cleaning and repainting.

Plastickosmd, I agree with Max Caliber and believe the cannon you have is pictured here on page 7 of La Pan's brochure. The photo caption is: PATT. No. 6A ON FIELD CARRIAGE WITH 22" ALUMINUM WHEELS. The hardware looks like it's an exact match too. It's a very good looking cannon.

plastikosmd · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2009, 07:58:46 PM »

could i pay you for a copy of that book? let me know how much..This is my first cannon..but it does seem well made. With care it should last me a long while and yes..that is the cannon you have pictured, does it list the weight?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2009, 08:41:15 PM »

The La Pan Foundry brochure doesn't list weights or prices for any of the cannons shown. However, we will be happy to copy it and send it to you NC. PM us with your shipping address and we will send it out. Call us first if you ever decide to sell this cannon.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

KABAR2 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2009, 01:39:02 AM »

Quote from: BoomLover on January 10, 2009, 11:22:09 AM

Wonder what the injury was? And what the cause was? Manufacture error, equiptment falure? Or, operator error? Too bad someone was injured, but, also too bad a manufacture had to go out of business! That's why safety first is the name of the game! Let's hope they recovered? Nice looking cannon! BoomLover

There was a gentleman in an artillery unit that lost his arm up to the elbow while loading the gun with a straight rammer, he sued the Brigade of the American Revolution, the artillery unit, Lapan, and anyone else
he could think of, while it is tragic that he lost his arm no one held a gun to his head and forced him to load that cannon, seeing the way the jury trial was going he settled for I believe 30 or 35 thousand dollars.
and Lapan stopped making cannon due to the cost of litigation and the possibility of future SUE SUE SUE types.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:44:21 AM »

Quote from: plastikosmd on January 10, 2009, 06:59:11 PM

Hole is a bit over 1/8 and I cleaned it up with a ream and took a look down...seems pretty good. I may just use it as is with some cord.

Since this is a cast around liner you a have seam between liner and casting. When fired black powder reside is blasted under pressure up the fuse hole. The residue can collect in the micro pores in the joint between liner and casting. When the bore is swabbed the steam also goes up the the vent and helps force this reside into that seeam. The residue is forced into the micropores is virtullly impossible to clean out. To minimize the effect the best thing to do is instal a vent liner help preserved for very valuable cannon.

Quote

Wife is mildly irritated and may force a sale before I get it restored!

About the wife, well I have been married for 42 years all to the same women. With these many years of experience I can tell you there is nothing to you can do. You can minimimize the effect with time and distance, but you will find it easier to vent your cannon than minimize the wife effect totally.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:54:55 AM »

Just remember to buy some fg or better yet cannon grade powder 3Fg is too fine for a bore this big.it is fine for priming or use your 3fg for black powder longarms etc.

Terry C. · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:16:10 AM »

Quote from: plastikosmd on January 10, 2009, 06:59:11 PM

Wife is mildly irritated and may force a sale before I get it restored!

Let her shoot it.

Better yet, let her shoot it first (while you 'observe').

Just be careful, it may become HER cannon...

Oh, and ditto on the FFFg. Not really good for this big gun.

Fg would probably be okay for salutes (if you already had it on-hand), but for any type of projectile I would use nothing less than cannon grade. Best to just buy cannon and use it for both.

dominick · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:36:43 AM »

Quote from: plastikosmd on January 10, 2009, 06:59:11 PM

well it is 2 1/8 not 1/4 so, tomato paste cans seem to be about the right size..will have to measure at the supermarket. Looking at the cannon I am not too concerned about the sleeve moving or really wear all that much. Hole is a bit over 1/8 and I cleaned it up with a ream and took a look down...seems pretty good. I may just use it as is with some cord. I plan to keep the loads quite low...figure from my reading 1 oz. should be ok. Dont need to lob a can over a mountain or stop a charge of infantry! Will shoot some more pics. I want to go do a test fire or 2 before takin it all apart to restore it. Wife is mildly irritated and may force a sale before I get it restored!

plastikosmd, Very Nice Cannon! FYI, a tomato paste can will not fit in a 2-1/8" bore. Redbull soda can will. There was a guy from New York a few years back who built and sold 2" bore cannons and fired cut down paint rollers filled with concrete from it. Dom

thelionspaw · « **Reply #25 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:53:45 AM »

Hannaford tomato paste cans are exactly 2 1/8". Maybe other brands vary? If you touch the rims with a wheel, you can gain enough space?

rc

dominick · « **Reply #26 on:** January 11, 2009, 04:57:44 AM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on January 11, 2009, 04:53:45 AM

Hannaford tomato paste cans are exactly 2 1/8". Maybe other brands vary? If you touch the rims with a wheel, you can gain enough space?

rc

Richard, You're right, it is the lip of the can that interferes. I will measure my can collection tomorrow. Dom

plastikosmd · « **Reply #27 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:17:12 AM »

i have enough clearance for a tomato paste can..which leads me to another question...the can fits easily..prob 1/32 all the way around. ( guess the bore is slightly larger than 2 1/8 but not by much.)My only black powder experience is with a pistol in which you jam that bullet it. My goal is to have fun but not build a ton of pressure...should i just use some wadding behind the can or seat it harder with say a muffin cup wrap or 2?

dan610324 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:31:35 AM »

if you have 1/32 all around it I would say its close to perfect
shoot them as they are , dont wrap them .

Terry C. · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2009, 06:02:18 AM »

Don't patch the projectile.

Smoothbore muzzle-loading cannon need windage. In this case "windage" refers to the clearance between bore and projectile and not the more modern definition of lateral sight adjustments.

Bores foul, projectiles can be imperfect or inconsistent. A little windage is necessary to avoid a high-pressure incident.

That said, I know of a couple of extreme cases where patching has been used. But in these cases it was very loosely patched, mainly to allow use of a grossly undersized projectile. It was not a tight seal, and in both cases these were mortars which are very low-pressure in comparison to a cannon.

Something you should do is have the bore diameter measured. A little knowledge of the gun's properties can go a long way in the future.

A ball gauge should also be built. This is a tube bored out to the diameter of the bore. The length of the gauge should be three times its diameter. All projectiles should be checked before loading. Oblong projectiles like cans should slide through easily, balls will roll in the bore so they should be made to roll through the gauge (out-of-round balls can sometimes be slid through, but won't roll through without jamming).

Any projectile that fails the gauge should be discarded. Better to find out now than when a can with a bent rim jams halfway down a loaded barrel.