Author Topic: Neocon Columnist Calls For Military Draft, Cites Possible Invasion Of Pakistan (Read 6018 times)

powderman · « **Reply #60 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:58:59 AM »

ALSAGR. You are 110% right. I can just imagine todays weenies giving up anything. During WW11 my Mom said even underwear didn't have elastic, just buttons. A small price to pay for freedom. BTW, the color of margarine was white, a yellow liquid was added to resemble butter.
fazak. Anybody living in any country should not complain about serving their country either voluntarily or by draft. There are many ways to serve, all don't have to fight. Freedom is worth fighting for. By your analogy if you are a landlord your would be renters wouldn't have to pay you one thin dime. They should be allowed to live there free, at least for them. POWDERMAN.

magooch · « **Reply #61 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:13:54 AM »

Yeah, I think it would be a wonderful idea to have a military made up of two year amateurs in place of our seasoned professionals. What military leader wouldn't jump at the chance to have a bunch of short timers and malcontents in the ranks.

No, I think what we need is a CIC that isn't afraid to use the power our military has. If you're going to go to war, go to war and quit fooling around. Nuke em.

alsaqr · « **Reply #62 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:58:41 AM »

Quote

Yeah, I think it would be a wonderful idea to have a military made up of two year amateurs in place of our seasoned professionals. What military leader wouldn't jump at the chance to have a bunch of short timers and malcontents in the ranks.

Draftees won WWI and WWII: That's a fact. I spent a career in the US Army. For most of that time we had the draft. The vast majority of draftees were good soldiers. Today the US military is much too small thanks to Bush I and Clinton. There are two ways to boost military strength; drastically raise pay or go to the draft.

The military is being forced to accept convicted felons in order to fill out the ranks. The Army is taking guys and girls who are obese with the hope that they will lose weight in training. Face it, young American men do not believe that the US is worth fighting for. There is no sense of patriotism.

Cement Man · « **Reply #63 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »

Quote from: alsaqr on January 18, 2009, 08:58:41 AM

Draftees won WWI and WWII: That's a fact. I spent a career in the US Army. For most of that time we had the draft. The vast majority of draftees were good soldiers. Today the US military is much too small thanks to Bush I and Clinton. There are two ways to boost military strength; drastically raise pay or go to the draft.

The military is being forced to accept convicted felons in order to fill out the ranks. The Army is taking guys and girls who are obese with the hope that they will lose weight in training. Face it, young American men do not believe that the US is worth fighting for. There is no sense of patriotism.

Alsaqr, thanks for your service. Your reference to the pay made me recall - somewhere around $58/mo to begin with? Got a raise to about $68 shortly thereafter? Even at $1.50 a carton for smokes and 4 qts of beer for $1, that didn't go far.

We do have some of the finest young people on the earth in our military, but there aren't enough.

alsaqr · « **Reply #64 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:07:22 AM »

Quote

We do have some of the finest young people on the earth in our military, but there aren't enough.

Thanks for your service.

They really are outstanding troops. The US Army should be twice the size that it is. There are not enough troops and they are being worn out by constant overseas tours. The war in Afghanistan is being lost because the US does not have enough troops to go around.

Had been retired from the US Army for 11 years and was the senior firing range advisor to the Saudi National Guard when Kuwait was invaded. Worked closely with US troops who used Saudi firing ranges. Those troops made up the best trained and best equipped army that ever was. Is it a crime that the politicians gutted the fine US Army.

My base pay was $79.00 when i joined the Army in 1979. Went to EOD school out of basic training and that added $55.00 a month to my meager pay.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #65 on:** January 18, 2009, 11:32:57 AM »

I'm sure the limp wristed liberals do fear joining the military, the training is hard and demanding. alsaqr is correct when he says the draftees won the war for America in WW1 and WW2. The military is made up of ranks, enlisted personnel, non com officers and officers.

Being the liberals blabbering here haven't served an are ignorant of the military, I will explain. Most of your soldiers are not lifers, most join for one enlistment 2 to 6 years. So you see Non Coms and officers are used to having short timers, in fact my liberal friend, most soldiers are short timers.

Now when you insult the largest portion of the military, as you call them "short timers and malcontents". You have insulted the majority of the United States Military. But then again when we think about it the liberals have always hated our soldiers, I guess that was just kind of a round about way for you to say it.

Fazak · « **Reply #66 on:** January 18, 2009, 12:46:04 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on January 18, 2009, 11:32:57 AM

I'm sure the limp wristed liberals do fear joining the military, the training is hard and demanding. alsaqr is correct when he says the draftees won the war for America in WW1 and WW2. The military is made up of ranks, enlisted personnel, non com officers and officers.

Being the liberals blabbering here haven't served an are ignorant of the military, I will explain. Most of your soldiers are not lifers, most join for one enlistment 2 to 6 years. So you see Non Coms and officers are used to having short timers, in fact my liberal friend, most soldiers are short timers.

Now when you insult the largest portion of the military, as you call them "short timers and malcontents". You have insulted the majority of the United States Military. But then again when we think about it the liberals have always hated our soldiers, I guess that was just kind of a round about way for you to say it.

Well,...actually, if you look back through our recent history you'll see that it's generally been the big government Democrats who want to give the government the power to enslave the people through conscription.

Congress, under Democrat Woodrow Wilson enacted conscription prior to America's entry into WW1 in 1917.

Democrat President Roosevelt again implemented conscription in 1940.

Democrat President Harry Truman signed the Selective Service Act into Law in 1948. and it essentially stayed active throughout the Korean and Vietnam wars until the draft was ended in 1973 during the Nixon administration,..who, as you know, was a Republican president.

It should come as no surprise to people that with a Democrat administration coming into office, conscription is once again being advocated.

Democrats have no qualms about expanding the power of government and diminishing the liberties of the people. Republicans really don't either,..but so far they've pulled up a bit short of enslaving the people by way of conscription.

I guess it's going to be up to us Libertarians to advocate freedom, personal liberties and limited governmental power from now on.

It seems that most Republicans and Democrats prefer governmental tyranny these days.

powderman · « **Reply #67 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:59:55 PM »

fazak. Sounds to me like you're just wanting a free ride. Live off the blood and sweat of real American patriots. POWDERMAN.

Fazak · « **Reply #68 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:06:04 PM »

Quote from: powderman on January 18, 2009, 02:59:55 PM

fazak. Sounds to me like you're just wanting a free ride. Live off the blood and sweat of real American patriots. POWDERMAN.

Well,... I pay my debts to those I owe.

But I don't feel any true obligation to give to everyone who says that I owe them something.

The world is full of parasites who will take from you until there's nothing left.

Government is the biggest parasite of all. In fact,.. government will "own" you if it can get away with it.

There's a lot of people in the world who consider it an honor to be owned by the government.

I've always made it a point not to ask for anything from the government so I can continue to own myself.

powderman · « **Reply #69 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:45:16 PM »

fazak. I guess you are saying that America needs no military, no govt, no rules or laws??? Freedom isn't free, it has been paid for in blood over hundreds of years, bloody battles and wars. Many thousands have given their lives to give you the right to piss and moan and complain about being enslaved because you might be compelled to give something back to the America that I love. We are in a war now, like it or not. I believe my parents generation gave more than we could ever imagine. Their sacrifices are why we are here today. My Dad went through hell with the japs, my Mom almost died working in a munitions factory making tank and artillery shells. She had to quit after 1 1/2 years after her her hair and skin turned orange from the chemicals involved. She went there because she had a fiance and 3 brothers fighting overseas. If you are of draft age I hope you are left alone, I would not want to depend on you for the safety of Americas citizens. POWDERMAN.

Fazak · « **Reply #70 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:54:30 PM »

You can relax, Powderman. I'm quite sure that the Obama administration is going to tell you that you belong to the government.

powderman · « **Reply #71 on:** January 18, 2009, 05:09:48 PM »

fazak. We the people are supposed to be the govt. I didn't vote for osama, I actually fear my own govt now. You don't need to worry about a draft during the next 4 years. Osama, like all dems, hates our military. The next 4 years will be horrible for American gunowners and patriots. He will hurt our defense capabilty even more than klinton did. Go along for the free ride, seems thats all you are interested in. POWDERMAN.

Fazak · « **Reply #72 on:** January 18, 2009, 05:11:35 PM »

Quote from: powderman on January 18, 2009, 05:09:48 PM

fazak. We the people are supposed to be the govt.

As Dr Phil would say,.."How has that been workin' out for ya?"

alsaqr · « **Reply #73 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:59:31 AM »

Either the country is worth fighting for or it is not. I am descended from 12 Revolutionary War veterans who fought British tyranny in order to be free: One of them died in that fight. Those 10 million WWII draftees believed that the USA is worth fighting for. My Dad and his three brothers thought the country is worth fighting for and they served with distinction. My brother thought the USA is worth fighting for and he died defending those beliefs in Ia Drang Valley, RVN in 1965. Am crippled up some from my service but damn it, it was worth it.

Americans are free because millions of patriots rightly decided that the country is worth fighting for. The anarchists, freeloaders and cowards can do as they wish.

powderman · « **Reply #74 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:13:02 AM »

ALSAGR. All true and agreed Sir. Thank you for your service.
fazak. Enjoy your free ride on the blood of patriots. POWDERMAN.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #75 on:** January 19, 2009, 02:28:50 AM »

"The world is full of parasites who will take from you until there's nothing left."

Fazak I'm sure you are an expert on parasites. Especially the kind of parasites that live off the blood of others.

kiddekop · « **Reply #76 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:03:10 AM »

The military draft should be reinstated with a mandatory 2 years then 8 years active reserve without any deferments for anyone or any reason!

magooch · « **Reply #77 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:53:51 AM »

Since when is it liberal to want the best military possible? You don't get that by having a draft. In the modern military it takes more than knowing how to march and take orders and maybe fire a weapon. It takes technicians and highly trained people to operate and maintain the sophisticated weapons, etc. Training takes time and costs lots of money. Two years is not long enough to make it cost effective and efficient.

The military we have now is by far the best and brightest this country has ever had and there is not one person there who was drafted. They are there because they think this country is worth fighting for; not because some draft says they have to be there.

The days of needing millions of bodies in uniform to make up a proper fighting force is over. It would be like having draftees to man our police forces. Todays military is every bit as professional as any other vocation and that is as it should be. The lack of a draft doesn't prevent anyone who is fit from serving, but it does help to keep those out who lack the dedication and desire to fight for our country.

And by the way, I served in both the Navy and the Air Force. Even though the draft existed when I served, that was not the reason I enlisted. I willingly joined because I wanted to serve my country, not because some law said I had to. That isn't in any way a dig at those who were drafted. Unlike some, here, I don't find the need to insult others by insinuation, just because I have a different opinion of how our military should be constituted.

Fazak · « **Reply #78 on:** January 19, 2009, 05:59:39 AM »

Quote from: alsaqr on January 19, 2009, 01:59:31 AM

I am descended from 12 Revolutionary War veterans who fought British tyranny in order to be free:

And now you have a government that's more tyrannical than King George III could have ever imagined.

The primary reason given for the Revolutionary war was taxation of the colonies by the British.

The amount of taxes paid to the British were a drop in the bucket compared to what's demanded in taxes by today's American government.

powderman · « **Reply #79 on:** January 19, 2009, 06:03:34 AM »

No doubt we have the best in the world but I can see advantages to the all volunteer army and the draft. During war the military has needs that must be met, drs for example. Not many real drs will join up out of patriotism, in a war they would be drafted. A lot of the military are there for an education, a better life than what they had, nothing wrong with that either. I believe the military makes everyone a better person. Military teaches discipline, patriotism, and hard work. There is a job in the military for almost everybody, cooks, mechanics, pilots, drivers of all kinds, secretaries, drs, even lawyers. With a draft you get people from all walks of life, from the very best, to the worst, both rich, and poor. Yeah I know, the rich can buy their way out in some cases. Without the draft there would have been no Audie Murphies, among others. I'm proud of our military and deem them the best in the world no matter where they come from, or how they got there. We pray daily for our troops, their families, and our allies. May God always bless them and protect them from harm and the Godless ones. POWDERMAN.

Fazak · « **Reply #80 on:** January 19, 2009, 06:40:46 AM »

Quote from: powderman on January 19, 2009, 06:03:34 AM

I believe the military makes everyone a better person.

Even the one's who die in combat?

rex6666 · « **Reply #81 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:38:46 AM »

Yea we pay a lot more taxes now than under British rule, but we are a lot larger and we have way more. Seems like fazak is one of those that wants every thing, and not pay or do anything to get it, The U.S. of A does not owe you anything that it is not
already giving you. You might want to think about moving your elegance to
some other country more to your liking

Cement Man · « **Reply #82 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:52:12 AM »

Quote from: Fazak on January 19, 2009, 06:40:46 AM

Quote from: powderman on January 19, 2009, 06:03:34 AM
I believe the military makes everyone a better person.

Even the one's who die in combat?

I never knew anyone that wanted to die in combat, although I knew several that did die in combat. Some, quite voluntarily put themselve into positions that got them killed because they were loyal and brave and believed in something bigger than their own comfort, safety, freedom, and ultimately, their life.
In some cases, I know that they were true, brave, honorable, steadfast men before they joined the military. Others may have developed into it because of their service. I don't know and never will.
I do know that they deserve all of our eternal respect and honor. I know that because I knew them I am a better person, if only because I measure my own shortcomings against their great courage. I also know that if it were not many, many heroes that we would not enjoy the freedom of sitting on the internet, running off at the mouth.
Fazak, you have made a lot of silly, illogical statements, but one thing you have made very clear - your personal freedom, wealth, and comfort is not to be compromised by or for any government.
Although is quite legal in this country for you to say just about anything you want, you seem unqualified to understand all of the issues in this discussion.

powderman · « **Reply #83 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:23:09 AM »

fazak. The ones who died in combat should at least deserve honorable mention by you. You act like they have died for nothing, and border on disrespect for ALL the brave men and women serving our great nation. Are you not American??? Or just a dem?? Your attitude toward the United Staes military pretty well mirrors that of the dumcrap party. Bet you'll enjoy osamas speech tomorrow. You share a lot of his non values. POWDERMAN.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #84 on:** January 19, 2009, 12:23:55 PM »

As I said before PM there alot of parasites in the world that live off the blood of those who served in the military.

jlchucker · « **Reply #85 on:** January 20, 2009, 02:28:34 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on January 19, 2009, 12:23:55 PM

As I said before PM there alot of parasites in the world that live off the blood of those who served in the military.

Fazak is one of them, from what I've been reading in this thread.

alsaqr · « **Reply #86 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:08:09 AM »

Quote

As I said before PM there alot of parasites in the world that live off the blood of those who served in the military.

Good post.

maggot · « **Reply #87 on:** January 20, 2009, 06:53:04 AM »

I think Fazak puts individual liberty before collective well being. Kinda reminds me of Thomas Jefferson. He would probably fight if he thought there was a real threat to the U.S. A parasite is a person or entity that feeds or benefits from the wealth/labor of others. Fazak is not a parasite, he is a sovereign individual with God given rights, not property of the U.S. Government.

WylieKy · « **Reply #88 on:** January 20, 2009, 07:24:13 AM »

I think that the blood of patriots is a holy thing with which our Constitution was written. I also think that a third of it was ripped up and used to start campfires during the civil war, the other third was used as a snot rag during Viet Nam, and the other 3rd was used as toilet paper, then had the Patriot Act written on the other side... The only reason I can write this is that they haven't managed to take our guns yet. As soon as they acomplish that......see ya.

Let's play a game.... Let's say I was buying you a gun for Christmas, it was one that I knew you would honor, enjoy, and use. 3 days before Christmas you break into my house and steal that gun because you think you -need- it. You don't ask, you just take it. At that point you have turned a wonderful gift into malicious theft. Same thing of the draft.

If I determine that there is need to protect our country and that need outweighs my civilian obligations, I will jump. If the fight is NOT just, or not vital in my opinion, I will not. Folks, the difference between sacrifice and slavery, gift and theft, makeing love and rape is choice.

BBF · « **Reply #89 on:** January 21, 2009, 04:38:18 AM »

In those countries where there is conscription you have a choice to refuse it.
That refusal will cost you either jail time, some other civil service obligation or the firing squad depending on where you live and at what time you made that decision. Amazingly one of the countries that has conscription hasn't been involved in any war, police action or other UN sanctioned baloney for a very long time. Good for you Switzerland !!