Author Topic: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...  (Read 1149 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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This one seems to be chambered for .45-70.  The breech rotates 180 degrees CW to close, camming the extractor forward.  The firing pin knob has to be cocked manually.  After firing the breechblock is rotated back 180 deg. CCW, and the manually-operated extractor lever which was once on right side of breech housing, is moved rearward to extract case.  It still moves fine but the handle is missing.  The barrel is rifled and may have been a surplus .45-70 rifle, that would have been a practical way to start this project.  Notice the little sets of matchmarks.  This appears to have been made by a very good machinist back in say late 19th C.,, but I have no way to tell the age for sure.

The interesting thing is that this works almost identically to the French 75MM gun M1897, so I'm wondering whether this model preceeded that development, or came afterward.  If you wanted to make one of these, check with BATFE for minimum barrel length required to qualify as a "rifle" and not fall into a category that is more tightly regulated.  I was led to believe that this model predates 1899, but again, no proof.

I have not fired this and won't until I get a better mounting, which may be never, but it is all ready to shoot if properly mounted.  I'd always start shooting something like this with a greatly reduced load, say original load was 70 grains black powder and 500 grain bullet, I'd still use the same bullet but with maybe 15 grains of powder, then work up to somewhat more only until it had a nice target trajectory for 100 yards where I could hit a 55 gal. drum or something.  I don't want to risk damaging an interesting antique like this, and may in fact never shoot the thing.

I think if I counted right, the 10th and 11th photos show the striker held in cocked position by the spring-loaded sear/trigger lever.















Offline subdjoe

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 12:02:15 PM »
Do you have any idea what the application for this piece was?  If it is indeed chambered in 45-70, it seems a lot of effort for a standard rifle caliber.  Maybe someone said "gee I wonder if..."
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Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 12:36:19 PM »
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Do you have any idea what the application for this piece was?

Not the foggiest idea, sorry.  I think the best guess would be about what you mentioned, someone wanted to make a little cannon and did it.  I've seen hundreds of completely different designs for these "machinist" cannons, some complete with interrupted-thread breech mechs, full recoil-counterrecoil mechs, traverse, elevation, everything a big gun has.  I collected them pretty actively for a while, I'd still buy a nice one showing excellent workmanship, that's what I look for.  If I get time I can post pix of some others.  Some people even design their own custom cartridges to fit their guns, I have one or two like that.

Back in the 20's or 30's, one of the magazines, either Popular Science or maybe it was Popular Mechanics, published plans every now and then for exactly how to make various designs, and one of my friends has seen some he knows came from those plans.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 04:59:58 PM »
By the style of mounting  it could have been made for a yacht club for starting the race 45-70 would be a loud enough blank.
Yeah I know why have a rifled barrel?  Had one? surplus? I have seen a small cannon made out of a trapdoor breach and cut down barrel,
set on a field carriage they used a brass hammer to hit the firing pin starting the race. it had been made by a member of the club back in the
1920's and was still in use when I saw it in the 1970's
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Double D

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 05:25:11 PM »
Clinker shooter?

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 09:54:33 PM »
It kinda looks like some of the older sub-caliber devices for sighting in artillery.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Victor3

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 11:39:17 PM »
 That's neat!

 It appears that the firing mechanism threads into the breech block so that when you rotate it CCW, it unscrews ~1/2 turn, right? The little shell popper-outer feature is cool. I bet it required a substantial tug to eject a 45-70 case. The handle might be missing because it snapped off; the hole where it mounted looks pretty small.

 According to the rules here I can't give any legal info. However, a read of the ATF definition of a 'rifle' (mainly bbl length, OAL and bore size) and the legality of making a rifle by an individual for personal use (not for sale or transfer) might be encouraging to someone contemplating making something similar  ;)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 04:34:09 PM »
"The little shell popper-outer feature..."

I LOVE technical jargon! 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 06:42:53 AM »
Cannonmn, that is a pretty neat little shootin' iron! Quite a concept, and you say you have other's like it? We want to see more! BoomLover

 
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2009, 06:52:24 AM »
Only have two eccentric-breech models and they've both been posted in past few days.  I do have another strange one I know nothing about, totally different from anything else I've seen.  It was made in Brooklyn in 1872, is signed, and looks to be a centerfire cartridge cannon.  Will start a new discussion when I get pix.

Offline Double D

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2009, 07:19:31 AM »
Still think it is a clinker shooter.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2009, 07:45:35 AM »
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clinker shooter.

I guess that's possible.   If you mean for a cement kiln, those guns are a lot bigger, 8 GA belted magnum, shooting about a two-ounce lead slug.  The guns are quite long and heavy, I mean like 6 feet and 50 lbs or more.  I got some empties from one of them and I strip off the extra brass band so they'll fit in an 8-gauge cannon.

Offline Double D

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2009, 08:06:20 AM »
Cement kilns as well as boilers burning coal and hog fuel.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2009, 08:24:46 AM »
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hog fuel

They actually burn pork in furnaces?  Poor Ms. Piggy!  That'd be expensive too!

Offline Double D

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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Someone wanted to see another eccentric-breech blackpowder model...
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 11:58:33 AM »
OK thanks for hepin wit ma ejkashun!  Never heard of hog fuel, sez it is small pieces of wood and bark.  I think if its got bark it it oughtta be called dog fuel!  Woof!  Dang its cold around here.