Author Topic: The best .50 or .54 caliber traditional muzzleloader for the money... (Read 6729 times)

shootercochran · « **on:** January 16, 2009, 11:05:52 AM »

What is the best traditional muzzleloader for the money. I'm looking for around 300 dollars and want one to eventually hunt moose with.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2009, 12:03:57 PM »

Well, I've only bought one ML in my life, a CVA kit for $75 waaaaay back when. Liked BP traditional rifles so started building my own! Great fun. You ought to try it.

But if I was going to buy a rifle gun, the only one that has ever caught my eye is the Lyman Great Plains Hawkin in .54 cal.

beethoven · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:29:53 PM »

Do you want a long rifle? A half stock plains rifle? "Best" is an opinion. My favorite caliber is .45, hardly the best for moose. Flint or percussion?

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:22:49 PM »

Lyman Great Plains Rifle

hawken54 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2009, 03:03:57 PM »

I have to agree hard to beat the Lyman great plains. Ive got a .54 flintlock and love it, I really like the 54 with a patched round ball.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2009, 07:25:02 PM »

Probably a used TC Renegade. They are actually far closer to what the Hawkins were originally than what anyone sells as a Hawkin today and generally can be had used in the $150-$175 range. I recently saw one sell on here for over $200 and I think that's the first time ever one has gone for more than $175 on the GBO Classifieds. I'd never have believed it would sell at that price but amazingly did. It's the ONLY muzzle loader I own and likely ever will own.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2009, 07:35:41 PM »

well the GPR runs over $300 and very rarely are found for that price or under, used.

Shooting patched round balls, i honestly would kick the .50cal to the side and go for the biggest caliber offered on an affordable mass produced rifle. 54cal GPR is a great one but you'll have to shell out some extra cash.

You can also look into the 54 and 58cal CVA Big Bore Mountain rifles. I bought a 54cal in great condition for $175. Then i put together of parts a 58cal mountain rifle for around $280.

Search Gunbroker.com

Another option and a very affordable rifle is the CVA Hawken. You can find one with the 50cal barrel and then order a 54cal barrel for $85+ shipping from deer creek.

j two dogs · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:15:48 AM »

There is a gpr for sale for 300 on TMA. I do not know what kind of shape it is in.
I am getting ready to buy one that is immacculate, for 325.00. The kits on the Lyman site are 5 somthin.
From all reports they are one of the truest(period correct), and best crafted mass produce rifle out there. Barring a custom you could not go wrong with one as long as the wood is solid and the barrel is clean. .54 would be my choice, some say that it will even shoot a conical relatively good for the slow twist. But you could always by a GPH, barrel with a 1:32 twist off Midsouth (Drop in) for under 150 latter on if you wanted to shoot some big conicals, that is my plan after I pick my rifle up is to some time down the road pick up a barrel from Mid-south and shoot some heavy conicals.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:22:50 AM »

I don't think what you want exists. There are lots of muzzleloaders in .45, .50, and .54 available for your budget, but I would consider those deer calibers.

You could take Elk with a .54, I'm sure, but if I were going to be chasing moose, I would want at the very least a .58, and if I had my 'druthers, I'd be holding something even heavier. Guns like that are much more rare, and usually more expensive, though you might get lucky and find one in pawn for well under what it's worth.

Of course, this is with patched round ball in mind. If you're going to shoot conicals, you're talking a totally different ballgame.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:36:06 AM »

I agree that the Lyman Great Plains is a good roundball gun but as Bigblock mentioned they run over the $300 limit. The Great Plains rifle is so popular that people tend to overlook the less expensive Lyman Trade Rifle but it is every bit as well made. The only rifle I'd recommend within the $300 limit is the Lyman Trade Rifle, I consider those to be a real bargain on today's market. They are very much like the T/C Hawken but at half the price. They are rifled to handle both the round ball and conical bullets. For that reason I would go with the .50 caliber Trade Rifle. The .490" patched balls are great for inexpensive, low recoil target and plinking and have plenty of power for deer hunting. For moose you can go with the maxi-balls of 350-370 grains, lots more penetration than a .54 roundball. Whatever you get you should shoot it a lot before you even think about hunting with it, there are a lot of tricks to learn and familiarity with your rifle will pay off in hunting success.
I am very, VERY leery of any use muzzleloader unless I can drop a bore light down it and have a good look. The great majority of second hand ML rifles I've examined have had pitted or bulged barrels.

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:51:22 AM »

If authenticty isn't an issue, the Lyman Trade Rifle or the T/C would be good. I recently built a T/C Renegade with a new Green Mountain .58 caliber barrel and a T/C Hawken with a new .54 caliber barrel. I had less than $300.00 invested in each one when I was finished.

j two dogs · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2009, 05:19:43 AM »

Tis true, unfortunatley, there are far and few between used muzzleloader rifles with good bores, unless I can handle one and inspect it, I really want no part of it. The one I am looking at I have inspected, and I know the gentleman he is the only one I know that is more anal retentive about cleaning his guns then I am!

On the other side, I onced purchase a TC Encore (against my better judgement) with a pitted barrel, the gun actually shot under an inch all day long with shock waves, just saying pitting does not always mean it shoots bad.

I ended up selling the gun just because I knew that the pitting was there even though it did shoot good. I know thats crazy that is just the way that I am though.

Ladobe · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2009, 05:34:49 AM »

With your $300 limit I too will suggest the TC Renegade (or a Hawken) 54 as first choice, a CVA BB Mountian Rifle in 54 or 58 as second. The TC's will be the easier to find - lots of them around used. Contrary to some beliefs, a 54 is plenty of gun for a moose.

chg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:02:28 AM »

Go with the Lyman Great Plains rifle in .54 caliber. It might be a regional thing, but you can find them used in excellent condition for under the price you want to spend around here. Always run a tight patch down the barrel to feel for rough spots or walnuts before buying. Better yet is a drop it bore light. Check gun shows and pawn shops. Just because it says 350 on the tag don't mean the seller won't accept less, sometimes way less.

shootercochran · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2009, 06:58:48 AM »

Wow thanks guys! It will me mandatory to use conicals. I wouldn't use a PRB on a moose. I'm not biased on any one type of gun! So now the choosing starts! Thanks

nw_hunter · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2009, 03:06:45 PM »

Quote from: shootercochran on January 18, 2009, 06:58:48 AM

Wow thanks guys! It will me mandatory to use conicals. I wouldn't use a PRB on a moose. I'm not biased on any one type of gun! So now the choosing starts! Thanks

The Great Plains is a primo rifle as well as the Renegade or Hawken T/C.
The 54 will do the job and then some on moose, or elk, and the elk is a tougher animal than the moose. More Moose killed with the puny little 6.5x55 than any other cal.

I would opt for T/C guns, because they are American made and have a lifetime warranty. "They do honor it also"

The Lyman rifles are Italian made, and much better than the spanish rifles. (CVA) and Traditions.

If you can find an old bigbore CVA American made, in good condition....Jump on it, or give me a call

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2009, 03:21:34 PM »

Quote from: shootercochran on January 18, 2009, 06:58:48 AM

Wow thanks guys! It will me mandatory to use conicals. I wouldn't use a PRB on a moose. I'm not biased on any one type of gun! So now the choosing starts! Thanks

Lots of moose have been killed with a PRB.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2009, 03:39:32 PM »

i like my T/C renegade kit gun 50 cal 1 to 48 twist

i prefer 370g maxi bullits with 100g FFF

but round balls 90 or less
all shoot good
[sabots were a waste of time in this gun/???]

great set trigger

i don't know much about this type of gun
but don't see how i can ask more from it than i get

Snowshoe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2009, 05:09:50 PM »

Don't count the Lyman Deerstalker out. I think they are the nicest hunting muzzleloaders out there. I used on in .50 cal for many years, and now have a .54 Trade rifle. I really like my Trade rifle, but still think the Deerstalker is a nicer rifle at the end of a long day hunting.

Longknife 76 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:35:10 AM »

I don't understand why everyone want to shoot a "traditional" m-loader and then have to shoot conicals in it. THAT AIN"T TRADITIONAL!!!!! A .54 cal round ball in a slow twist will go clean through a moose if you do your part, work up a load, practice, practice, practice and hit her in the right spot. No its not a 300 yard gun but NO traditional m-loader is!!!!!!!!!!!! my .02....Ed

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:06:27 AM »

Quote from: shootercochran on January 18, 2009, 06:58:48 AM

Wow thanks guys! It will me mandatory to use conicals. I wouldn't use a PRB on a moose. I'm not biased on any one type of gun! So now the choosing starts! Thanks

Well there you go then, if you intend to shoot conicals the .50 caliber is a much better choice. Recoil with a .54 is considerably greater and the 320-370 grain .50 caliber conicals will shoot through about anything and do massive damage. I would prefer .54 caliber for roundballs but with a conical the .50 is plenty and still offers the less expensive and lighter recoiling roundballs for practice, plinking and deer hunting. I'd still vote for the Lyman Trade Rifle but the Lyman Deerstalker would also do OK if you like stubby little guns.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2009, 10:10:49 AM »

there are more 50 cal
than all other calibers put together

there must be a reason

and when you go shooting with friends you all have the same bore
you can swap slugs...that's how i discovered the maxi ball

i only have one friend with anything else 45 and he sold it
and i traded my 45 pistol even for a friends 50 for ammo interchangeability

i too almost got the 54 just got a better deal on the 50..... glad i didn't"t

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2009, 02:30:21 PM »

yeah inlines these days are offered in 50cal due to all of the bullets available for them. Even the 45 these days has a limited amount of bullets for it. You could always take a look at an even more wacked out caliber, that being the .52 knight. I think it has 3 bullet types available on the market.

one of these days either my 54 or 58 PRB sidelock is going buffalo hunting.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2009, 02:43:14 PM »

more likely to find a friend with a 50 cal mold

i have two 2 liter bottles full

round balls and maxi one each

Longknife 76 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:26:21 AM »

"Traditional" shooters, would opt for a .54 or larger for moose with a "traditional" round ball with "traditional" black powder and leave the sabots, slugs, maxi balls et. to inline crowd........!

kevthebassman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:55:16 AM »

Quote from: Longknife 76 on January 26, 2009, 05:26:21 AM

"Traditional" shooters, would opt for a .54 or larger for moose with a "traditional" round ball with "traditional" black powder and leave the sabots, slugs, maxi balls et. to inline crowd........!

Indeed.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:58:37 AM »

Quote from: Longknife 76 on January 26, 2009, 05:26:21 AM

"Traditional" shooters, would opt for a .54 or larger for moose with a "traditional" round ball with "traditional" black powder and leave the sabots, slugs, maxi balls et. to inline crowd........!

Why?

Longknife 76 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2009, 08:02:38 AM »

Because thats' TRADITIONAL!!!!!! OK what is the meaning of "traditional"

?? Suppose I built a perfect copy of a genuine Hawken rifle but made it to use shot gun primers, could I claim this rifle is "traditional'? How 'bout if I built a perfect copy of an 18th century New England fowler and made the barrel of stainless steel, could I claim this fowler is "traditional"? How 'bout if I built a perfect copy of a J. P. Beck Flintlock rifle but made the stock of plastic, Is that "traditional"

How bout If I bought one of those stupid Zippo lighter mechanisms that someone is selling on e-bay and replaced my flint with it, is that "traditional"? How bout if I bought a Lyman Great Plains rifle but got one rifled in a fast twist to shoot slugs, Is that "traditional"

? The answer to all of the above is NO, THAT AINT" TRADITIONAL CAUSE IT WASN"T TRADITIONALLY DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......Ed

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2009, 08:07:20 AM »

Quote

Suppose I built a perfect copy of a genuine Hawken rifle but made it to use shot gun primers, could I claim this rifle is "traditional'?

It would be as correct as a flint Hawken. Neither one existed.

Elongated slugs & minne balls are traditional. Loose Pyrodex & 777 work just fine, and they are all some people can get.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2009, 10:40:09 AM »

driving you truck to hunt is not traditional

i want a stailess barrel and lockwork in a hawken and all stainless fernature

i like my stainless laminated marlin and H&R
in 45-70 thaditional round and action