Author Topic: Ruger No. 1 .22 Hornet Good groups with flyers. (Read 3919 times)

B.L.E. · « **on:** January 16, 2009, 02:26:39 PM »

This is a 10 shot group shot at 100 yards using the range's gunrests and sandbags, six went into the lower hole and four went into a flyer group high and two the left of the main group. Could this be my bench rest technique? I'm thinking that maybe I had the rear sandbag hitting against the pistol grip interfering with the guns recoil for the flyer group or can something else cause this.

Autorim · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »

I don't think this is an ammunition issue.

Fred M · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:35:14 PM »

I think there is some thing loose about the fore arm. Check the angle fore arm screw to make sure it is tight.. Pull the fore arm tip down and slide in a card board shim to put tension on the barrel.

Ron T. · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2009, 07:21:37 AM »

My Ruger #1 RSI in 7x57 likes to shoot from a cold or at least a cool barrel. With only a thin 20-inch barrel surrounded by a Mannlicher style stock, the barrel of my RSI heats up after only one round and, unless I allow it to cool down again, it begins to shoot a "pattern" rather than a "group".

However, out of a cold or at least only a slightly "warm" barrel, it has shot 3-shot groups of .167" and .169" at 50 yards.

You might try letting the barrel cool off a bit between shots. After all, if you shoot at game, it won't be with a warm or HOT barrel, will it? Therefore, it is the "cold-barrel groups" that tell-the-tale of hunting type accuracy.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

B.L.E. · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2009, 01:06:14 AM »

This rifle has been modified to free float the barrel. I may undo that modification and try again, some people say that thin sporting rifle barrels need some pressure to damp vibrations.

Another session at a different range had groups that were not nearly as good, this range had a stack of sandbags to rest guns on instead of the jackscrew gunrests that the group in the picture was shot from. Maybe that gun just likes to be shot off of a hard rest.

While shooting at that range, I had a click instead of a shot and the firing pin didn't dent the primer, the gun never did that again. Anyway, when that gun just clicked, it was amazing to see how much the image in the scope jumped just from the reaction of the hammer fall. I put a spent shell in the chamber to use as a snap cap and tried it again just to see that and when the hammer falls, the image in the scope jumps about an inch even when the gun is resting on sandbags, so it makes sense that the gun might be picky about just where and how it is supported.

I thought about the possibility of barrel heating but the flyer group was shots 4,5,6,and 7 of the 10 shot string, besides, a .22 Hornet doesn't get a barrel very hot when being fired slowly and deliberately for a good group. The barrel never got hotter than a little warm.

I'll see what I can do this weekend hopefully and I'm going to take my own gunrest to the range this time.

Silvertp · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:32:34 AM »

My first thought was with Fred...problem with forearm bedding. However, you say the forearm is free floated. My next thought is your scope..maybe the rings are a little loose. The gun really has shot two distinct groups, so for some reason something is moving that is causing the POI change.

That said, it could be your bench technique. I don't know how much you shoot off a bench and how consistent your technique is, but those two groups look like they could have been shot by two different folks with the same gun. Ive seen guns shoot just like that when there were two folks shooting, just because there was a difference in how the two guys held and placed the firearm.

Just food for thought.

Silvertp

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:13:24 AM »

Another No.1 that don't shoot worth a darn!

I am guessing that the forearm was contacting the barrel moving one group away from the others.

Nice shooting!

Autorim · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:08:43 PM »

There is a forearm fix that has been around a long time with No. 1's and that is to remove the forearm screw and place a snug fitting O ring in the hole and reseat the screw. I have owned quite a few No. 1's and 3's and never needed to do this, but you might try it. IMHO free floating is not a good option with Ruger single shots although I pillar bed and free float all of my bolt actions - most before I take them the the range.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2009, 01:08:50 AM »

I put the Oring on all of my No.1V's as I use short Harris Bipods on them.
That is a cheep idea that works well

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:07:13 PM »

I fail to see what this O-ring does under the fore arm screw?
This screw attaches to the spring hanger circular nut and needs to be absolutely tight. Any loosness will rattle the fore arm.

Please enlighten me.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:19:35 PM »

The Oring puts a bit of space between the forearm and the hanger, This makes sure the barrel is not touching the wood.
At this point there is an assumtion that when the rifle is fired it is either shot from bage where the forearm is resting or a bipod is attached to the forearm.

Ruger # 1 Guy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2009, 08:55:33 AM »

Ruger # 1 Guy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:07:44 AM »

Quote from: B.L.E. on January 22, 2009, 01:06:14 AM

This rifle has been modified to free float the barrel. I may undo that modification and try again, some people say that thin sporting rifle barrels need some pressure to damp vibrations.

Another session at a different range had groups that were not nearly as good, this range had a stack of sandbags to rest guns on instead of the jackscrew gunrests that the group in the picture was shot from. Maybe that gun just likes to be shot off of a hard rest.

While shooting at that range, I had a click instead of a shot and the firing pin didn't dent the primer, the gun never did that again. Anyway, when that gun just clicked, it was amazing to see how much the image in the scope jumped just from the reaction of the hammer fall. I put a spent shell in the chamber to use as a snap cap and tried it again just to see that and when the hammer falls, the image in the scope jumps about an inch even when the gun is resting on sandbags, so it makes sense that the gun might be picky about just where and how it is supported.

I thought about the possibility of barrel heating but the flyer group was shots 4,5,6,and 7 of the 10 shot string, besides, a .22 Hornet doesn't get a barrel very hot when being fired slowly and deliberately for a good group. The barrel never got hotter than a little warm.

I'll see what I can do this weekend hopefully and I'm going to take my own gunrest to the range this time.

B.L.E.
Your "jump" is caused by a factory hammer that's to heavy, try a light speed hammer and the jump will just about stop, less jump = better groups.
The Ruger # 1 Guy

Slowpoke Slim · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2009, 03:17:29 AM »

I too think it's either loose rings, or your bench work. Are you sure the rings are tight to the receiver? Are you using factory Ruger rings?

You say shots 4,5,6 and 7 went into the second group, did you pick the gun up or move it in the bags after shot 3? Did you do it again after shot 7, or otherwise fiddle with the rest?

It also looks to me like the two groups were either shot by different shooters, or at different times.

Maybe also a bum scope? Did you also move the scope adjustments after shots 3 or 7?

Ruger # 1 Guy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2009, 08:50:02 AM »

B.L.E. has a;ready stated the following:

"it was amazing to see how much the image in the scope jumped just from the reaction of the hammer fall. I put a spent shell in the chamber to use as a snap cap and tried it again just to see that and when the hammer falls, the image in the scope jumps about an inch even when the gun is resting on sandbags"

I think that the way his Hornet is shooting is more than good enough for hunting, but if you want top accuracy from any # 1 you need to change the hammer and trigger to help get the most out of it.

It's a well known fact with the guys that use # 1's in Bench Matches and Schuetzen Matches that the heavy hammer fall will give jump, install a speed hammer and the jump will just about stop, yes it could be something loose such as scope, rings, or even a butt stock, but even with everything tight it will still jump because of the hammer.

Like I've said, this is a known problem with the # 1, so guys that know something about shooting them for accuracy correct the problem right away.

Anyone can do the simple test B.L.E. has done, try it yourself, set your gun on a good set of sand bags, put an empty shell in the gun, do not hold on to the gun, no need to as there is no recoil and most good bench shooters shoot free recoil for top accuracy, squeeze the trigger, watch the crosshairs jump about an inch on the target at 100 yds.

Even with a heavy V barrel you will see a small jump, install a speed hammer, do the same thing, it will be very hard to see any jump.
Less jump = better groups.
The Ruger # 1 Guy

B.L.E. · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2009, 01:33:36 PM »

Thanks for that input. Are custom hammers sold for Ruger No. 1 rifles or do gunsmiths just take a stock hammer and "swiss cheese" it with a bunch of holes drilled in it.?

Ruger # 1 Guy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2009, 03:14:32 PM »

A good gunsmith can "Swiss cheese" it, or you can buy one from Brownell's. The Ruger hammer will weigh around 655 to 660 Gr. the speed hammer will weigh about 350 Gr. and comes with a speed mainspring, if your gunsmith does a "Swiss cheese" on it it's important that he knows where to cut and doesn't drop below 350 Gr. or so, it would also help to have him put in the speed spring, you can get the spring from Brownell's also. Anything much below 350 Gr. can give you poor ignition, and that's not a good thing for accuracy.
The Ruger # 1 Guy

B.L.E. · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2009, 04:23:51 AM »

I couldn't find the Ruger speed hammer on Brownells web site but I did find it here.

http://www.eabco.com/Ruger05.html

Maybe in the future I'll try it along with the not-lawyer-proof trigger.

Ruger # 1 Guy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2009, 05:18:59 PM »

B.L.E.,
Not a problem, no matter where you find them for sale, to the best of my knowledge all will have the Mould's name on them but they are all made by Frank Zika. When looking for high end accuracy it's the little things like a good Trigger and Hammer that make a big difference.
The Ruger # 1 Guy

Silvertp · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2009, 06:39:42 AM »

B.L.E. Here's a request.

You've got a good shooting gun, and when you are able to merge the two groups you will have a "great" shooting gun. Keep us posted on your progress in getting your #1 dialed in. If you try the lighter hammer and speed spring I'd be interested in the results.

What Ruger #1 says makes sense and I'd like to know the level of improvement that modification results in.

Cheers!
Silvertp

flashhole · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2009, 03:04:37 PM »

I know this is an older thread but I wanted to jump in on it anyway. This is what I did to my #1V (25-06) a few years ago. It has been rock solid ever since.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=17533&highlight=Ruger+approach

I've seen groups do exactly what was shown in the original post. It comes from inconsistent pressure when holding it on a rest. I get best (most repeatable) results when bringing the rest up under the action. I also found this butterfly bag rest takes all the inconsistency out of the picture and really controls muzzle jump.

This is typical of how it shoots. This was at 150 yards.

BS · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2009, 01:32:44 AM »

I have always thought, they needed a faster twist barrel.......

anweis · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2009, 02:11:29 AM »

Quote from: B.L.E. on January 22, 2009, 01:06:14 AM

This rifle has been modified to free float the barrel. I may undo that modification and try again, some people say that thin sporting rifle barrels need some pressure to damp vibrations.

Maybe, but i have 3 rifles with ultralight and ultrathin barrels and they all are free floated and they all shoot one hole groups. But, they do so only if kept cool. In addition to your forend being loose or such, you may check one more thing: make sure that the rifle is rested always in the same way on the bags and you always hold it the same way and you keep your head always the same way. On two of my rifles, if i move the front bag backward or forward, the POI changes slightly.