444 Marlin

[crashman]

I have a 444 lever action and when I load it the lever wants to open cycle open slightly as if under a spring. It has to be held closed.  Does anyone else have this or had this problem and can it be corrected. Thanks

[Mt_Sourdough]

Yesterday, I took my 444 to the range. I stopped at Sportsmans Warehouse to pick up another box of ammo. There was only one box off 444 ammo on the shelf and it was the Hornady light mag 265 gr ammo.  Well, the lever opened up almost every time I fired the rifle .  This has never happened with the LE ammo. 
  I know this might not be the issue you described, but it makes me wonder about the new 444 levers.  The LE round is supposedly about the Light Mag's equal with muzzle energy, but the light mag rounds made my rifle act differently than what I have come to expect.   I want to take my 444 out again soon to see if the LE round will now cause the lever to open up when fired.

[rickt300]

Could recoil be causeing you to open the lever?

[Mt_Sourdough]

To be honest, I dont rightly know.  I would say that the recoil seemed more significant than what I experience with the LE round even though, on paper, they are peers as far as muzzle energy goes.
But let me make sure I am understanding your question properly.  Are you asking if my hands are popping the lever open as a result of the recoil, or, are you asking me if I think the lever is openning from the internal pressures?  I suspect the latter and, like I said, this never happened witht the LE round.  The Light mag box was only the third box of ammo I put through this new rifle, so maybe this is a developing problem.  I understand that this can happen with "hot loads", but as far as I am aware, the light mag round was designed for this rifle.

[BBF]

I have had a 444 and a 336C in 35. I don't recall the 444 ever doing it mainly because there was no Light Mag loading or LE stuff available.  I do however recall that if I got a bit to pushy with hot loads for the 35 Rem the lever would be slightly open after the shot.

[Mt_Sourdough]

Hmmm... well, maybe it is me.  Like I said, ive now put only three boxes through her and the last time I used a lever action before I got my 444, was in my teens. Thatsover twenty years ago with a 336 in 30-30.  So, I'll admit, this is a little new to me.  I wish I could go shoot it right now to tell if it is something I am doing. 
  Here are some pics of the Deep Creek Range here in Missoula Montana.  Its a great range, but the snow, white paper target and factory sights werent the easiest combo to target shoot with.  The down range pic doesnt even show the plywood targets at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards.  They just disappear in the glare of the snow.

[WyoStillhunter]

I can't be sure about the issues you guys are raising.  However, there are a couple of reasons to hold these rifles firmly with both hands.

Understand that I am a hunter at heart so "pure" benchrest technique is not very useful.  By that I mean the free recoil approach where you hold the rifle as lightly as possible while it rests on sandbags, etc.  With my 444 the muzzle jump is pronounced even though it doesn't kick terribly.  If I zero using a free recoil technique then I am way off when I shoot from a field position (standing,kneeling, sitting).  The recoil/muzzle jump is entirely different.

When I benchrest the 444 to test loads or zero the sights I hold it firmly with both hands, my forward hand resting on a sandbag, my elbows on the bench, the butt firmly against my shoulder with nothing else supporting it.  That gives me a somewhat "natural" recoil/muzzle jump and I can still hold to pretty tight groups.

You can see that I always have a firm grip at the lever and forearm.  That said, I have never experienced the lever opening on my 1977 444S using LE, Light Magnum, or handloaded ammo.

Good luck with your project.

[WyoStillhunter]

Nothing wrong with the .444 Marlin as I have said in a post above.

We've had some cold and very windy days lately but I was able to produce a credible group with peep sight and brass bead the other day.

You might call the .444 the quiet big bore.  In terms of sales and popularity you can't blame the cartridge.  In that regard the .444 is in some pretty good company with very effective cartridges that have a small but dedicated fan base even though "the market place" no longer embraces them strongly:  .32 Special, 30-40 Krag, .300 Savage, .250-3000, .44 Special, 16 ga., etc.

[Mt_Sourdough]

Thanks, Wyostillhunter.  I think that you are quite right and your wisdom is indeed sound.  I wondered if I was doing justice at the bench with a light hold.  With the LE rounds, my groups were quite nice.  The LM rounds, though, produced less than impressive groups.  You are probably right and I will use your method next and see how it goes.  Again, thanks for your sound advice.

[robert4570]

I have a 444 SS that I bought new back in 1985 .
Never had any problems with it and overall its been a great rifle , accurate and was my first big bore Marlin.
For years all I hunted with were Remingtons 240 gr hollow fatory loads , nothing fancy but always dropped deer i their tracks .
I would like to see it remain  viable in sales so the bean counters wont discontinue it.

[Mt_Sourdough]

Hey Robert, I have never used the 240 gr bullets because I understand that the 240 grain bullet would not make a good choice for elk.  I bought the 444 because I wanted a rifle that is fast, carries well and has enough muscle for elk at close range.  If I were to hunt when I am in a deer only erea or if my elk tag is already filled, then the 240 might be a good choice.  Might be a good choice for target shooing at the range as well.  I see that it is about 5 dollars cheaper per box than what I normally buy and is a bit more mild.

[dpe.ahoy]

There is a small plunger that holds the lever closed and that may have gotten something in it so it's not seating right.  But, I'm betting the recoil has you bumping the lever open.  DP

[robert4570]

Hey Robert, I have never used the 240 gr bullets because I understand that the 240 grain bullet would not make a good choice for elk.  I bought the 444 because I wanted a rifle that is fast, carries well and has enough muscle for elk at close range.  If I were to hunt when I am in a deer only erea or if my elk tag is already filled, then the 240 might be a good choice.  Might be a good choice for target shooing at the range as well.  I see that it is about 5 dollars cheaper per box than what I normally buy and is a bit more mild.

Dont know about elk huntin' , but I have used Winchester's 300 gr loads on hogs and they hit hard especially when hitting bone.
Good penetration and expansion on hogs but on deer it seemed a bit much .
Not sure if them 240 gr loads would work for you.

[Mikey]

Crashman:  the lever function you reference is normal.  Both Marlin and Winchester have a safety plunger arrangement that prevents the lever from closing unless you have it gripped in your hand.  The recoil of the 444 (on the bench) will cause you to loosen your grip enough to feel it after a shot.

Hornady Light Magnum ammo is 265 gn slugs over a full charge.  You can load to this level yourself.  Hornady just makes this stuff for people who do not roll their own, which you are much better off doing with the 444.  The LE ammo I am not really impressed with.  I don't want a spire pointed round out of my lever guns - I want that old flat point gonna whop ya slug, and that works best for me.

I suggest anyone with a 444 should reload.  You should get down to Veral Smith's site on Graybeard and read what he says about firelapping the 444.  Then I would hie myself on over to the Beartooth Bullets website (add a www and a .com) to read what they say about the 444, Veral Smith and the accuracy of a 444 with top end cast loads that out perform anything jacketed. 

I use the 444 and the 240 gn slug for smaller critters as the effect of the 240 at 2400'/sec is destructive.  I found all my 94AEs in 444 to prefer heavy cast slugs in the 300-335 gn range.  You know it when you tocuh some of those off from a bench, but you never feel the recoil on the hunt.  Mikey.

[Lloyd Smale]

if you bought it used theres a chance the previous owner clipped a coil from the spring behind the piece that holds the lever closed. Its an old trick that gunsmiths use to make the action on a marlin seem smoohter. When you get up to borderline to high of pressure in them the lever can pop open on it own too. Also with a gun that recoils as much as a 444 your hand can inadvertantly pop it open.