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Offline DsrtRat

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Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« on: January 18, 2009, 08:45:08 AM »
I have been looking at second hand H&R rifles. I have 2 that are in the final running. One is a Handi-rifle 223 (model SB2-223) and the other is an Ultra .204 BBL.

The 223 is used at a local dealer and the .204 wouldbe in the mail from an avergae Joe.

What is everyone's thoughts? My plan is coyotes, more than likely 200 yards or less with the odd shot out beyond that. As for the stock, I have built laminate stock for corssbows in the past and would plan to build my own eventually.

I would like to hear the pros and cons of each gun that people have experienced.

Thanks

Paul
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Offline BBF

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 09:45:20 AM »
Presume everything else is equal, the 223 will have brass and bullets available long after the 204 goes into the twilight zone.
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 09:48:34 AM »
Since your primary hunting will be yoters, here are some things to consider

.204

Pros - Flatter shooting, Much faster w/ better velocities. Smaller hole in the fur, if you sell pelts i.e bobcats.
Cons- Ammo is a bit more expensive and harder to aquire. Some consider the 30-40 grain bullets too small for handling coyotes and bobcats.  But the .204 is an outstanding performer on small varmints such as prarie dogs and ground hogs.

.223

Pros - Wider variety of bullet selection, Ammo is plenitful and CHEAP!!!, Most likely a better performer on coyotes inside of 200 yards.

Cons - Velocity starts falling off at about 300 yards, Trajectory is not as flat as that of the .204.

My suggestion would be buy the .223 as it is located at your local dealer.  I'm working on one myself right now for my "truck gun" but really and truthfully, any choice you make will serve you well...

sam
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 10:06:32 AM »
I have no experience with the 204, by all accounts its a wonderful cartridge.

I do have much experience with the 223 in rifles, and pistols. It is very well suited to your tasks and it is what I would pick. Its factory ammo costs will be lower, ammo availability more wide spread and reloading components easier to locate and costs overall, less.

 Are you just shooting them or harvesting them for the hides?

CW
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Offline jdwolf

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 10:50:02 AM »
I'd go with the 223,  no contest.
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Offline DsrtRat

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2009, 11:00:36 AM »
Hides are of secondary consideration. I have a friend who will take them but my main objective is to remove some of them from my hunting properties.

how much consideration should be given to the Ultra with the BBL vs the Handi with the 22", medium contour barrel? Much difference in performance?
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Offline SM Bob

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 11:05:54 AM »
Quote from: cwlongshot on January 18, 2009, 10:06:32 AM
I have no experience with the 204, by all accounts its a wonderful cartridge.

I do have much experience with the 223 in rifles, and pistols. It is very well suited to your tasks and it is what I would pick. Its factory ammo costs will be lower, ammo availability more wide spread and reloading components easier to locate and costs overall, less.

 Are you just shooting them or harvesting them for the hides?

CW

+1
I don't have any experience with the 204 either. I have never heard
anyone say anything bad about it though. It looks like a fun little
cartridge for the smaller stuff. (Rabbits, squirrels that you don't plan
on eating, prairie dogs, etc) I'm sure you could bag coyotes with the
204, but I would prefer to use the 223. You have more bullet choices
with the 223. If you had to go with just one of these calibers I would
go with the 223 with a Mueller APV scope and some medium Burris
Signature Zee rings.

                                           Robert
  
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 01:53:34 PM »
Quote from: DsrtRat on January 18, 2009, 11:00:36 AM
Hides are of secondary consideration. I have a friend who will take them but my main objective is to remove some of them from my hunting properties.

how much consideration should be given to the Ultra with the BBL vs the Handi with the 22", medium contour barrel? Much difference in performance?

 Unless I am buying a rifle expressly for climbing mountains. I always choose the heavier barrel is available. In my experience, they have a better track record for good accuracy. Either barrel will equally suit your needs. I prefer the bull barrel.

CW
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Offline gendoc

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2009, 02:43:33 PM »
accuracy is the next comparison.....

for yotes that need to go away, my choice is a 308 survivor (bull barrel) and loose the plastics ::)



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Offline DsrtRat

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2009, 03:59:48 PM »
270 and down is all we are allowed in this part of soutern Ontario due to the population (and the Liberal (censored word)) in the area!!!
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Offline NMUltra

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2009, 06:34:35 PM »
I've got both, except my .223 is the Ultra, the .204 is a standard length bull - I've had the .223 Ultra longer, and I prefer it to the .204. I mainly shoot on the windy plains of NE New Mexico and the extra bullet weight makes the difference.  I'm confident that I'll connect @ 350 yards with a 55 grain round from the .223.  I've yet to gain that confidence with a 36 or 40 grain round from the .204.  We'll see if that changes after next season...

In my part of the world, .223 is still available at reasonable cost in a variety of bullet weights. .204 is pretty scarce.

H&R standard barrels are plenty thick - the bull barrel isn't that much larger in diameter.  Ultra barrels are generally a couple inches longer, so you'll pick up a little more velocity over the standard tube.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2009, 11:57:22 PM »
I do not have a .204 either - by all accounts, it is a very good varmint cartridge - accurate too. There are some that have had real good luck with them both accuracy wise and on coyotes. On the other hand it will never be as popular as the .223. .223 ammo is cheaper if you buy and you can get it any where ammo is sold, usually in a variety of bullet choices. If you hand load, again you have a wider selection of bullets to choose from and it is cheaper for cases. In a Handi rifle it is a toss up for accuracy. With a .223 you should get a few hundred if not thousands more shots down the tube before you get enough throat erosion to do any harm. Personally, I would go with the .223, I do have 3 of them and they all shoot well.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009, 09:53:09 AM »
.223
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2009, 10:00:08 AM »
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Offline DsrtRat

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2009, 10:34:11 AM »
My head is spinning. To top it all off, someone just offered me a REM BDL 22-250 for a great price. (Did not think they made a BDL in 22-250)
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Offline Datil

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2009, 11:23:27 AM »

 Remington Sure did make BDL 22-250, A man I know has one. I have a 223 Ultra, love it.
 Also a 204 R love it too, Just don't get to shoot enough. Get any one of the three, or all three.
 Good Luck Marv.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2009, 11:31:24 AM »
If you can get the BDL for the price of a Handi... get it.
22-250 will out do the other two.

Just don't tell all of my Handi's that I said that! :D


Spanky
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Offline DsrtRat

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2009, 12:21:19 PM »
The BDL is not the same price but it for a BDL, the price is right. He even gave me the option of SPS synthetic stock or a laminate. Still trying to decide.

To be honest, I was looking forward to an H&R as I can trick the stock out myself. I have found pimpin my stuff to almost as fun as using it (wife excluded).
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 01:16:31 PM »
What tim said
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 01:26:32 PM »
If you where considering the Handi at a retail outlet at reg prices. I say go for the BDL!! The handi will be there when the funds are again avalible!! The BDL sounds like a now or never offer...

BTW go for the lam, personally I never really liked the rem plastic stocks but all the wood has been very nice!!

 CW
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Offline DsrtRat

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 02:58:36 PM »
Well, here is what happened. The BDL was on the upper edge of my spending limit. I wanted to start inexpensive until I saw how much time I was able to dedicate to yote hunting. Last night, a fellow from my area contacted me with a 223 Ultra Varmint with laminate stock for sale. The price was right. The gun is absolutely brand new. He bought it a year ago, fired 20 rounds through it and then he never used it again. He described his break-in routine and it sounds like he knows what he is doing so I got me an essentially brand new gun. Can't wait to put a scope on it and get shooting.
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Offline dw06

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 03:13:05 PM »
Dang,to late to chime in only to say congrats on the find.Can't wait to hear the range report!!
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Offline NMUltra

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Re: Decisions. Which H&R rifle?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 05:28:35 PM »
Excellent find!  Welcome to the Handi world...
Spend some time in the FAQ sticky, and the Handi 101.  There's a lot of good stuff to be learned.
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