Author Topic: Modernizing the Huntsman/Sidekick (Read 12736 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** January 21, 2009, 02:45:16 PM »

I got an email today, they're starting R&D on a Huntsman/Sidekick muzzleloader that will have modern improvements such as a better breech plug and ramrod, it's always good news when they're interested in bringing back and improving products that were once discontinued.

Please post any recommendations or features you'd like to see.

Tim

ELMO · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2009, 03:26:17 PM »

I'm sure the number one change would have to be a new breech plug design. I would be in line for a couple of them thats for sure. If they don't change anything I'll still use the primer holders, and I don't want to invest in the conversion to the 25 cal. plug. So I guess we will have to wait and see what they do.....

Busta · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:46:58 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 21, 2009, 02:45:16 PM

I got an email today, they're starting R&D on a Huntsman/Sidekick muzzleloader that will have modern improvements such as a better breech plug and ramrod, it's always good news when they're interested in bringing back and improving products that were once discontinued.

Tim

Great News Tim! Did they give you any other information, as to when it might be ready for the public? 2009 (wishfull thinking), or a 2010 release? It sure wouldn't take much to make it an outstanding rig, if they would let us do a poll and take our suggestions into consideration. Not looking for a miracle, but there are a few key features that need to be addressed if they want to compete with the big boys. I'm sure with our collective experiences, we could help them build an outstanding rig.

My suggestions would be a new bare primer 209 breech plug with a hex head for removal, that seals the blowback gasses, similar to the Encore. The forend lug would need a hole for a full length ramrod to pass through. The full length ramrod would need 10-32 threads instead of 8-32, and a good jag for patching/cleaning/loading pointed bullets. Of course that goes without saying, get rid of the primer carriers and the slot in the barrel for the primer carrier tab where it mates up with the standing breech. The Williams Fire-Sights are fine, but would like to see an optional steel scope base offered. Keep the 26" barrel or longer standard, but maybe offer it with a 24" as well. Offer it in a .50 caliber with the 1:28 twist, but also a .45 caliber with a fast twist (see Below).

(AS LONG AS WE ARE DREAMING) Laminated stocks (mainly forends) offered as an option or production ready, that way they could be customized to an individuals taste by adding a straight/pistol grip/Monte-Carlo/thumbhole buttstocks.

(REALLY DREAMING NOW) Also offer it in a .45 caliber with a fast twist 1:20 barrel, with the new powders such as Blackhorn 209, these 45's can really crank out the bullets. A faster twist will allow us to shoot a little heavier bullet than the 200 grain SST/XTP than the 1:28 and 1:30 twist can stabilize. This would also open up a whole world of full bore conicals that would also stabilize very well in that 1:20 twist. With the advent of Blackhorn 209, the .45 caliber world is making a BIG comeback, the problems with the old 45's is most were not designed with the right 209 breech plug or twist rate to take advantage of that. I have tested Blackhorn in several rifles, one was a 1:20 twist White M-98 Elite. With the 209 conversion (not a suggested breech plug by Western by the way), it was shooting very well with the 200 grain SST's, but an outstanding 1 hole group was achieved with the 350 grain White PowerStar saboted bullet.

Thanks for the information. These really can be made into outstanding rifles, I have customized my 2003 SS Huntsman into my favorite smokepole, but it surely didn't start out that way.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:02:34 AM »

Busta, I added an invitation for recommendations to my original post.

Tim

Busta · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:44:57 AM »

Thanks Tim. One more thing I forgot, and probably one of the more important as for their survival. "Made in USA" goes a long way for a U.S. Company, they already know the results of farming out a rifle with their Genesis Project. 'Nuff said there.

buckslayer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:54:45 AM »

atleast a 26" barrel or longer
a better ram rod
improved breach plug that seals as good as the competition
no primer carriers
keep the 1-28" twist
crown the muzzle
make a stainless/stainless, or even stainless/nickel like the original

jcal73 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:55:41 AM »

Quote from: Busta on January 22, 2009, 06:46:58 AM

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 21, 2009, 02:45:16 PM
I got an email today, they're starting R&D on a Huntsman/Sidekick muzzleloader that will have modern improvements such as a better breech plug and ramrod, it's always good news when they're interested in bringing back and improving products that were once discontinued.

Tim

Great News Tim! Did they give you any other information, as to when it might be ready for the public? 2009 (wishfull thinking), or a 2010 release? It sure wouldn't take much to make it an outstanding rig, if they would let us do a poll and take our suggestions into consideration. Not looking for a miracle, but there are a few key features that need to be addressed if they want to compete with the big boys. I'm sure with our collective experiences, we could help them build an outstanding rig.

My suggestions would be a new bare primer 209 breech plug with a hex head for removal, that seals the blowback gasses, similar to the Encore. The forend lug would need a hole for a full length ramrod to pass through. The full length ramrod would need 10-32 threads instead of 8-32, and a good jag for patching/cleaning/loading pointed bullets. Of course that goes without saying, get rid of the primer carriers and the slot in the barrel for the primer carrier tab where it mates up with the standing breech. The Williams Fire-Sights are fine, but would like to see an optional steel scope base offered. Keep the 26" barrel or longer standard, but maybe offer it with a 24" as well. Offer it in a .50 caliber with the 1:28 twist, but also a .45 caliber with a fast twist (see Below).

(AS LONG AS WE ARE DREAMING) Laminated stocks (mainly forends) offered as an option or production ready, that way they could be customized to an individuals taste by adding a straight/pistol grip/Monte-Carlo/thumbhole buttstocks.

(REALLY DREAMING NOW) Also offer it in a .45 caliber with a fast twist 1:20 barrel, with the new powders such as Blackhorn 209, these 45's can really crank out the bullets. A faster twist will allow us to shoot a little heavier bullet than the 200 grain SST/XTP than the 1:28 and 1:30 twist can stabilize. This would also open up a whole world of full bore conicals that would also stabilize very well in that 1:20 twist. With the advent of Blackhorn 209, the .45 caliber world is making a BIG comeback, the problems with the old 45's is most were not designed with the right 209 breech plug or twist rate to take advantage of that. I have tested Blackhorn in several rifles, one was a 1:20 twist White M-98 Elite. With the 209 conversion (not a suggested breech plug by Western by the way), it was shooting very well with the 200 grain SST's, but an outstanding 1 hole group was achieved with the 350 grain White PowerStar saboted bullet.

Thanks for the information. These really can be made into outstanding rifles, I have customized my 2003 SS Huntsman into my favorite smokepole, but it surely didn't start out that way.

X2 Couldn't have said it any better.

Jeff

Hammerspur · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2009, 01:10:27 PM »

Quote from: buckslayer on January 22, 2009, 07:54:45 AM

at least a 26" barrel or longer

Available either with or without open sights.
How about a scope compatible straight combed stock w/butt perpendicular to the bore... this one needs squaring but at least it's straight. Multiple shades in laminate too!

And how about returning to the lower hammer spur featured in the first transfer bar receivers... same height as the pre-transfer bar hammer.
The centerfires could definitely benefit from these also.
Maybe this "poll" should be in the other departments as well?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:00:14 PM »

The hammer and hammer extension have already been covered in the CF forum, I sent pics of the old style hammer along with the Win M94 style extension, that R&D was started last month.

Tim

Hammerspur · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:05:09 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2009, 03:00:14 PM

The hammer and hammer extension have already been covered in the CF forum, I sent pics of the old style hammer along with the Win M94 style extension, that R&D was started last month.

Tim

+1, Good Deal!

buckslayer · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:31:31 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2009, 03:00:14 PM

The hammer and hammer extension have already been covered in the CF forum, I sent pics of the old style hammer along with the Win M94 style extension, that R&D was started last month.

Tim

man, im excited about the improvements thats going on, and thanks again to quick for gettin it all started.

Busta · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:40:41 AM »

Tim,

Just though of something I had pushed way back into the dark corner of my memory, because it seemed to only fall on deaf ears. A lot of us have wanted a 12 ga Muzzleloader barrel for the H&R/NEF Huntsman or Sidekick. We have affectionately dubbed it the "Turkey Thumper", over the years, but it still seems to elude us still today. Bare 209 primer breech plug, Fire-Sights, scope base, Rem-Choke tubes, and full camo option would be cool too. Can you put a bug in their ear to see if this is something they would consider? If they would, I have a list of ideas, and probably a couple muzzleloading shotguns for sale, well maybe not my White.

Maybe even offer a muzzleloader rifle/shotgun combo?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:05:35 AM »

They have eyes on this thread already.

Tim

Hammerspur · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:18:46 AM »

Quote from: Busta on January 23, 2009, 07:40:41 AM

A lot of us have wanted a 12 ga Muzzleloader barrel for the H&R/NEF Huntsman or Sidekick. Maybe even offer a muzzleloader rifle/shotgun combo?

That's a good suggestion for certain! That and .45, .45, .45!!

Jeff H · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:00:44 PM »

I may be the "odd man out," or possibly even "out of line" here, as it seems the old round ball just doesn't get much play anymore, BUT I would LOVE to see some "slow twist" (like 1:66 or so for .50 and .54 RBs) barrels for plain old patched round balls and a breech that would support the use of percussion caps with a slot to accommodate a capper.

As long as I am dreaming, the cream would be a .36 cal. barrel for squirrels and such.

eod20 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:44:33 PM »

i would like to go the other direction and see a 58 cal with a twist rate for a 450 - 560 gr minnie with a musket cap breech plug an updated version of the old huntsman

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2009, 02:13:54 PM »

I'd love to see a 12 or 20 gauge smoothbore. I'd buy one in a second.

If the rifle won't handle Blackhorn 209, they shouldn't even bother making it. I'd also prefer bare 209 primers. A wood stock of some kind would also be welcome.

Jeff H · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2009, 02:47:16 PM »

Quote from: eod20 on January 24, 2009, 05:44:33 PM

i would like to go the other direction and see a 58 cal with a twist rate for a 450 - 560 gr minnie with a musket cap breech plug an updated version of the old huntsman

I could live with that even. A .58 would be fine. If the twist didn't get too much below 1:48 (which may be OK for the Minies?), I think I could push RBs fast "enough" that the larger diameter/greater mass of the .58 would put me in in the "neighborhood." Can't handle the Minies due to neck and shoulder injuries and am stingy with lead. Since the biggest thing I would be shooting at would be a whitetail, RBs are plenty. When there were NEW Huntsmen on the racks, I covetted them. As a kid, the Ol' Man was in charge of the purse strings and he "didn't believe in" muzzle-loaders, so........

I know that there are short .50's out there with a so-called "compromise" twist of 1:48 to allow the use of some sort of "conical" or Minie as well as round balls. Not sure how effective they are on either though.

I agree with Swampman on the smoothbore too. I would be "in" if there were a combo available. I can think of no better platform for such an outfit.

grouse · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:29:37 PM »

A good recoil pad, BH209 compatible. Get rid of the blow back. A QLA wouldn't hurt a thing. If possible, sell it with a Power Rod. Stainless steel barrels is a must. An option to buy with out sights. A good manual with tested loads and data for the new owner to start with. Also include contact information to buy Bullets, Powder, and Sabots. Primers should also be talked about as well. Federal 209A is about a must with BH209 in most current Muzzleloaders.

Lane · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2009, 04:28:15 PM »

Quote from: Hammerspur on January 23, 2009, 11:18:46 AM

Quote from: Busta on January 23, 2009, 07:40:41 AM
A lot of us have wanted a 12 ga Muzzleloader barrel for the H&R/NEF Huntsman or Sidekick. Maybe even offer a muzzleloader rifle/shotgun combo?

That's a good suggestion for certain! That and .45, .45, .45!!

YES!!!! .45, .45, .45

And offer it in a 1:15 or 1:16 FAST twist with a 28 inch tapered barrel

.

Underclocked · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2009, 06:23:56 PM »

I would add a hammer that is more gracefully designed and doesn't extend as high as the current ones. Make the hammer extension an included item. Maintain consistently good triggers at a reasonable pull weight (2.5-3.5lbs). Of course the ramrod change HAS to be there. A better fit of stocks and more solid mesh of stock to action. Perhaps a bit more meat in the forend. Keep the weight down (24" barrels are fine by me) and maintain recoil handling as good or better than the current models.

Hammerspur · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2009, 11:26:30 PM »

Gee, I see alot of MM guys chiming in here...

Oh, Yeah! The thread is about Modernizing the Huntsman/Sidekick.

carbineman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:36:05 AM »

I like my stainless/synthetic 24" Sidekick as is. Weight and handling are good. Can even "live" with the ramrod if necessary.

My only request would be compatible for use with Blackhorn 209 propellant. And of course this requires 209 sealed primer breechplug. Getting away from that constant crud cleaning would be a major improvement.

jenkst · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:12:31 AM »

REMINGTON; Be innovative and design a breach plug for large rifle primers, 209's and others all rolled up in one. One breach plug for BH209 won't make the trippleseven shooters happy at all. Just ask Cecil Epp. He sold a lot of 25acp and 22. hornet breach plugs in the last 4 or 5 years. There isn't one of your competor's that have done it. Get rid of the dirty 209's if need be and use rifle primers. Don't do the same old same as all the other muzzleloader makers do. Hear's my idea. Move the small rifle primer forward then place a second fireing pin behind it within the breach plug. I think if the primer was within 1/4" or closer to the powder it would fire both BH209 or 777 very reliable. One size shoe does not fit all. Jenks

bubba · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2009, 12:38:17 PM »

in other words make it just like every other muzzleloader. I kind of like the individuality of the gun. But a full length ram rod would be nice.

MI.sabot · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:48:30 PM »

How bout the option of ordering with either a straight or monte carlo stock?

eod20 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:04:32 PM »

bead blasted stainless 58 cal, full length rod, musket cap breech plug & a good peep sight 1-50ish twist for heavy minnie's and while i am wishing get buffalo bore to start making bullets again i really miss the ball-et i think the way they could do it is just make 2 basic barrels blued and stainless as the standard offer and then offer all the options as after market add ons and the add ons could be offered for all the rifles

Hammerspur · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2009, 11:19:20 PM »

I second the suggestions for .58 cal bbls. but think a real s l o w twist for pushing roundball fast would be better.

PAndy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2009, 09:11:56 AM »

Great ideas. Might only be two of us in the country, but I would love a .32 or .36 caliber black powder barrel.

I also like the idea of a new hammer shape, if geometry allows. This would improve appearance and obviously scope clearance.

The new Hornady hollow base bullet is difficult to start in my Huntsman.

I don't like the appearance of the Handi stocks but if I close my eyes and pull it up to my shoulder...the dimensions fit me very well the way it is.

How about smokeless powder???

petemi · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2009, 09:43:02 AM »

I have and enjoy a T/C .32 Cherokee. I'd love a .32 Huntsman in a fast twist and have bullets for it.

Pete