Author Topic: radicle thinking  (Read 2665 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2009, 10:41:32 AM »
I must point out the blue voters mass in the cities and the red voters in less populated areas . The loss may not be as critical as you state !
As far as city population nice but when one considers the number of war heads in each ICBM we are talking more than a few cities muck more than a few sleeper cells would do ( and yes it could happen MAYBE ).
Japan didn't have Nukes , whats your point ? They had more of every kind of military equipment  when WW2 started .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2009, 10:52:33 AM »
I admit a lot of IF's would have to happen. 

If we negotiated down our nuclear capability even more.
If China increased theirs and their military capability.
And If we get a pantywaist president who wouldn't retaliate, or a socialist who will just lay down the arms, and let them take over. 
And If China got a dictator who was a power hungry idiot like a Hitler to Tojo and thought they could pull it off. 

And if all this happens simultaneously, which in today's climate is possible. 

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2009, 11:00:41 AM »
SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT................... The only time in my life that i had to fight was when someone thought I couldn't or wouldn't.

IF we keep our military in top shape and show now and then that we will kick butt if provoked then there is little chance of another major power taking us on, Militarily anyway.

Lets all take it upon ourselves to Let the present administration know that we will take a dim view of any attempt to cut our military the way "slick Willie" did. And not just cut the military but also not make this country look like a paper tiger the way he did in Africa. Remember "black hawk down"  

SAy what you will about "W" he answered the bell when we got hit in the jaw in 9/11

By the way the chinese will play hell putting troops in boats or planes and crossing the pacific to set foot here, unless we relax and start thinking that they are our buds an we need not fear attack and shrink the military.
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2009, 11:42:41 AM »
Last thing we need is a war with the chinese. Nuclear war is not even a consideration. That would kill everybody. China is gonna own us economically not militarily. The one with the most dollars wins
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2009, 02:45:49 PM »
Shootall very few of these folks who are arguing with you have the feintest idea how much super accurate fire power is on just one of our Nuke subs. The warheads on just 2 of them could kill almost every single living thing in China. These weapons were designed to stand alone against the USSR. The land mass of the USSR with its satellite countries makes china look small. Now a nuke war where both side get off a full salvo would be pretty much fatal for both sides. Now a first strike by our subs is probably the best thing in a nuke war, the other side would not get much off, many targets would allready be destroyed before they could return fire.

I would rather see the Chinese and muslims lured into a war against each otherand let them both weaken the other before we struck them both.
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2009, 02:53:58 PM »
Shootall very few of these folks who are arguing with you have the feintest idea how much super accurate fire power is on just one of our Nuke subs. The warheads on just 2 of them could kill almost every single living thing in China. These weapons were designed to stand alone against the USSR. The land mass of the USSR with its satellite countries makes china look small. Now a nuke war where both side get off a full salvo would be pretty much fatal for both sides. Now a first strike by our subs is probably the best thing in a nuke war, the other side would not get much off, many targets would allready be destroyed before they could return fire.

I would rather see the Chinese and muslims lured into a war against each otherand let them both weaken the other before we struck them both.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Dale
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2009, 04:10:07 PM »
That is what you guys don't really understand.  We signed a treaty with Russia to eliminate about 75% of our nuclear weapons.  We probably don't have but 200-300 ICBMS.  We mothballed our Polaris subs with and only have a few Trident subs out there.  B-52's are mostly grounded.  We had 200 of them but now less than 50.  We only have 20 B-2 stealth bombers.  Two bombs will not destroy China.  Each of our bombs can knock out one city.  All the nuclear warheads now are not Uranium, but Hydrogen which are cleaner and radiation breaks down in about 2 weeks.  I talked with local director of the old Civil Defense, now Homeland Security or FEMA, and he told me this about nuclear weapons.  This is why we no longer build fallout shelters.  He said if we are attacked with nuclear weapons, probably only the larger cities would be hit.  Everyone else would be told via radio and TV to stay in their homes with doors and windows closed for two weeks and we would be put on martial law.  He said keeping doors and windows closed would keep out any fallout and it would be broken down to safe levels in 2 weeks.  Hollywood and liberals have not kept up with the times.  Yes you can make the old fashioned Uranium bombs with all their radiation, but a Hydrogen bomb is about 10 times more powerful in the same size bomb.  China has hydrogen bombs.  Nuclear power plants use Uranium or Plutonium which can make the dirty bombs in which these third world countries try to make.

Offline WylieKy

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2009, 03:33:52 AM »
Shootall very few of these folks who are arguing with you have the feintest idea how much super accurate fire power is on just one of our Nuke subs.

You might want to read    Big Red: The Three-Month Voyage of a Trident Nuclear Submarine, by Douglas C. Waller. April, 2002.  My stepfather is the COB mentioned in the book (he has his own chapter), and was the Chief of Navy Special Projects (Read nuclear capability) for 4 years before his retirement in August 07. I have been on the Nebraska and walked between the tubes.  I've also seen it in dry-dock and the size is...incomprehensible unless you have stood next to one out of water.  He currently works for a consulting company designing the next generation nuclear sub.  I don't typically do "My daddy can beat up your daddy", but since you questioned my knowledge of the matter.....

I happen to know as much as is legal for me to know, as this is a very interesting subject to me and I had a source of vast knowledge at hand.  As far as accuracy goes, I know that at one point they could hit the pitchers mound with a warhead from anywhere on the hemisphere, but have downgraded that level of accuracy as overkill.  Now they can hit the infield from anywhere within the hemisphere.  I know that the power of the warhead is nowhere near as important as it once was...now they plan the placement and timing so that 3 warheads with 1/10th the strength can to 2x's the damage (shockwave propigation.)  I also know that ICBM are a thing of the past.  Until we or they develop a stealth delivery system an ICBM's warheads would have very little chance of making it to the ground in any modern country. 
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2009, 04:22:02 AM »
Shootall very few of these folks who are arguing with you have the feintest idea how much super accurate fire power is on just one of our Nuke subs.

You might want to read    Big Red: The Three-Month Voyage of a Trident Nuclear Submarine, by Douglas C. Waller. April, 2002.  My stepfather is the COB mentioned in the book (he has his own chapter), and was the Chief of Navy Special Projects (Read nuclear capability) for 4 years before his retirement in August 07. I have been on the Nebraska and walked between the tubes.  I've also seen it in dry-dock and the size is...incomprehensible unless you have stood next to one out of water.  He currently works for a consulting company designing the next generation nuclear sub.  I don't typically do "My daddy can beat up your daddy", but since you questioned my knowledge of the matter.....

I happen to know as much as is legal for me to know, as this is a very interesting subject to me and I had a source of vast knowledge at hand.  As far as accuracy goes, I know that at one point they could hit the pitchers mound with a warhead from anywhere on the hemisphere, but have downgraded that level of accuracy as overkill.  Now they can hit the infield from anywhere within the hemisphere.  I know that the power of the warhead is nowhere near as important as it once was...now they plan the placement and timing so that 3 warheads with 1/10th the strength can to 2x's the damage (shockwave propigation.)  I also know that ICBM are a thing of the past.  Until we or they develop a stealth delivery system an ICBM's warheads would have very little chance of making it to the ground in any modern country. 
Believe it or not I know a pretty good bit about this. In the 80'S I worked at Kingsbay Navel Base. I worked on the Trident Training facility where they train the sailors to operate the Trident subs. I also worked where they fueled the Trident missiles. I also built the nuclear missile magizens where they store the Trident missiles. We also built the drydock for the Trident subs. Anytime they were moving missiles around on the base they locked it down for hours at a time. If you were getting off work at that time you could not leave the job site till they were done. Dale
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Offline WylieKy

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2009, 04:55:50 AM »
Dale,
Small world.  Kingsbay is where he was stationed and I spent quite a few of my summers there during that time period!  Submariners don't move around like most military, my stepdad was there for over 20 years, till he went to the Pentagon and moved to Bowie, MD (he passed on MCPON).  Since you have some of the experience, are there any parts of my post that are inaccurate?
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2009, 05:04:44 AM »
Sounds pretty accurate to me. To be honest I am not sure what I am allowed to say. I did have to have security clearances back then and saw things I probably should not have. I worked many years on that base on many different projects. Dale
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2009, 05:07:40 AM »
we  killed a lunch  raiding seagull  right next  to the sub

shot  him out of the air with slingshots we built out of snap ties

a high  ranking  navy guy ran down to where we were

and  yelled  ''great shot''

i  got caught up  in a  mock attack/training  drill  that was fun
dale  did  you hear  about the big fire  i accidental set next to the explosive handling wharf   LOL
when  doing the report they  ask where i was born.....i told then moscow....they don't have a sense of humor
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: radicle thinking
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2009, 05:47:14 AM »
we  killed a lunch  raiding seagull  right next  to the sub

shot  him out of the air with slingshots we built out of snap ties

a high  ranking  navy guy ran down to where we were

and  yelled  ''great shot''

i  got caught up  in a  mock attack/training  drill  that was fun
dale  did  you hear  about the big fire  i accidental set next to the explosive handling wharf   LOL
when  doing the report they  ask where i was born.....i told then moscow....they don't have a sense of humor

No I did not hear about that fire. When I worked for H&S construction down on the water front ( I was the concrete quality control person on the job ) I went out to the carpenter shop during lunch one day and these idiots built a launch pad from 2x4's and plywood. The were putting those big oxygen tanks on it and knocking the valve off with a sledge hammer. Those things took off like rockets and they were landing in the bay. I saw them do one and I left. That one was enough for me. Dale
The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence.

A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work!!