Pa deer hunters are crazy

[shotgunner]

I have been reading what deer hunters in the state have been saying for several years now. The common theme seems to be " there are not enough does" and "we should not be shooting any does" What they want to do is to go out in the woods and see lots of deer that they can't shoot. Maybe take a little scrub horn buck from time to time. I even read a letter to a news paper condemning deer drives, as not hunting but killing. I have had 3 very good seasons in a row. Not that I have shot dozens of deer but the wife and kids have all had a chance to take a good buck and we have kept the freezer full. There are many more big bucks then in the past. These deer are smart and you need to work for them. I think the state has done exactly what it wanted to do and I think it is good for the deer as well as the deer hunters. I wish that the conspiracy theorists would calm down and enjoy the outdoors for a change. Shotgunner

[buckbeast]

I think there are still plenty of deer in the PA woods. I think the majority of the complainers commenting about lack of deer are the "sitters", who have had a customer tree house in the same place for the last 20 years. These people will sit there all day waiting for a deer that's napping a mile away. I think in this day in age, you have the best chance of getting and seeing deer if you are willing to walk a little, and keep your eyes open. I have a tree stand don't get me wrong, but if I'm not seeing deer, I go and find them. There are still deer out there.

[manofthe45]

Yep the PGC said flat out they wanted to strike that were going to cut the herd.  Everyone shot them up with the extra tags and now some want to cry foul.  Bull.  there are still huntable numbers left.  Yes some were hit harder than others but no area is devoid of deer.  Deer hunting is changing and those traditionalists that have thier lucky spot are just going to have to adapt or die.

[Flash]

Yea, the little deer were heavily harvested but there are still large numbers of good breeding stock out there. I have seen some of the largest deer in recent years, that I've ever seen in all my life. The Pa hunters aren't crazy, they're getting lazy. Too used to shooting deer in their back yard.

[KAYR1]

Hey, Guys,

I buy a non-residence license adn have been hunting Pa every year since 2000. Ive shot some nice bucks, and seen many more. My buddies all have pics of slammers from your state. I know that the antler restricitons are a tough topic, but they seem to be working. Before them, the biggest buck my brothers in law has ever seen was the one I shot, and although it was a nice basket racked eight, he wasnt huge. This year, I shot a beauty, and missed an absolute monster 12 point. Anyway, I love to eat venison, my family loves it, and its a fun tradition to teach my young boys. I have a killed a ton of does over the past few years, and that helps the herd management, and they taste great!

[shotgunner]

Not only are there more big bucks, but the young hunters can take the small ones. This is great for kids, as long as the rest of the hunters pass the little ones. I worry that deer hunting is becoming a plant a deer plot and sit and wait game. I hunt NY as well as PA. It used to be that if a NY hunter saw a little scrub rack he called it a "Pensi buck". Now we have big, heavy 8 pointers. Not everywhere, but many more then in the past. It is not Texas and it never will be. There is still a lot of free hunting on public land. Go to Texas and see how many of those ranches let you hunt for free. I don't get the guys who want to sit in the woods and watch does. I am a fan of Gary Alt and think the hunters in the state owe him an apology, Shotgunner

[manofthe45]

I do have to laugh at the guys that are AR extremists saying look at Texas.  Most of the BIG bucks down there are test-tube bucks.  They call game preserves canned hunts but want to go to Texas for a big buck that was released from a buck ranch and is kept in a small area by 24/7 feeders.  I am if its legal and you choose to do it I will support you type hunter.  I just wish when people make comparisions they would compare apples to apples.  Course our AR policies set by the PGC have nothing to do with making PA a throphy buck state but was implemented to try and balance the buck to doe ratio.  We have simply to many "hunters that will drop a 4" spike but have a corinary if you suggest they harvest a doe.
When someone gives me a good antler stew recipe I will worry about a big rack buck till then I will hunt for big racked does

[Bingo]

  The only thing that is getting me is that we got hit hard with EHD a year ago. A year ago, on the 200 acres we hunt in Armstrong Co., we found 30 dead deer. All near water with no sign of a entry or exit hole. This past season, the team I hunt with didn't shoot any doe because the herd seems to be down about 75%. The Game Commission didn't talk about it very much and it was a lot more wide spread than they let on. Some areas need to let the herd come back up. Areas like Green, Somerset, Fayette and parts of Armstrong and Indiana counties. This year we only found one deer that looked like an EHD death and it was a small button buck.

[manofthe45]

See you may be one of the few that get it.  You/your team feel the # are way down and you didn't harvest any does.  Your decision based on your observations.  You mean you didn't need the PGC to cut your tags to make a decision.

[KAYR1]

For me, it is a well-spent 100 or so dollars to spend a week hunting Pa. In my opinion, and from what I have seen, taken, and witnessed taken, Pa could become the new Ohio of deer hunting, in terms of trophy numbers and quality. I can provide pics to the doubters, just no hunting locations of course!  Great fun, Pa hunting!

[Bigeasy]

OK, here's my 2 cents worth on PA deer hunting.   Back in the early 80's, While living in CT, a bunch of us went to PA to try the deer hunting.  Went to Potter county, state forest.  Compared to Maine, our usual destination, there were deer everywere.  All small in size, lots of bucks, all with small "racks".  5 out of the 6 of us shot bucks, the biggest being a fork horn.  I'll bet none weighed over 125 lbs.

Fast forward to today.  I have lived in PA now for about 15 years.  A couple things stand out.  There are less deer now in the traditional big woods areas, such as Potter, Mckean.  A lot less in some areas.  Now days, when you see a buck, its going to have a decent rack.  The antler restriction (3 points on one side, minimum, a few areas 4) has resulted in some nice bucks in areas it was rare to ever see anything with much more then spikes.  Bucks just plain get to live longer.

A lot more does are being taken, do to the extended doe season, the large number of doe tags,  and the fact that there are fewer legal bucks.  The game commission didn't have a lot of choice about increasing the doe kill.  A lot of hunters in this state hunt for meat, to feed the family.  Guys who shot spikes, who where not much interested in antlers, now shoot does.

Deer populations are low in hard hit state game lands / state forests.  They are high in private land in farm country (hard to get permission to hunt if you are not family) and in public land around major cities like Philly, where much hunting is restricted to archery.

Over all, while it was great to have the deer numbers like it was in the late 70's, early 80's, it was artificial, and was a disaster waiting to happen.  The system in place here now is not perfect, and needs some fine tuning, but on the whole, the quality of the buck population, and the health and size of deer in general has improved.  Hunters are learning you can't stock pile deer, and it is ok to take a certain number of does each season.

Hunting is not guaranteed, but my experience in this state is if you spend some time in the woods, are a little flexible, and able to hunt a few different areas, and have a rough idea of what you are doing, you will see deer.  I hunt centrel PA on public land, and have a pretty tight work schedule.  Not a lot of time to be in the woods sometimes, but I usually get my buck, using a handgun.

Larry

[shotgunner]

I wish some of you guys would write a letter to a local paper or two. Every single time I see one it is someone ranting about how there aren't any more deer. I think this thread proves that not everyone is upset about the way things are going in PA. It is nice to know that the Greybeard people have some common since. Thanks guys, you give me a reason to hold my head up, Shotgunner

[irold]

I realize this is an older post , but I can't help respond....some of you aint gonna like it !   I've hunted Western Pa all my life....since the early 60s.  I saw the times when there was a deer around every tree.  We'd count ( some twice or more I'm sure ) 45 -50 or 60 deer on the first day....all doe or maybe  spike.  As time has elasped , things change , now I hunt in Clarion county.  We have a modest hunting camp. I've had a youngster with me for the last two years...along with my father....he's not a young pup , has leukemia , his mobility is very limited. Over the last two years , I have NOT been able to show the boy anything (buck or doe)  to shoot at.  Dad had a few opportunities at some doe....not as fast as he used to be...no shot.  The third day of the season....I saw one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen , didn't get a shot ( boy was back in school ).  Some might say ....I had a great season ( granted being out with Dad and the boy is a win in its self , thats understood ).  Point is , so far the boy has not had a chance to raise the gun , be it doe or buck.  Ya can't keep his interest if he doesn't see anything. Our deer herd was wiped out when they first initiated the bonus tags , been quiit a few years ago...its never come back. I witnessed an out of state jeep, had four hunter in it, with a trailer that had 8 doe piled up in it.  They were or at least I assume all were legel.  That was only one vehicle out of the dozen or so that were parked in the lot. and, yes, I still get A doe tag, we do like venison...I'd like to see Dad or / and the boy shoot a deer. Besides , if I didn't get my tag , I'm sure someone else would, our LMA is sold out the first day every year.  My circumstances prevent me from walking 10 miles a day.    We tried the Game Lands , which is only a mile away....the first day I got into an altercation with another hunter...I had scouted and found a spot to watch , got there about 6 am the first morning.  About 7-730 another hunter come in lower on the hillside, stopped about 60 yards down front of me....started to kick a spot to stand. ( yes, he saw me )  I waited for a few minutes , couldn't believe he was going to stop there , then walked down to him ...tried to explain that this situation wasn't gonna work.  He ,in no uncertain terms, told me there was lots of woods , go find somewhere else.  Needless to say....the conversation got ugly.  So , lets assume I walk in a couple miles , shoot a nice buck , maybe a 170 pounder...now lets drag it out...on bare ground...can't quarter it up , can't use anything motorized to drag it out...any suggestions.  Start dragging and call 911 to meet me at the road ! Anyone who hunts gamelands and doesn't have a story such as this....well ya get the picture.  Anyway , we've been hunting private property around our camp ever since.   Maybe its the county , or area we hunt , or maybe I getting too old and should just give it up.....I'm hoping the boy will go with me this year , but I couldn't blame him if he doesn't want to.   OMHO

[BCB]

I have to agree with irod.  I also have hunted Clarion County since the early 60’s and I sure have seen and harvested many more deer then I have the past few years.  I don’t see the big racks that people are talking about.  It is only common sense that when there is a 4-point restriction, all deer will seem to have big racks when they are harvested.  I shot many bucks in the area I hunt—now I own the property—and some were nice, some were small.  But I always saw antlered deer.  In 1982 (?) I shot a buck that won the Big Buck Contest in New Bethlehem.  It had the most number of points and was a 21” spread.  I simply do not see many deer anymore…

I admit that I don’t hunt with the enthusiasm as many years gone by, but I still hunt.  They just are not there anymore—period.  I also remember seeing 40 or 50 or more deer the 1st day of antlered season.  Last season I saw maybe a dozen deer…

I have a small cabin on the piece of property I own and I am there most of my free time—I go just to observe all wildlife, be it animal or plant.  And during the winter months when there was snow cover, the deer tracks were not there…

I honestly don’t know what has happened to the herd—I guess they have been obliterated by “I have 3 tags, let’s fill ‘em all” philosophy.  Or “I know there are two deer in that thicket, lets get ‘em both” philosophy.

I really don’t care if I ever get another deer or not.  I hunt only with handguns and that way I have an excuse for not scoring.  But even if I did use my ol’ pre-64 model 70 in 270 Winchester cartridge, I doubt it would be any better.  I am uncertain exactly how many deer that ol’ model 70 has harvested…

Good-luck to all the avid deer hunters in the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania—it ain’t the way it used to be.

I miss those days…BCB

[irold]

Thanks , BCB , I think we're greatly outnumbered as far as our opinion is concerned. I ,too, have gone to only a handgun.  I truely enjoy the hunt , but it helps to see something now and again to keep the interest up.     Good hunting , regards, irold

[manofthe45]

I think that the division here will almost always come down to the traditionalists and the newer hunters.  I have had the pleasure of the good old days, but am still young enough to hike in past the 500 yard mark that most hunters stop at.

 With more and more property being bought up and posted the days of the big drives are pretty much coming to an end.  enter the age of climbers, custom deer calls, perfect draw scents, gps to put you in the spot within inches of the tree you found after days of scouting, scentlock clothing and more.

Face the facts the days of sitting in granddads old lucky stump aint gonna cut in todays hunting woods.

Are deer numbers down. Yep that was the plan as the PGC stated from day one.

Do I want to see our numbers drop.  Nope, but I would gladly pay more for my license if just all the USP members/crybaby whiners  would quit bluffing and leave our ranks.

Irold and BCB  the above does not apply to you.  I have no problem with those unhappy with lower deer numbers in their area based on a decent amount of time spent in the woods during the season.  I have never said that some areas have not been hit harder than others, but when you cannot even compare one part of a county to the other half I have a real problem with those that scream and cry to the legicritters trying to get all doe seasons or tags cut statewide.

The PGC may be the ones to issue the tags, but are they the ones who pull the trigger?  If doe numbers are down in YOUR area don't shoot them, but don't tell me how to hunt in my area.

[irold]

Manofthe45,   I understand your position, and respect your thoughts.  My situation is no different than a lot of hunters.....With the size of the WMU of which I hunt, its impossable to properly manage the herd in the different locations.  I live in northern Jefferson county, and hunt in Clarion county.  In areas of Jefferson county the deer are running over each other ,( BTW its all private property, posted for the family and friends).  Where, as I said before, in Clarion couty , I couldn't show my youngster a deer to raise his gun on for two days.  Both locations are the same WMU...we don't want to sell our camp.  We could never afford another one.

Your right , too , I am a traditionalist.  I don't own a GPS , don't use tree stands in rifle season , don't use my 4-wheeler to hunt , don't rattle or use deer scent.  ( in rifle season, I gave up archery hunting )  I hunt from dawn to dark.....most of the hunters in our area hunt till noon , then to go Vince's Tavern and tell about the big buck they missed.  Last year , I had the first week off.....I did have a couple opportunities.... no shot, my fault.  However, six days of hunting...a handfull of deer ??  Honestly , If I could , I should sell the camp...and buy a chunk of ground to hunt on closier to home....I'm not "blaming" the PGC....but if they don't get it right, we're gonna lose our numbers.
regards

[manofthe45]

But what is the answer?  Smaller units? 

Please I already have to buy three tags to hunt one county.  I live in one, with a 2 minute drive(if I go around the block I am in another and wait go 10 minutes the other way and I am in another.

Hey personally I loved the county system, but again relise why that wasn't working.

Me I would like to see a statewide doe tag added to the general license.  Shoot one in your buddies back fortey in archery and you lose your chance for a better than nothing doe during rifle at camp.  Unfortuantly this wouldn't end the over harvest in some areas while 20 miles on the other side of the county/zone the deer are like rabbits.

So my question remains what is the answer?  The three day season is a dead issue becasue they cannot allow the deer numbers back to what they were.  Smaller Zones?  well lets se the changes they have made so far expanded several zones.  Whats the answer?  Maybe the legicritters can undo the tresspassing laws and make all property open to hunting?  that would end the safe havens with hundreds of deer while the SGL's surrounding it are barren.  Yes I relise I am dreaming, but that small woodlot on the edge of town that harbours several throphy bucks every year just screams to me.

I really do feel for the older generation that are bogged in tradition and memories, but I truely am afraid that this is an adapt or die situation.  I find it a little funny that my retired father and grandfather who hasn't touched a trigger on a deer in years both claim it is better than in their day.  I grant you that my dad is a people person and has a knack for getting private land opened to him, but private land doesn't mean a slam dunk either.  If you do not take the time to find the deer pre-season you rely on luck.  you can watch for days , but if the deer are traveling through the oppisite side of the property you won't see anything.

What is the answer to the problem?  What will please everyone? How do we fix one persons problem without causing problems to the guy down the line?

[irold]

So , now , just how do you want me to adapt ?  By accepting to total lack of deer in our area ?  You say , if I think there is a lack of deer I shouldn't buy a tag.......how is that gonna help.  I'm not naive enough to think because I don't get a tag its gonna save one deer......not around here.  There's hundreds more folks waiting for that tag.

Not only do we run two weeks of doe season , we have the bow hunters....their equipment is hundreds of times better than it was several years ago.  They're taking more deer......the muzzle loaders, now they allow in-lines ...not a whole lot of difference tween them and a rifle at 100 yards. Lets not forget about the crossbows....... Sorry , I may be an older tradionalist, but I know a smoke job when I see one........with all the extended , extra , etc , seasons , the doe don't stand a chance..

You say you buy three tags to hunt one county....how do ya manage that ?  Your certainly not hunting in western Pa.  The tags sell out on the first day , or maybe the second.  Sounds like your getting two bonus tags ?  No matter , I can see we think totaly diferent.  And guess what ,  I spent 3 years to give you...no win you, that right. I've said my piece......and I'm bullheaded.......no hard feelings....with regards..irold

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

 :)While I do not live in Pa. I was born there. I have hunted there off and on for over 50 years. Now, I have not had a satisfactory explanation why Pa. had too many deer. According to Alt, that was the case.(AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES) When I look around, at the state forest in Northern Pa. and the state game lands, they are being managed to grow timber not game. >:(This is what makes me most angry. Alt sold the Pa. deer herd out to appease the Insurance Industry and the timber industry. Say what you will, but since 1999 I had much free time to visit and hunt in Pa. Before Alt, in the peak of the rut, I could see 10-20 bucks a day. Including some real monsters. Every year I saw bucks. Now, I might see a couple if I am lucky in a week. I am not a bow hunter, these bucks were spotted while glassing and driving though the country. Some days it was absolutely awesome. Pa. always had some huge deer, plus does, plus small bucks. A year or so ago we drove some of the best deer country in central Pa. lots of cover food, and every thing a deer needs. In other years we would see 50-70 deer. That day we saw 4 or 5. This is prime deer country, old strip jobs, cut over country, some farms and fields.We were not hunting just looking before deer season.  Now what is so great about low numbers of deer?? In the northern mts. due to the pratice of not cutting timber on game lands there are no deer or very few. Almost all game benefits of edge type habitat, to me all the game commission is interested in is lining their pockets and doing as little as possible for the hunters in Pa. I have the good fortune to hunt a number of states each season. When I first retired, Pa. was fun to hunt. Deer numbers were not what there was in the 60 and 70's, but still lots deer. Now, it is an exercise in fustration. Sure I get some deer each season, but the guys taking big bucks in the areas I am familiar with are large landowners and their pals. I guess, if it were not that I have close family in Pa. it would be simple to just not hunt there, but it is also sad to see what was once a great state to hunt, has slipped to its current state. I guess what is even more fustrating is most folks are happy with it.  :-*Everyone is intitled to their opinions. So be it. But you will see the day, when only large landowners get deer, and the average guy is out  in the cold. One of my pals is retired and has a modest farm that he manages as a wildlife farm. He plants food for the deer, turkey, and other wildlife. Since Alt, their deer kill on bucks has dropped to almost zero. My pal only shot 8 points or better before Alt and he got one every couple years, and saw bucks every year. Now, they take a few does. It seems Penna. and West Va. are praticing elimination of their wild life so the game managers can collect their pay for doing nothing. I certainly hope the other states do not follow their lead. As for points restricitons, this is just the opposite of what folks in Europe do. There the older mature bucks or bulls are not taken until they are past their prime. They do the breeding. Culls and post prime animals are taken. Now I would not want us to follow Europe, but we are in certain aspects of hunting. Another thing, here in Wy. several units in the cental part of the state are really loaded with deer. I was there lion hunting several times. I mentioned to my pal about the number of deer and NO nice bucks. He explained the units were managed as 4 point or better units for many years. (The Game Comission Opposed THIS, but went with the wishes of the land owners>) The reason we weren't seeing any nice bucks was for years the scrubs did all the breeding of the does, or most of it. So they are stuck with a lot of sub standard deer and will be for years to come. If you are happy with the current state of Pa. deer hunting, I am pleased for you.  I guess if you did experience the great days of the past, you don't miss them and don't know what you have lost.

[manofthe45]

1. Sure I get some deer each season, but the guys taking big bucks in the areas I am familiar with are large landowners and their pals. 

2. My pal only shot 8 points or better before Alt and he got one every couple years, and saw bucks every year. Now, they take a few does.

I have a problem with your post, well two but will not get into scouting by car.  Yes I will.  It is worthless andMEANS NOTHING, but back to the big problem

Some deer means more than one which means at least one doe probably more.  I do not have a problem with harvesting does.  I laugh at the ones that want a three day doe season or a doe shutdown and then complain about not being able to harvest spikes and forks on the other hand I am not a throphy hunter and if the shot is clean I will take a barely legal buck, but back to the point.
     
If you are unhappy with deer numbers and continue to harvest doesyou are your enemy not the PGC.

I will give you this you are one of the few unhappy posters that relise that Big Woods do not produce numbers.  I would love to see at least half of PA's Big Woods cut or burned down.  That is the only way that the traditional hunting grounds in PA will ever see numbers that will balance hunters wishes with how many deer the land can provide for.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

 :)While you may not like driving the country glassing and looking, it is a very plesant way to enjoy and afternoon We have done this for many years. It is a simple way to get a handle on the numbers of deer in an area. :-*Spotlighting does the same thing, only it is done at night, often to the irritation of land owners. If you have a problem with it, so be it. One can learn alot simply looking over the country on a plesant fall day. If you feel your game and fish is doing a good job, that is great. Some folks I know in Pa. do feel that way. Mostly people who control several thousand acres of land for their private hunting. Again, if you like the way Pa. is operating that is fine. I saw it in a better day and time. ;I don't see how you condemn someone for using a permit the game comm. offers, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE SUPPOSE TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON

[manofthe45]

Yes, but areas are broken up into units.  One side may be loaded while a half hour down the road the deer maybe the needle in a hay stack,.  So if deer numbers are down in the area you hunt and you want to see more the next year you must pass today.  So until you can name the wco or BOC that held the gun to your head you shot the doe and took three out of next years pool. 

As for the BOC knowing what is going on.  They said from the get-go that they were gonna cut deer numbers and woops guys shot the does up because the game commision gave them out and they should know what is going on. Guess what they did.

So please go ahead and give the conspiraty theories now.  Slim chance you can give one I haven'yt heard, but if someone is really creative just maybe it will be new.

As for a nice day drive to see wildlife.  Isn't it fun?  I love to travle cades cove in the smokies near gatlinburg tenn for hours round and round photographing wildlife, but until you get into the woods you have no idea what the deer numbers are and where they are at.  All the spotlighting in all the fields that you or anyone else will never hunt tells you nothing  I can take you a half hour down the higjhway and show you fields full of deer.  Any evening bring a calculator cause you will lose count at around 200, but what you say.  Yep 1300 acres owned by a woman that donates thousands and thousands to anti-hunting groups and hires security to patrol her property during hunting seasons looking for tresspassers. I can spotlight those fields for hours, but it means nothing  Now the SGL on the mountain I can park the truck and slip on the hiking boots and get in. DEEP.  Deer and sign where I can hunt thats my million dollar information

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

45, We both see the job the commission does in totally different ways. That is fine. You seem pleased with the situation, and for you that is fine. ;)I wish you the best of luck in good old Pa. I can see we will never change each others minds on this situation, so for me each to his own. ;)As I said, for me I saw it in a better time, and now I do not have to hunt there, so it is my choice  if I do.

[manofthe45]

Man if had the choice between wym or pa  I would choose virginia or tenn maybe lower.  My parents drug me back here and i was dumb enough to marry someone who will never move more than an hour from my out-laws.  I mean in-laws.  someone wants out-laws.  I was raised southern and have no love for yankee cold or stupidity.
Smack the yotes.  they are like my in-laws i love them but don't want them near my house.

pa is what it is.  No I am not old enough to remember the 60 and 70's but I remember seeing 40 50 or more doe and small bucks a day.  I still saw deer everyday i hunted and the property i own is an acre in town, so I am not a large land owner nor do I have the money for a lease.

i am in the inbetween range.  i am not to old that Miles in don't bother me, but I will tell you what maybe its doing production and construction jobs since 16 two mile drag outs hurt enough to send me duck hunting for a day or two to recoup and on the other hand my kids are to young to hunt and honestly show no interest sonot seeing those 50 deer a day anymore doesn't cause me fits either.

i am not the world class jerk I come off as I just have spent to much time with people that hunt 4 hours opening day within sight of their truck and spend 364 1/2 days complaining about the PGC. 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

45, I figured you were a much younger man than I am. While Penna. has its beauty and I still find that very attractive, it has slipped in its game management. From deer to small game, it just isn't there. When one travels a bit as has been my good fortune, one realizes just what is missing in Pa. I will tell you truely, if I felt what Alt and the commission did was best for the hunters and game of Penna. then I would have no problem. But in my heart, and from what I have read, and observed in Pa. they cut down the deer herd for two reasons, insurance companies and timber companies. Money rules. To me the only reason the point restriction was put on was to keep people from shooting at deer hair, and to sell the program to the "trophy" hunters. I have no poblem with guys who choose to hunt for horns, I have done it, but there is far more to the hunt than a big rack of horns on the wall. I have almost all the horns I have ever taken from spikes to nice ones, and photos of does shot for meat. To me a spike a doe, a 10 point, are all trophies. We took that animal's life, it must be treated with respect. I don't feel the game comm. has respect for you, me, the animals or Penna. they want money in their pockets. Why isn't the timber cut on game lands, why do they buy up land and immediately drill gas wells all over it? I have no problem with the game and fish making money, but it should be used for the benefit of wildlife, not some dead beat in Harrisburg. Deer hunting in Pa. and many other states used to be an enjoyable experience, now it has become  a race for the biggest horns. Watching the outdoor channels truely makes me sick. It is a bunch of thugs moving from one guide or perserve to another killing deer and taking videos to lure the hunter into thinking this is "sport". I would be willing to bet, .45  if you put these tv "hunters" in the woods on their own in Pa. or any othere state they couldn't kill a decent buck in ten days.  I guess when I look at Pa. and tv, I see the animals  and values I held as important pushed aside, to convince people that killing the biggest buck is what counts, no matter the cost. I hunt to see the sport of hunting turned into a game of competion like football or basket ball. One of my favorite authors, I think it was Robert Ruark said hunting is the only sport, everything else is just a game. Sorry, I got carried away there, but as one grow older it makes us sad to see a beautiful experience turned into something cheap to satisify some company or persons greed for the dollar. On the other hand, it is difficult for most folks to leave good old pa. if they were born there, I guess you have found that out I guess I was lucky from the time I was a kid, I wanted out. And for a time I thought the area south of the Mason Dixion Line might be wonderful, but a couple trips there was enough, too many bugs, snakes, and creepy crawlies, not to mention tornados, and humidity. I will take the good old snow and cold anytime. Once I was in South Car. hunting deer, we got to talking about snakes, they had all the deadly snakes in North America but one, I think. I had a good time, as I was leaving one of those boys said, no place like South C. is there? When I thought of having 10 out of 11 of the deadly snakes in N. America, I told 'em you are sure right about that. 

[DDelle338]

 Wyo. Coyote Hunter---  Agree 100%

 45---  Please consider yourself VERY lucky!

 As to all of the MANY conversations I've had with people, in real life and here in this forum, you and one or two others in the forums are the ONLY ones I've heard of that feel satisfied about the deer situation in PA. Really,, you must have the good fortune of hunting in and associating with others that hunt in one of the FEW pockets of land where there are deer. Where I work, where I used to work, and of all my friends, I can honestly say that I have the word of at least 200 people that see things quite oposite to the way you see it. They are all outraged by what has happened to the state's hunting. Just about everybody I know thinks the comission is looking out for the $ and not the hunter or the game's best interest!
  As I said, consider yourself to be lucky and don't take this as a "dig" against you personaly Just realize that everyone has opinions and my opinion is that your opinion because of your "lucky" situation, is that of a vast minority of PA hunters.
  Good Day To All.

[manofthe45]

DDelle338:

No offense taken.  I too work and talk to people unhappy with Deer hunting.  Atleast 20 percent would be better selling their guns and taking up golf.  50% are fair weather rifle guys who hunt opening day and maybe one of the saturdays and then run their mouth for the remaining 50 weeks of the year.  Consider the source.  Yes some are good hunters heck some are great, but the complaints of a guy who puts in less then a week a year in the woods hunting with no prep work or scouting that relys on the same old stump that worked 15 years ago IMO and that is all it is is that his complaints are whining and mean nothing.  I could take my stock dakota to the local truck races but if I complained that I didn't win as often as the guy who spends the time on his truck knows it inside and out and spends time learning the track I would be laughed right out of the arena and rightfully so.
     My dad is the type to take the gun for a walk,  He isn't happy but relises he would have to change to still enjoy the same random success he had years ago.  He wont change, but he doesn't blame the PGC.  they told us there would be fewer deer it was no secret.

My biggest problem is this.  Pennsylvania Game Commission or PGC it isn't the Pennsylvania Deer com.
Let us not forget the Bear, Elk, rabbits, tree rats, pheasant, doves etc.

[rak55]

I started in 1967 and out every year faithfully as possible with work, lots of changes over the years both good and bad like everything has it's pluses and minuses, all I know is where I go deer will be while I'm there and beyond because I do my part in making it good for deer, hunted a camp for long time lost recently and can't manage to afford buying or finding land but all friends and relatives always want to hunt with me because it's all about the time together and not the harvest, if you gotta do something to make it better then all need to do it or else, example gun club bought old camp I hunted for years and we always had lots of deer so first couple of years there they leased more land around camp for club hunting, 1500 members pulled out over 200 doe on first day every year for 5-6 years straight along with as many bucks as they could tag and any deer they could harvest in all seasons, I never hunted with them but know a couple members that stole my camp because they knew what I had to use, now it's starting to get tough for them to get big numbers of deer out of the 600 acres they hunt and they don't understand why   anyone here got land in PA and they can't figure out what's wrong I'd welcome the challenge to help you bring it back just ask me to help and I'll help you as I can but remember it's hard work sometimes.

[DDelle338]

 Yes, I do know that the PGC is not the Deer Commission. I do know that they said they are going to cut deer numbers. But they went way to far. I knew, just like a lot of people knew that they were going to cut the herd. I only started screaming when it was evident that they had gone to far. And they haven’t stopped! And it doesn't take a biologist to figure out that they have gone to far in most areas. They still have areas DMAPed that haven’t had a deer track in them for two years! Why??? Because they can sell the tags to all the greedy people that don’t hunt, just harvest. I’m not complaining because I can’t fill my freezer or my Buck Tag. For me it is all about being out there and enjoying the time in the woods and putting my skills up against the smart critters. I live to hunt, just ask my wife! I do invest a lot of time in my hunting, doing some pre-season scouting and spend every second I can in the woods during the seasons. I take a set of hunting clothes to work so that I can shower up and get in some time after work. I do go deeeeep into the woods, not just 100yds from the parking lot. Quite often I ask myself what I’m going to do if I do shoot something several miles from a road.
  The problem I’m facing now is an economical one, do I really want to spend that much time and money to go out in the PGC’s mismanaged woods knowing that I have very little chance of even seeing a deer? I don’t feel that I have to shoot a deer, but, to spend that much time and cover that much area without seeing sign of a deer day after day, week after week is dis-heartening. And now, since the PGC has sold all the trees from the SGL that I have been hunting. I’m thinking that I may do my part in the deer restoration by not buying a license, and spend the time with my wife and daughter on horseback this year.  Just a thought.!?