270 WSM or straight 270?

[buckfever 1]

I am going to start to hunt some long timber cuts.  I am interested in both of these calibers.  Is the 270 WSM that much better than the straight 270 for flat shooting and accuracy?

Thanks  Buckfever

[Val]

Ballistically there is very little difference in the two, the WSM has a slight edge in muzzle velocity. As far as accuracey is concerned I don't think there is much of a difference there either. The standard 270 with the properly developed load can be a very accurate round. Especially if you don't reload you should go with the standard 270 because of ammo availability. The WSM and WSSM were basically marketing hype to get people to buy new rifles. The hype failed and they are disappearing from the scene.

[Savage_99]

buckfever 1,

If a lighter rifle in the .277" is what might interest you then consider the 270 WSM in the Kimber 8400's.  They weigh less than many other magnums and 270's for that matter and have the excellent M70 type three position safeties along with control round feed.

I see the 270 WSM and 300 WSM as doing quite well in the market place.  They both replace many of the old belted magnums and those have handloading problems that the WSM's eliminate.

I like the 7mm WSM as well and have that one along with a 270 WSM.  Both are active rifles.   My  old 270 Wins. are in heavier older guns.

[LONGTOM]

I can tell you from first hand experience that either one will get the job done at about any distance you care to shoot.
I have been an avid 270 fan for over 35 years.
The 270 cal is my all time go to caliber for everything from varmints to deer.
At this time I own three WIN 270s and two WIN 270WSMs.
The wsm does have an advantage over the standard by as much as 150 to 200fps and on a longer shot this can make a difference.
Not so much in knock down power but in the amount of guess work as to hold over on longer shots.
My wsm will drop about 3.5" at 300 with a 1.5" high sight in at 100 using factory WIN 130BTs.
My standard 270 will drop about 4" to 5" at the same distance with WIN 130 power point plus ammo-discontued.
The difference really starts to show at the longer ranges, say from 400 to 600yds.
To hit a 8" target at 500 with the 270 I have to hold 10" to 12" high for a lower target hit.
With the wsm I hold about 8" high for a middle target hit.
Not a monster amount of difference but the wsm is a little more forgiving on range estimates.
Just takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
I love my old 270s but my nod goes to the WSMs!


LONGTOM

[Lone Star]

Another advantage of the WSM cases is improved balistic uniformity.  In other words, a smaller velocity variation shot-to-shot.  At shorter ranges this has little effect on accuracy, but at true long range it certainly does.  The reason that the .308 has completely displaced the .30-06 in long range competition (600+ yards) is because of the former's much lower ES.  If the improved velocity of the .30-06 was more important it would still be used - but it isn't by most if any serious shooters.

But for normal shooting i doubt you'd see much difference in the field.  Comparing the long range drop of the two cartridges using completely different bullets with different BCs is....silly. 




.

[Lead Poison]

I can tell you from first hand experience that either one will get the job done at about any distance you care to shoot.
I have been an avid 270 fan for over 35 years.
The 270 cal is my all time go to caliber for everything from varmints to deer.
At this time I own three WIN 270s and two WIN 270WSMs.
The wsm does have an advantage over the standard by as much as 150 to 200fps and on a longer shot this can make a difference.
Not so much in knock down power but in the amount of guess work as to hold over on longer shots.
My wsm will drop about 3.5" at 300 with a 1.5" high sight in at 100 using factory WIN 130BTs.
My standard 270 will drop about 4" to 5" at the same distance with WIN 130 power point plus ammo-discontued.
The difference really starts to show at the longer ranges, say from 400 to 600yds.
To hit a 8" target at 500 with the 270 I have to hold 10" to 12" high for a lower target hit.
With the wsm I hold about 8" high for a middle target hit.
Not a monster amount of difference but the wsm is a little more forgiving on range estimates.
Just takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
I love my old 270s but my nod goes to the WSMs!


LONGTOM

That sums it up; good post!

[Westbound]

On paper, the WSM has the advantage on flat shooting.
From Longtom's first-hand experience, it has the real life advantage.

The 270 Winchester has the advantage on being able to walk into the beer, bait, and ammo shop 500 miles from the nearest city and having 3 different factory loads to choose from.
I favor old cartridges (and the 270 surely qualifies), but my hat is off to the WSM.

I think either cartridge would do you well, but if those long timber cuts are really long I would opt for the short mag.


And just for the record, I shoot the 270 Win and have not shot the WSM.

[Swampman]

I would avoid any of the WSMs.  How much longer will we be able to get brass or ammo for them?

[LONGTOM]

I would avoid any of the WSMs.  How much longer will we be able to get brass or ammo for them?

The same goes for many of our old war horses.
That's why we stock up now and why we reload!   


LONGTOM

[Swampman]

I'm guessing they'll still be making .270 Winchester brass 100+ years after the WSMs have disappeared.

[Drilling Man]

I'm guessing they'll still be making .270 Winchester brass 100+ years after the WSMs have disappeared.

  Could be, but we will all be dead, so does that really matter?

  DM

[BBF]

It would matter only to your grandchildren.

[roper]

The 270WSM should be faster since it uses appr 5/7gr more powder that the standard 270 and if as LONGTOM posted 150/200fps increase isn't all that much over a 270 considering the amount of powder use.  The 270 has been around a long time and much of the loading data is some what downloaded due to the aging of that caliber 88yrs IMHO a brand new 270 may get better velocity.  In Nosler #1 1976 and Lyman #45 1970 reloading manual they had data for the 270 with 150gr bullets over 2900fps and the 130gr over 3100 as it is now so the 270WSM has maybe 100fps advantage over those older loads in the 270 and you want at 24" barrel.

LONGTOM  is  saying that a 270 at 500yds only drops 21.5" and the 270WSM drops 13.5",  I was looking at Hornadys Ballistics tables in volume 2 that data LONGTOM list is pretty close if rifle was zero in at 300yds.

[Coyote Hunter]

Is the 270 WSM that much better than the straight 270 for flat shooting and accuracy?
 

In a word, “No”.  Does it provide some advantage over the standard .270 Win?  In trajectory, yes, with the right loads.  In accuracy?  That will depend more on the individual rifle than the cartridges themselves.

If you are thinking under 500 yards or so, the standard .270 Win will do just fine. The standard .270 has the advantages of significantly lower recoil, lower powder consumption, less expensive factory ammo, a greater variety of factory ammo, and it is chambered in more rifles.  As a big fan of used rifles I would think it would be easier to pick up a good one up in standard .270 Win.

If you are thinking over 500 yards, I would look at a 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag.

Nothing inherently wrong with the .270 WSM but if relying on factory ammo, cost and future availability would be major concerns.  As a handloader, if I bought one I would also collect around 500 pieces of brass, just as I do for my other rifles, and not give ammo availability or cost much thought.

[Graybeard]

A "straight .270" would be the .270 REN right? 

These days other than the REN which is a straight wall round invented several years back for silhoutte competition there are basically four commercial rounds using the .277" bullets.

The original of course is the .270 Winchester which was followed by the .270 Weatherby Magnum and then by the .270 WSM and finally the new one from Remington the little 6,8 Remington. The WSM is kinda sorta in between the Winchester and Weatherby rounds in performance but really closer to the Winchester than to the Weatherby. That's not a wide gap anyway and attempting to fill it with a short fat round seems a bit silly to me but then at that moment in history short and fat was thought to be the way to go for a brief moment.

For the most part folks have come to their senses and realized it was but one more attempt by the manufacturers to foist something of little to no value on us and convince us it was the best thing since sliced bread. Aren't all their new ideas that way?

If you just gotta have a short action for some reason and don't mind the fact that ammo is gonna be a reloading proposition only and that brass is likely to be hard to come by then go for it. Otherwise get the original Winchester round or if all out performance is your goal the Weatherby round.

[BBF]

When you get to the Wby level you are going to find recoil right up to the 7mm Mags with cheaper ammo,and a larger selections of bullet styles and weights.

[bajabill]

I have the 270wsm and would not have it if I were not a handloader.  However, If I were not a handloader, I would not stray far from a 30-06, 308, 270, 30-30, 243, 270win, and finally a 223.  Its not the availability should I ever need to stumble into a hole in the wall hardware store on a snowy night or something.  It is the cost.  I dont like paying even 1 dollar a bang, much less 1.50 or even 3 bucks a bang for ammo, when I know I can make a 300rum for just pennies more than a 30-30 round in bulk.  I also feel comfortable that I will be able to get brass for the wsm line for a long time, but, time will only tell.

[03A2]

I can well understand wanting something a little different, but if a little more velocity every once in a while is your only concern, I would take a look at Hornadays web site and look at the ballistics of their light magnum offering in .270 win.  They are expensive, but one could simply buy a box for that single instance where you really wanted ~50 yards more range, and the majority of the time use standard priced ammo.

[DannoBoone]

I would avoid any of the WSMs.  How much longer will we be able to get brass or ammo for them?

Knowing just that, I still got a WSM in 7mm, then promptly ordered 500 cases. Along with the
100 cases I already had, there should be enough reloading for the life of the barrel. 

[BBF]

If  you want real flat, good enough for any size deer and not dislocate your shoulder I'd say look at a 257 Wby.

[yogi]

Federal's 270 and 270 wsm 110 grn barnes pretty close to 257 wby loads of the same weight!

[jlbeebe]

I have a rem mod 700 that I won at a turkey banquet . It is a .270wsm and I love this rifle. It shoots great and is easy on the shoulder. Factory ammo is out of sight so I reload. If I were going to buy this rifle new I would buy it in the standard .270.

[LONGTOM]

Has anyone found any of the new FEDERAL yet.
I would like to try some of each but haven't run across any.


LONGTOM

[roper]

Federal's 270 and 270 wsm 110 grn barnes pretty close to 257 wby loads of the same weight!

I just had a 257Wby build with 115gr Barnes I'm at 3436fps.  I've got two custom 270 one has a Hart barrel other Lilja with 140gr TSX both average 3165FPS in my custom 270WSM with Lawton barrel @3276fps with 150gr Speers bullet.  I think the 270WSM is a good case and has more potential in a custom otherwise I won't of build one, best I can do in the 270's with 150 gr bullets is low end of 3000fps. 

[nomosendero]

Federal's 270 and 270 wsm 110 grn barnes pretty close to 257 wby loads of the same weight!

I just had a 257Wby build with 115gr Barnes I'm at 3436fps.  I've got two custom 270 one has a Hart barrel other Lilja with 140gr TSX both average 3165FPS in my custom 270WSM with Lawton barrel @3276fps with 150gr Speers bullet.  I think the 270WSM is a good case and has more potential in a custom otherwise I won't of build one, best I can do in the 270's with 150 gr bullets is low end of 3000fps. 

3,165 with a 140 is pretty fast for a 270. What barrel length are you using & which powder? Looks like something to try. It looks like you are saying the 150 Speer load is in a WSM, but the 140 in 270 Win, am I reading it right?

[roper]

Federal's 270 and 270 wsm 110 grn barnes pretty close to 257 wby loads of the same weight!

I just had a 257Wby build with 115gr Barnes I'm at 3436fps.  I've got two custom 270 one has a Hart barrel other Lilja with 140gr TSX both average 3165FPS in my custom 270WSM with Lawton barrel @3276fps with 150gr Speers bullet.  I think the 270WSM is a good case and has more potential in a custom otherwise I won't of build one, best I can do in the 270's with 150 gr bullets is low end of 3000fps. 

 
3,165 with a 140 is pretty fast for a 270. What barrel length are you using & which powder? Looks like something to try. It looks like you are saying the 150 Speer load is in a WSM, but the 140 in 270 Win, am I reading it right?

The advantage to building is I get to pick how I want it done from bore/groove dia,twist,how many grooves,type rifling,barrel length,chamber and throating.  Groups are more important to me than velocity but sometimes you can gain more than published velocity using close to or max load.  My velocity is high and to make sure my Oehler 35 isn't off I'll run the load over a friends chrongraph.  I don't have a factory bolt action 270 so I cann't say how my loads would do in that rifle but I won't expect them to get the same velocity as I get.

One thing I've always done if I get a rifle build and get better than published velocity and it a good shooter I may get another one using a different barrel just to make sure it not a fluke.  Reason I just got a 30-06 with a Shilen barrel the other two one has a Lilja other Bartlein 5r barrel.

[nomosendero]

Federal's 270 and 270 wsm 110 grn barnes pretty close to 257 wby loads of the same weight!

I just had a 257Wby build with 115gr Barnes I'm at 3436fps.  I've got two custom 270 one has a Hart barrel other Lilja with 140gr TSX both average 3165FPS in my custom 270WSM with Lawton barrel @3276fps with 150gr Speers bullet.  I think the 270WSM is a good case and has more potential in a custom otherwise I won't of build one, best I can do in the 270's with 150 gr bullets is low end of 3000fps. 

 
3,165 with a 140 is pretty fast for a 270. What barrel length are you using & which powder? Looks like something to try. It looks like you are saying the 150 Speer load is in a WSM, but the 140 in 270 Win, am I reading it right?

The advantage to building is I get to pick how I want it done from bore/groove dia,twist,how many grooves,type rifling,barrel length,chamber and throating.  Groups are more important to me than velocity but sometimes you can gain more than published velocity using close to or max load.  My velocity is high and to make sure my Oehler 35 isn't off I'll run the load over a friends chrongraph.  I don't have a factory bolt action 270 so I cann't say how my loads would do in that rifle but I won't expect them to get the same velocity as I get.

One thing I've always done if I get a rifle build and get better than published velocity and it a good shooter I may get another one using a different barrel just to make sure it not a fluke.  Reason I just got a 30-06 with a Shilen barrel the other two one has a Lilja other Bartlein 5r barrel.

Yes, I am aware of those advantages & have seen these vel. increases in a custom rifle a time or 2 myself. You did
answer one question by stating the 140 gr. vel quoted was a std. 270, but you did not answer the other two questions.

1. What powder did you use? (not the charge wt.)
2. Length of barrel?

If a factory rifle of comparable barrel ength can get within 100 fps it will be a nice load if accurate.

[roper]

[/quote] 
3,165 with a 140 is pretty fast for a 270. What barrel length are you using & which powder? Looks like something to try. It looks like you are saying the 150 Speer load is in a WSM, but the 140 in 270 Win, am I reading it right?
[/quote]

The advantage to building is I get to pick how I want it done from bore/groove dia,twist,how many grooves,type rifling,barrel length,chamber and throating.  Groups are more important to me than velocity but sometimes you can gain more than published velocity using close to or max load.  My velocity is high and to make sure my Oehler 35 isn't off I'll run the load over a friends chrongraph.  I don't have a factory bolt action 270 so I cann't say how my loads would do in that rifle but I won't expect them to get the same velocity as I get.

One thing I've always done if I get a rifle build and get better than published velocity and it a good shooter I may get another one using a different barrel just to make sure it not a fluke.  Reason I just got a 30-06 with a Shilen barrel the other two one has a Lilja other Bartlein 5r barrel.



[/quote]

Yes, I am aware of those advantages & have seen these vel. increases in a custom rifle a time or 2 myself. You did
answer one question by stating the 140 gr. vel quoted was a std. 270, but you did not answer the other two questions.

1. What powder did you use? (not the charge wt.)
2. Length of barrel?

If a factory rifle of comparable barrel ength can get within 100 fps it will be a nice load if accurate.
[/quote]
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If your fishing for reason that the velocity gain has something to do with the barrel length and powder those are not the only two factors  and I don't load over max published loads and my barrels aren't extra long. 

If you pull up Barnes site you will see two loads for the 140gr TSX pick one and if you want to shot the 150grTSX you need a 1/9twist barrel.  You can look at Mag-Pro the have loads for 130 gr@ 3200fps and 150gr @ 3000fps you can call them to gert a load for the 140gr bullets.

If your aware of the advantage like you say first thing I'd be asking what twist next one would be how's it throated next one might be  how many grooves.  I've only build one rifle based on barrel length so maybe with the rifles you have build are based on that you can explain how that works better than I can.

[nomosendero]

Roper

I am asking direct questions, I don't fish for anything but fish. Everyone who frequents this forum knows that. 

As far as twist goes, why go there? I was asking about the 140gr & your velocity. Yes, twist, chamber, type of rifling, etc etc. can & does matter. Never asked about that, but if you want to tell us the whole scoop, that's cool with me.

You seem to be on the defensive when I am only asking you 2 basic questions. I never doubted the vel. you were getting, only interested in what you are using to get there, no one I know would have a problem with answering that, what's the problem?

I would still like to know
1. which powder ? (giving charge weight not desired)
2. what barrel length?

[roper]

Roper

I am asking direct questions, I don't fish for anything but fish. Everyone who frequents this forum knows that. 

As far as twist goes, why go there? I was asking about the 140gr & your velocity. Yes, twist, chamber, type of rifling, etc etc. can & does matter. Never asked about that, but if you want to tell us the whole scoop, that's cool with me.

You seem to be on the defensive when I am only asking you 2 basic questions. I never doubted the vel. you were getting, only interested in what you are using to get there, no one I know would have a problem with answering that, what's the problem?

I would still like to know
1. which powder ? (giving charge weight not desired)
2. what barrel length?

I know you asked direct question and I'm not being defensive in that I'm having a hard time answer because it doesn't relate to the whole reason for the velocity gain.  Since you claim in your own words "Yes, I am aware of those advantages & have seen these vel. increases in a custom rifle a time or 2 myself."  I listed this in my words "The advantage to building is I get to pick how I want it done from bore/groove dia,twist,how many grooves,type rifling,barrel length,chamber and throating"

This is what you want to know in your own words
"1. What powder did you use? (not the charge wt.)
2. Length of barrel?
If a factory rifle of comparable barrel ength can get within 100 fps it will be a nice load if accurate"

Your thinking that my barrel will be comparable to a factory 270 if it's the same lenght that what your after plain and simple.

Again this may be hard for you to understand I don't look at the same reason for velocity gains as you do and your only picking things you consider important and again if you build your rifles based on that then answer your own question.  I'm not going into details on my barrel since you don't consider that important.  I sure like to see a list from you on what you consider advantages in building a custom rifle and what barrels did you use for your 270?