Hand loads shoot low but better than factory

[merkelerk]

I am still experimenting with loads to find the best for my handi rifle .223 bull barrel, but I am narrowing it down (and dispatching much paper in the process).
My loads seem to shoot lower (as much as 5 inches) than factory loads, however the grouping is better. Is this simply a matter of using starting load data only and therefore getting a bit less velocity than factory loads? If this is the case, I will gladly re-zero my scope to compensate for these more accurate hand loads.

- 50 gr or less bullet seems best.
-brass is full sized and not trimmed as the journey to the lands requires you to pack a lunch. This allows me to seat the bullets out a bit more.
- no crimp, (single shot etc.).
-BL-C(2) and Reloader 15 are all I have tried (mostly the BL-C(2).
- Beginning to get my groups down to 1 inch at 100 yards, factory ammo 1.5 ~ 2.5 inches with the exception of the Walmart value pack 45gr. which works well.

[jhalcott]

 Hand loads are NOT factory loads! They may/may not shoot to the same point of aim. I don't worry about adjusting the sights till I have the best grouping load. Then I set the sights for THAT load. Other wise you will be turning the dials constantly as groups change location as you test them. A change in powder make OR bullet style can make a change in group location.

[Howler]

Simply seat the bullet deeper to raise your point of impact to match the factory load.. As long as your bullets are seated straight, you should expect no difference in your group size.

Howler

[Old English]

Simply seat the bullet deeper to raise your point of impact to match the factory load.. As long as your bullets are seated straight, you should expect no difference in your group size.

Howler

I would beg to differ, my experience with reloading for 8 calibers all show that seating depth is critical to accuracy. As far as POI being different from factory, you'll find that different brands of ammo/bullets will affect POI. Just find the most accurate load and adjust scope accordingly.

[Swampman]

Most likely your handloads have a higher velocity.

[cwlongshot]

Most likely your handloads have a higher velocity.

Swampy is right, velocity and bullet weight control POI changes. Not OAL, of loaded bullet.
 
 To oversimplify think of it this way, a lighter/faster bullet spends less time in the barrel after ignition. Therefore is less effected by that firearms recoil. So it prints lower on the target... Get it?
 Conversely, heavier/slower bullets will print higher. Kinda backwards to the whole gravity thing, huh... 

CW

[Swampman]

Pushing the bullet further back in the case will only increase pressure (perhaps too much) and probably cause the bullet to strike even lower due to the velocity increase.

[merkelerk]

Interesting responses, thanks to everyone. The higher velocity/less time in barrel solution makes good sense. I have ordered some 40 and 45 grain projectiles and am eager to try them. I am full length sizing my brass as I only have one die (RCBS FL), any merit in buying a neck size only die (all loads are for my Handi, no auto loader). Also what about a bit of crimp?

As for powder, some loads I made last night using Reloader 15 and a 50 gr BT/HP require a compressed load as a starting load (Lee manual). This charge fills my case to the top and a little actually spills over, I had no trouble seating the bullets in these full cases but am concerned about pressure. In the words of Obama's spokesman, I will use and "over abundance of caution".

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Swampman]

When you size, don't set the case shoulder back.  If the manual says the load is ok, then it probably is.

[cwlongshot]

 Generally 100% loading density loads are your most accurate. So compressed loads are not a problem. (As Swampy says, as long as its in the books.) Some powders are such that you just cannot get enough in the case to harm anything. If you go too far this way velocity suffers, too far the other way and over charges can blow you up. So there is a happy medium. Stay with the books, start at least 10% lower for starting loads and you will be safe.

 As for crimping, sure you can try it. I use it sometimes with ball powders. Your seating die will have the ability to crimp. But if your going to start crimping, you will need uniform legnth cases. So trimming is in order.

Good luck,
 CW

[buck460XVR]

Most likely your handloads have a higher velocity.

+1....my .460 with it's 10 inch tube is a good example. Fast 200 grainers shoot about 8 inches lower @ 50 yards than slower 300 grainers. 240's shoot in between. Left and right they all shoot the same.

[Howler]

Max pressure can be obtained at any seating depth..
Seating the bullet further in the case causes more pressure only if you go to extremes.! just as seating toward the lands will do the same.. you have to watch pressure either way.  FWIW, If your still working on seating depth, you shouldn't be any where near a load that's gonna cause pressure problems to start with.. I stick to my original post.! Using The same load with the bullet seated "slightly deeper" (0.010 or so) will raise the POI..
Bench rest techniques, IMO should be used for bench rest rifles.! most will do no good for a standard chambered rifle..


Howler

[Darrell Davis]

Well, a couple comments from the "Crusty Deary Ol'Coot"

#1. do follow the recommendations of good loading manuals.

#2. Be aware that trying to be safe by "overly reducing" starting loads can get you into big time trouble, a situation which is most likely to happen with the slower powders such as 4831 in a rifle or H110 in a hand gun.

If you read far enough, you will now find warnings to not reduce loads with the slower powders beyond a certain point/percentage, something which was never talked about in my early days of reloading.

#3. Bullet seating depth very likely can make make a difference in group size and/or point of impact.

One of the gun writers went to a considerable amount of effort a few years back to prove this point.

Rick's thought was that changing bullet seating depth would have an effect in changing barrel vibrations, very much like the use of the Browning BOSS. Thereby, changing the grouping ability of a given load and gun.

Now these bullet seating changes should be controlled and small and done in a recorded and repeatable series just as when "working up" a series of test loads, BUT probably done only after you have arrived at the best possible group and/or velocity by normal test loading and firing.

Once the best load is found, the small adjustments in bullet seating would be employed to hopefully find that load and barrels "sweet spot" in much the same way turning a Browning BOSS in or out would do.

In my very limited testing, I think Rick's thoughts may well have some value.

#4. Seating bullets deeper can, with some cases/powders/loads rapidly increase chamber pressures.

#5. Typically, heavier bullets in a handgun strike at a higher point of impact due to the increased barrel time (lower velocity) and recoil of that bullet.

AND #6. a couple years back, after shoulder surgery and with the possibility of being one armed for the coming hunting season, I found that a 5.5" Redhawk .44, firing 310gr. hardcast LBT bullets ahead of 19grs. of AA#9 at a vel. of about 1300fps, shot way high and hurt when fired one handed.

Well, BE SAFE and Keep em Coming!

CDOC