30-30AI first time out

[gulfdaddy]

Yesterday evening I finally had the chance to collect all the parts to this new pistol and up her together.  I got the G2 ss frame and an MGM 12" 30-30AI barrel and mounted a new Bushnell Trophy 3x6x32 scope with Waren QD rings.  (I like the rings)  I figured about another week before  Midway USA would ship the ammo I ordered as the local stores are void of just about every caliber. 

  Last night my buddy calls and say we need to run out to his deer camp and bust some caps on a target and do some work on the blinds.  Shooting is always fun... dont know about the work but if it comes with the package deel then OK.  Turns out that my buddy had three boxs of older Remington  Corelock 150 grain ammo he can front me for the shooting. Cool beans!   Well this is my first ever attempt at shooting a hand cannon as apposed to revolvers and pistols.  The scope business is also new to me on handguns as well.   Not having a bench to site in from made me go prone and improvise.  We put up targets at about 50 yards and shot.  The first impression was that the recoil was not nearly as much as I expected which is a good thing.  The first two rounds were about 6" low so I made an adjustment for elevation and the others were all on the money.   The problem with grouping was all my inexperience with this style of weapon. I was not getting a solid rest and the wiggle was all over the bull.
 
 Close brush on this place made longer shots today out of the question so I just burned up about  20 rounds at fifty yards.  The rubber grips that came with the frame are comfortable, control recoil well but are butt ugly.  I may have to see TCDave to add some glamorus grips to this beast. 
My plan is to get much more shooting in to gain confidence and wring out a good AI round for this thing just as soon as i get some brass fire formed.   I am having some issues with cocking the hammer after each reload.  It would appear that I have to slam the action closed two or three times before the hammer would allow cocking.  Any ideas here are appreciated.

I want to thank all of you guys who have encouraged me while I made my search for these componets.  I have much shooting to do  before the pigs and deer need to worry about me with this gun.  The time is comming however and its sausage in the smoker!   Thanks, Gary         

[Dezynco]

Congratulations Gulfdaddy!  I'm sure you'll find a perfect load for your Contender quickly!  That business with having to slam the barrel shut is not uncommon.  You might take the barrel off and polish the sides of the locking lugs with a hard stone.  Otherwise, it will wear-in eventually, and become easier to close.

[Steve P]

How does the action close without ammo?  If it opens and closes fine with out ammo, the problem lies with your ammo.

You may be forcing the .30-30 ammo into the AI chamber.  Sometimes the barrels are a little short chambered and can be a pain at first.  With all of my wildcat barrels using rimmed brass, I ended up buying new or once fired brass to make up fireform loads.  Fireform loads are still good for plinking and general shooting.  I didn't push mine to the limit, but there are folks who do.  They shoot very accurately.

With the .30-30 AI, I would use a 7.7 Jap, 32WCF or similar die with .312 - .320 expander button.   After doing a full length sizing of once fired or new brass, I would run it into another die to open up the neck to .312+.  Try to seat the brass in your barrel and it shouldn't go in.  Now adjust your .30-30AI die to start closing that neck.  Close it just a little at a time and check it in your action.  You want to get a false shoulder right at the base of the neck in your chamber.  You want your AI brass to headspace on the shoulder, NOT the rim.  Once your dies it adjusted so your sized brass fits in the barrel, you should be able to firmly close the action.  It shouldn't take 2 or 3 tries.

Once you have your sizing die adjusted to size brass for your chamber, load up some cast bullets.  For the 30-30 AI, I would use 160-180 cast bullets.  You want to seat the bullets so they just engage the rifling.  Use a pistol powder and standard primers to complete your load.  I like using Unique in mine.   Good load of about 1200 fps and you form your brass.  Should form your brass 99% or so.  May not quite give you a sharp shoulder.  Next load up your full power loads and you are ready to go.

I use this method when loading 30 Bower Alaskan, 7mm Super Bower, 7x30 Waters, 30 Herrett, 357 Herrett, etc.

Good luck,

Steve

[gulfdaddy]

Thanks Steve for all this reload info.  I am going to file it for later.   
The  barrel is closes the same with or without ammo.   The main issue i have is with the hammer not cocking reliably.  Others have said that is a normal TC characteristic that will break in with time.  I find it hard to imagin that a high class outfit like TC would deliver goods that were not ready to rock and roll.
I can work with it a while and see what happens.  I put in a call/recorded message and  an email to TC customer service and have not received a response after several days which also concerns me.   But hey, there are worse things in life and I like to fiddle with guns so maybe this is a good thing.  Thanks, Gary

[Keith L]

  I find it hard to imagin that a high class outfit like TC would deliver goods that were not ready to rock and roll.

Only half the gun is TC.  The barrel comes from somewhere else.  Often the locking bolts need to be polished to make Contenders work unless they came assembled together from the factory. 

[hunterspistol]

  Congratulations on getting a first-rate TC hunting rig!  Sometimes I've borrowed technique from different shooting styles to stop that scope wobble. It's really just magnification of the same old front sight movement. You can lay your left index finger down the side of the pistol to steady it some.  If you get into the full draw down, you take a breath before you sight, slowly exhale as you bring it down to center, and start sqeezing. If you wait too long, you'll swing all over the bull. The steady part is in the downward movement and the first few seconds afterwards.

[Dezynco]

Thanks for the good info Steve!  I've been "wildcatin" for a while, but it's never too late to learn something new!

Since the pistol is not closing easily with or without a load in the chamber, I would resort to a little "lug polishing".  A little oil on the lugs and carefully drag a stone across the sides and top (mostly from the sides) will make it work great.  Just shine it up a bit, clean it,  put the barrel back onto the frame and see how it closes.  Repeat this until it snaps shut easily. 

You're not trying to grind the lug down, just polish it.  It's a common problem since the inside of the frames are pretty close to the size of the outside of the lock lugs.  I've run across it several times, it's not a big deal.  You just need to accept the fact that "interchangeable" is not truly "interchangeable" when you consider that the frame and barrel were not assembled by hand, on the same bench, in the same factory, by the same person.

[Steve P]

What a lot of people don't realize is that TC has 3 or 4 different size locking lug.  The size is in the thickness.  The ramp on the locking lug is a 3 degree slope.  When T/C matches a barrel to a frame, they listen for the sound of the locking lugs snapping into place when the action is closed.  If it is mushy, they check lug thickness and go one size down and try again. 

Lug thickness difference is just a few .001" between all of the sizes.  It isn't a whole lot.  I have seen folks take a file or a stone and just start grinding away on the locking lugs without checking anything.  I have checked guns that were filed like this and found only one of the locking lugs engaging.  DANGEROUS.

I have a tube of Outers gun grease.  It is BLACK.  I dab some of that on top of the locking lugs and close the action.  The grease should clean off the top (bevelled) surface of the locking lugs almost to the depth of the "U" notch.  (I have set the strike thru on to see how far it goes down my U.)  After checking I see the strike thru is about mid way.  This is probably the minimum you want to lock.  I like mine to go deeper so imagine if the strike thru line is half way down the U, you want to go another 1/4 of the way so the upper 3/4 of the U is clean of grease.

You can stone, or hone, or file your locking lugs, but you must take care in keeping the bevel and you must also take care in keeping both of them the same.  A few strokes with a good stone or diamond file can make a difference.  Apply grease and retest often.  A toothpick can easily respread grease already there.

If you go too far, your accuracy will go to lleh.  If they don't lock enough, the action can open on firing. 

If you do this test with the grease, please make sure you remove it when you are done.  Gobs of yucky grease attracts dirt.  Greasy dirt is similar to polishing compound.  It will wear parts.  I do put just a touch of grease on my locking lugs, but it is such a minute amount to keep any galling from occuring.

Good luck with the new barrel.

Steve

[Dezynco]

The lugs on the Contender barrels are for holding the gun shut.  The strength of a Contender is in the frame, and the fact that the face of the frame that is against the base of the cartridge is a "dead stop".  If a barrel opens when you fire it, it's from the recoil causing the action to break open.  The bullet is long gone and all the powder is spent at that point.  There is really nothing "dangerous" per se, although it's not a good idea to have the action flying open when you shoot.  If the lugs don't engage correctly, it can come open, but it's not "blowing open".  It's just that the jerk from the recoil is causing it to break open - more of a "tilt-open".

If you could take a Contender/barrel combo that tends to break open upon firing and mount it so that it will not move (say in a vise or something), it won't break open as it does when you're holding it.  There will be no "jerk" from the recoil to cause it to open.

Think about an autoloading rifle or shotgun, they literally "blow open" in order to cycle.  The Contender cannot do that.  That is why the Contender is such a simple, efficient design.  It's just that there is an occasional "mis-alignment" of the locking lugs to the frame.  The gun is not supposed to cock if the lugs are not engaged properly, even though this can happen sometimes.  It's not particularly dangerous, but it is alarming!

[Steve P]

If a barrel opens when you fire it, it's from the recoil causing the action to break open.  The bullet is long gone and all the powder is spent at that point.  There is really nothing "dangerous" per se, although it's not a good idea to have the action flying open when you shoot.  If the lugs don't engage correctly, it can come open, but it's not "blowing open".  It's just that the jerk from the recoil is causing it to break open - more of a "tilt-open".

It's not particularly dangerous, but it is alarming!

I can tell from your post that you have either experienced an occurance with a mildly loaded round, or not at all.  I shoot silhouette competition and have not only experienced it myself, I have seen it happen many times.

I can think of two occurances within the last couple of years.  Both by very experienced shooters and handloaders.  If fact both of them have been championship winners. 

1. A buddy of mine was shooting a 6.5 TCU 10" barrel with 142 gr jacketed bullet.  Target aimed at was silhouette pig at 100 yards (not meters like most ranges).  He was on the second or third target when the action opened on firing.  He let out a holler as the barrel opened against his leg in the Creedmore position.  The bullet hit about half way between him and the .22 turkey line which was at 75 yards.  At this range, we sit a little higher than the 100 yard targets.  The closer targets are actually 10-15 feet lower in elevation.  There is a staircase of about 20 steps to drop down from the shooting area to the target area.   The impact point of the bullet would be between 30-45 degrees from aiming point. 

2.  My buddy and I were waiting behind the firing line for the relay ahead to complete.  They were on their last bank of targets so we had our gear and were directly behind watching them shoot.  There were a couple of fellow shooters on either side of us also waiting and watching.   One of the guys shooting was on his 2-3 target when he had a funny hang fire.  We distinctly heard the hammer hit, then about a half second later the gun fired.  I dont recall exactly what he was shooting, but it was a straight wall pistol case, 357 max, 44 mag, or similar.  This was as the same range referenced above.  This shooter was shooting at 50 yard chicken line.  His bullet skipped off the dirt in front of him and landed between the 25 yard line and 50 yard line.  When the action opened, the fired brass flew out of the gun, and hit one of the guys standing next to us right in the forehead.  We got a good laugh on this one, but it could have ended differently. 

You notice in both of these occurances the bullet hits maybe half way to the target.  This means the barrel is well open when the bullet exits the bore.  If you are resting the gun across the hood of your truck plinking, you just dented the hood with the barrel and the bullet could have hit the truck.  This isn't the first time I have seen brass fly out of a contender.  I have seen several instances where the reloader had too light a charge.  Bullet is half way down the bore and when the action opens all the pressure pushes the brass backward toward the shooter.

ANY TIME a contender action opens on firing, THERE IS DANGER!!  Please believe it.

I hope you never have to experience one.

Steve  

[Dezynco]

I've had Contenders (and Encore's) fly open, but never spit an empty case at me!  Hmmmm!

[Dezynco]

I've got a couple of Rolling Block rifles, one is an original Remington, the other is a Pedersoli replica.  If the action spring in a Rolling Block is weak, or has been modified to make the trigger pull lighter, they can fly open from the rearward force of the case.  The firing pin knocks the hammer backward, thus allowing the action to come open.  Usually it is because the spring has been modified, which keeps it from holding the hammer firmly in place when it drops against the firing pin.

Some folks have tried to weaken the action spring to make the trigger pull a little lighter (to save money instead of having a trigger job done).  It very rarely happens though, and the only times that has ever happened was when someone monkied with the main spring, usually using "light loads".  It's interesting that you mentioned that one of the loads was a "light load".

Definitely something to think about!

[Elwood]

My Contender was opening on firing six or more years ago. The last time that it did this the "self ejecting" brass hit me in the head real hard. It does happen!
Thompson/Center replaced the frame and put new lugs on the barrel without charge.
Elwood