Author Topic: Why are .410 slugs so light (Read 5682 times)

Airsporter · « **on:** January 28, 2009, 06:27:00 AM »

Most shotgun gauges use conventional slugs that approximate the weight of their shot loads - at least lighter trap/skeet/field loads. But the .410, which is normally loaded with at least 1/2 ounce of shot, comes only in 1/5oz - 1/4oz slugs.

44-40 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2009, 01:15:35 PM »

I was looking at some the other day and the velocity surprised me , it was around 1750 fps if memory serves , maybe they are going for speed over bullet weight.

Airsporter · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2009, 11:41:58 PM »

I was just thinking that a 1/2 oz slug (~220gr) at 1200fps or so would put the .410 clearly in the .41 mag range.

Syncerus · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2009, 02:48:47 AM »

It's probably based on the intended target. The .410 is clearly too small for deer, so their optimizing the load for varmints and small game.

It's just a guess, but seems like a probable explanation.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2009, 01:07:14 PM »

Probably get beat up for this but... I've killed several deer with my marlin 410.

torpedoman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2009, 01:20:07 PM »

Quote from: Syncerus on January 29, 2009, 02:48:47 AM

It's probably based on the intended target. The .410 is clearly too small for deer, so their optimizing the load for varmints and small game.

It's just a guess, but seems like a probable explanation.

Really, too small for deer?dog gone it another area with them new bullet proof deer.

sk330lc · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2009, 04:16:22 PM »

The next thing they are going to tell us is . The 22lr is to small for rabbits and squirrels!

Syncerus · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2009, 02:45:39 AM »

Use what you like, as long as it's legal. To each his own.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:03:40 AM »

Got to ask , if a single buck shot will kill a deer . I have had it happen on several hunts , twice with OOO buck . And most buckshot is going around 1200 fps . How is a larger lead slug going faster clearly to small for deer ? Guess the Winchester shell with 5 000 buck shot is useless also .
Bet it won't be long before we see a .410 or 28 GA. slug gun with new ammo that will leave the old stuff in the dust . Out preform 30/30 rifle class hunting guns .

jjas · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2009, 05:07:02 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 30, 2009, 03:03:40 AM

Got to ask , if a single buck shot will kill a deer . I have had it happen on several hunts , twice with OOO buck . And most buckshot is going around 1200 fps . How is a larger lead slug going faster clearly to small for deer ? Guess the Winchester shell with 5 000 buck shot is useless also .
Bet it won't be long before we see a .410 or 28 GA. slug gun with new ammo that will leave the old stuff in the dust . Out preform 30/30 rifle class hunting guns .

I agree completely! A 28 gauge slug gun would be a great platform for saboted ammo. It would allow the use of bullets and sabots similar in size to that of a .50 caliber muzzleloader. Heck w/the bore size of a 28 gauge, you could shoot full bore slugs and not even have to bother with sabots and still be able to get a decent ballistic coefficient.

The problem(s) would be getting the dnr's to allow them and getting the ammo/gun companies interested in doing it. There was a rumor for years that Remington was working on a gun very much like this and it never happened. I guess there are too many legacy 12 and 20 gauges on the market to make it viable.

Jim

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2009, 06:16:04 AM »

someone like Savage or Ruger could step into the market in a big way . They both have a good bolt action

jjas · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2009, 09:32:51 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 30, 2009, 06:16:04 AM

someone like Savage or Ruger could step into the market in a big way . They both have a good bolt action

I don't think Savage is very interested in doing anything more w/slug guns than the 12 gauge model they have now, but I would agree that it would be interesting to see Ruger step up and try something new.

Interesting idea for sure.

Jim

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2009, 09:38:34 AM »

I have a 210 savage and its great . BUT KICKS LIKE A MULE !
Ruger has been going after new markets with the LCP and LCR . We can hope !

Kurt L · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2009, 10:17:52 AM »

Quote from: sk330lc on January 29, 2009, 04:16:22 PM

The next thing they are going to tell us is . The 22lr is to small for rabbits and squirrels!

some of them can be pretty darn hard to kill

you should at least use a 22-250 or 220 swift on them rabbits and squirrels

squirrellluck · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:42:01 PM »

seriously, I have my marlin sighted in at 100 yards. 3 shot group inside a coffee cup size bullseye. It is a blast to hunt with.Recoil about like a 22.

Mack in N.C. · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2009, 05:11:16 PM »

never shot a deer with my 410.....savage bolt action but i have seen several deer shot by freinds or their kids........all were dead........none got away either...i almost bought some of those win 000 buck 410 shells last night but when i saw the 5 of them were 12.99 i put them back!!!!!!!....mack

jrfrmn · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2009, 06:51:05 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 30, 2009, 09:38:34 AM

I have a 210 savage and its great . BUT KICKS LIKE A MULE !
Ruger has been going after new markets with the LCP and LCR . We can hope !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:30:59 AM »

noticed Savage has a 20 ga. now , saw it in a magazine . If i see it in a store might have to trade something .

Dinny · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2009, 05:07:40 PM »

Quote from: Airsporter on January 28, 2009, 06:27:00 AM

Most shotgun gauges use conventional slugs that approximate the weight of their shot loads - at least lighter trap/skeet/field loads. But the .410, which is normally loaded with at least 1/2 ounce of shot, comes only in 1/5oz - 1/4oz slugs.

Not all .410 slugs are light. Check out this site. Here's a picture of their box label.
http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com

embalmer883 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:43:42 AM »

Those heavy .410 slugs is kinda a neat concept! Not sure I would want a .410 slug specific barrel, but....

Dinny · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2009, 07:30:53 AM »

Quote from: embalmer883 on July 01, 2009, 06:43:42 AM

Those heavy .410 slugs is kinda a neat concept! Not sure I would want a .410 slug specific barrel, but....

The ammo is expensive. $58 plus shipping for 20 rounds. They can be shot out of a smoothbore as long as they can chamber. I read that they will someday soon be releasing a slug intended specifically for smoothbores that may shoot better than these. Hopefully they're cheaper too.

~Dinny

moxgrove · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2009, 07:37:00 AM »

I could definitely see getting them if they were for a smooth bore

Dinny · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2009, 07:46:11 AM »

I'll entertain the thought of 3 or 4 of us splitting a box of the current slugs. Just don't know how good of an idea that is. It would be more costly due to shipping. Not sure that it would be worth it in the end.
PM me if interested.

~Dinny

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2009, 06:33:15 AM »

I think that the main reason for the light slugs are that they are a foster style thus hollow probly because they want to use soft lead that will deform to shoot out of any choked 410 bbl safely there are other slugs out there though that if you search them out they are heavyer but maybe not as accessible to all like the light slugs are . Anyone serious enough to want and use a 410 for deer should be seeking these slugs for use. Kurt

coyotejoe · « **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2009, 05:33:37 AM »

Those .410 slugs really are not light for their bore size, rather the .410 shot loads are extremely heavy for the bore size. Most slugs and non-magnum shot loads are about the weight of a bore size round ball or even lighter. For example, a 20 gauge ball would weigh about 357 grains or 8/10 of an ounce. A 12 gauge ball would weigh about 555 grains or 1 1/4 ounce. A .41 caliber ball would weigh about 100 grains or just under 1/4 ounce, so the 1/5 to 1/4 ounce .410 slugs are right in the ball park. Remember that a smoothbore cannot stabilize a long, heavy bullet like a .41 caliber pistol bullet even though they do fire a very long and heavy load of shot, albeit with rather poor patterns.

Ridgeviewer · « **Reply #25 on:** September 18, 2009, 10:05:11 AM »

Dinny, I have one of the Hoening Big Bore South rifled .410 barrels for my encore, and have shot quite a few groups with the .375 gr slugs you posted about.
The very worst group I have shot was 1.5" and my typical group is 1" to 1-1/8" at 100 yards. Quite frequently I'll have 2 touching and the third shot opens me to an 1".
You should hear those things when they hit the backstop.... I'm talkin "WITH AUTHORITY!"
Ed and James Hoening know their stuff and are great guys to deal with.
Do keep in mind, the slug is designed for the rifled barrel and is .416 dia.
If you have any other questions, just ask or PM me.
Take good care,
Ridge

Dinny · « **Reply #26 on:** September 18, 2009, 11:01:59 AM »

Ridgeviewer,
Thanks for the info. It's always better when someone else pays for the experimenting.

Seriously though, I am interested to see if HBBS releases slugs that can be used in the H&R .45/.410 barrel. Also, I wonder about the legalities of even that barrel in the shotgun-only deer hunting states. It may well depend on the CO who is looking over your gun to see if it is legal caliber for that state. Ideally, I would want a barrel that is stamped with the words,".410ga ONLY" just to be safe. On that same subject I even wonder about the legalities of using brass that's not stamped with the exact phrase ".410ga" It's sad that we have to worry about these things, but as always, a few ruin it for many.

Thanks, Dinny

Ridgeviewer · « **Reply #27 on:** September 18, 2009, 06:26:42 PM »

Dinny
Like you, I wanted to make sure of a few things before I made my purchase also. The Barrel is indeed marked .410 ga only, and is chambered exactly as such. A 2-1/2 " chamber BTW. I do load brass hulls for mine as well and the brass is labled .410. Which again, is exactly to the .410 shotshell dimension.
In my state .410 ga is legal for deer, and rifled slug barrels are also.
My biggest advantage is the extreme accuracy that I get from my Hoening Big Bore. I also get a chuckle at the expression on my range buddies faces when they see what this little .410 will do against their slug guns and high end muzzloaders. (including the 5 or 6 that I own)
One last point I'll make,,, even the fastest load I have used in my brass hulls at the range can be easily surpassed by just about any of my inline muzzleloaders. All of which are perfectly legal in my state.
Take care,
Ridge

danny pay · « **Reply #28 on:** August 27, 2010, 11:12:00 AM »

slugs are intended for short range hunting often not more than 50 yards maybe max 75 yards or so. a 410 gauge loaded with slugs of same weight as hunting pistol rounds (like 158 grain in 357 or 170 grain in 40 caliber)loaded at same velocity level will surely kill a deer at short range and very useful for the youth due to light recoil in only shotgun areas.
i am disapointed by ammomakers and the weight of slugs on the market . a 410 slug at 150 grain + will make a very nice short range deer gun. remember that 44 rimfire and 44-40 were used to put down all kind of games in old good days!!

jedman · « **Reply #29 on:** August 29, 2010, 02:01:38 PM »

I live in Ohio, here it is legal to use a 410 for deer hunting. I checked with ODNR about legal issues of a special rifled 410 barrel shooting heavy cast or jacketed bullets and what I found out was ,
You cannot use a all metal shell case, such as a all brass casing,
The bullet can protrude from the front of the shell casing ,
the said gun must chamber and fire 410 shotshells, Thats here in Ohio.
Just to play with this a little , I am making a rifled 44 cal. barrel that I am chambering to take a 2 1/2" plastic shell with a 44 cal. bullet loaded uncrimped to try and get a accurate shooting "410 slug gun " that will have the power of a 44 magnum or better from a Mossberg M 500 410 pump shotgun.
I should have this up and shooting within a couple of weeks. I will post pics and range reports as soon as I get it working.

Jed