Author Topic: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan  (Read 1064 times)

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Offline WylieKy

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"Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« on: January 29, 2009, 07:26:54 AM »
WASHINGTON (AFP) – A new "Buy American" push in President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan is sparking protests about protectionism from US trading partners.

Passage of the 819 billion dollar economic stimulus package Wednesday by the US House of Representatives raised hackles in Europe and Canada, the United States's biggest trading partner.

Obama has pushed for swift passage of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act as vital to prevent the collapse of the US economy, reeling from the global financial crisis that has thwarted governments' unprecedented actions to ease the turmoil.

The legislation's package of tax cuts and spending has moved to the Senate, where lawmakers are working on their own version of the plan.

The bulk of the bill's spending is aimed at bringing aging infrastructure into the 21st century to preserve and improve the country's long-term competitiveness in the global economy, creating millions of jobs in the process.

The sweep of projects is broad, from roads, rail, bridges, airports and dams to military construction and housing, among others.

The House-approved plan's "Buy American" provision generally prohibits the purchase of foreign iron and steel for any infrastructure project in the bill.

The European Union's trade commissioner, Catherine Ashton, pre-emptively voiced concern about the US measure.

"We are looking into the situation. ... Before we have the final text ... it would be premature to take a stance on it," Ashton's spokesman, Peter Power, said in Brussels.

"However, the one thing we can be absolutely certain about, is if a bill is passed which prohibits the sale or purchase of European goods on American territory, that is something we will not stand idly by and ignore," he said.

Canada's government said it is concerned about US protectionism in the economic stimulus and its diplomats were lobbying US makers against the "Buy American" drive.

"We're always concerned when there are protectionist pressures in the United States," Industry Minister Tony Clement told public broadcaster CBC.

"At the same time the United States has treaty obligations," he said, citing US membership in the World Trade Organization and the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

"And we expect the United States to live up to its treaty obligations of open and fair trade."

About 40 percent of Canadian steel is sold in the United States and Canada imports steel from its southern neighbor.

Clement said Canadian diplomats have been lobbying US lawmakers "to try to persuade them to take that clause out or soften it or at least not make it any tougher in the days ahead."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper also plans to bring up the controversial clause in talks with Obama when he visits Ottawa on February 19, he said.

The "Buy American" provision bars spending on any infrastructure project "unless all of the iron and steel used in the project is produced in the United States."

There would be exceptions if the head of the federal department or agency determines that applying the provision "would be inconsistent with the public interest."

Other exceptions would be made if there was an insufficient quantity of US iron and steel of satisfactory quality available and if inclusion of US iron and steel would raise the overall project's cost by more than 25 percent.

Italian Trade Minister Adolfo Urso warned Monday as the US legislation was being developed: "A dangerous new steel war is looming and we need to counter it with strong and decisive actions."

A European familiar with an EU trade commissioner dinner held the same day said that "one or two delegations signaled that the US recovery package contains seeds of a new steel dispute."

Obama, who criticized international trade agreements, including NAFTA, in his presidential campaign, has wasted no time in taking a tough stance on the trade front since taking office on January 20.

The next day, the Obama administration branded China a currency manipulator, setting the stage for a trade war with the Asian giant which has overtaken Japan as America's biggest foreign creditor.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090129/pl_afp/uspoliticstradedispute_20090129173404



What do you all think?
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Offline myronman3

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 09:06:26 AM »
i think it is about freakin' time somebody did something.   

Offline Troyboy

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 09:59:20 AM »
Buy American stay American. Nafta is a bain to the american worker. Jobs just sucked out of this country.Now is the time for Americans to invest in America.
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Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 11:08:52 AM »
What a novel idea, spending American money on American-made products!  Now can some of the large corporations start thinking the same way? 

Offline mirage1988

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2009, 11:45:29 AM »
Wonder how that would affect our exports? Didn't see anything in that article about that.

Offline myronman3

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 05:31:41 AM »
everyone knows that the us is a huge cash cow and they all want their piece.   if we got back to being able to support ourselves at home with minimal exporting, the rest of the world can take a hike.  our econonmy is the biggest weapon we have. 
     let the arabs charge all they want for oil; we should charge them double the price of oil for a bushel of grain.  if they dont like it, let them eat ukrainian grain (chernobyl polluted), or perhaps they could talk china out of some of their rice?  with as many mouths as they have to feed, that wont fly very far either.   
   
   now to really upset some of you here...no, i didnt vote for him.   but i will say that so far so good.  when you remove emotional responses and partisanship from the equation and look at it objectively, not too bad so far.   i remain skeptical but hopeful.   i still dont trust the guy, but it does seem like he has a few good ideas and even if you hate him, you have to admit he isnt wasting time getting to it.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2009, 06:14:48 AM »
I read that 45% of everything China makes is exported to the US, but it is only 10% of our total spending.  We could cut off trade with them and they would fold.  50% of our total imported goods is oil.  If we could drill and make our own synthetic fuel from coal that would cut half our imports and put Americans to work.  Not taxing the textile and shoe industry with federal income tax on corporations, and taxing imports would bring back these jobs for unskilled labor especially.  However about half of Obamas plan is pork, money for ACORN, arts, etc, that will not create real jobs. 

Offline WylieKy

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2009, 06:40:01 AM »
   now to really upset some of you here...no, i didnt vote for him.   but i will say that so far so good.  when you remove emotional responses and partisanship from the equation and look at it objectively, not too bad so far.   i remain skeptical but hopeful.   i still dont trust the guy, but it does seem like he has a few good ideas and even if you hate him, you have to admit he isnt wasting time getting to it.

Ditto.  I am not a Bush Basher and definitely not an Obama Supporter, but  I hope and pray that Obama does right by the US.  If he can fix the economy AND leave our guns alone I WILL TURN INTO AN OBAMA SUPPORTER.  You heard it hear first. Honestly though, the chances of that happening are almost zilch. Furthermore, I think ALL of the government is irrevocably corrupt and the Dems and Rep's in DC are really one big happy family.  I think professional politicians in our age are the biggest Welfare project of all.
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Offline myronman3

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2009, 06:50:53 AM »
o/t, but didnt we do some trading a few years back?  seems to me we did, but for the life of me i cant remember what.    ???

Offline FLNT4EVR

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2009, 03:39:53 AM »
If you want to sell it here, you should make it here.  NOT in Mexico, Sirae Lanka, China, or some other godforsaken place. Right here in the USA. the stupid trade agreements and NAFTA agreements literaly distroyed manufacturing in the US.
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Offline Heather

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2009, 04:46:32 AM »
Wow what a novel concept!  Who would have ever thought that America buying and investing in America could help America's economy!  Wonder how many geniuses it took to come up with that plan? It will probably never pass, but it is a good idea even if it did come from team Obama.

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Offline epanzella

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2009, 05:23:03 AM »
Wonder how that would affect our exports? Didn't see anything in that article about that.
WHAT EXPORTS?
In 2007 we had a negative trade balance of $700,258,000,000. That's almost 3/4 of a trillion dollars! Just to put this in perspective, the entire amount of currency in circulation at any given time in the whole country is between one and two trillion dollars. The last time we had a positive trade balance was 1975!!! American wealth and businesses are flying out of this country like air out of a busted balloon.
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2009, 06:27:42 AM »
I went to the local Farm&Fleet store to buy some blue jeans made in the USA. I looked at EVERY brand name. None were make in America. :(  I will keep trying to buy American.

Cheese
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Offline .308 Win.

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2009, 06:29:42 AM »
Like everyone else, I think we should invest in ourselves because no one else seems to be.  People from other nations, be they from the E.U. or Asia don't live here so obviously they don't have our interests at heart.  

There are others who know considerably more than I do about international economics but from a commonsense perspective, it appears we could come up with a biodiversified fuel source and that puts the farmer back to work.  We feed ourselves and if they play fairly, the rest of the world and from that our farmers, again, are back to work.  If we buy our own cars, we buy our own steel, iron, etc., we keep those industries in motion and to keep the engines turning.  We need to do away with NAFTA and put incentives into place to lure business back here.  Look at Ireland, for example.  Their business tax was astronomical so businesses left.  They lowered the tax to a reasonable amount and guess what, now businesses are coming back more than ever.  You have to make the atmosphere attractive so that businesses can earn an acceptable profit or they leave.  Pretty simple.

Really, all of this isn't rocket science.  All it is is investment in ourselves, not unlike an overweight person who changes his/her lifestyle for the good of their own health.  That is an investment on an individual level.  We should invest in ourselves on a national level and in so doing, try to stay away from Wal-Mart.  Try getting a basket full of articles from there that don't come from some foreign country, most notably China.  They've run all the small places out of business, too.  Isn't there a law concerning monopoly?  Didn't they do this with Ma Bell and earlier on with Standard Oil?l  

As far as politics, NO, I didn't vote for Obama because of his record on gun control.  I remain extremely cautious about him but so far he hasn't done anything I know of to try to change our gun laws.  In the meantime, he appears to be taking good and solid measures for the good of this nation.  Who gives a damn if the E.U. or China gets pissed off?  Just as they aren't concerned about us, they are not MY concern, either.  Really, it's dog eat dog and we need to grow some nuts and some pretty big fangs as well.                

Offline alsaqr

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2009, 01:41:40 PM »
I can remember when nearly everything we consumed was produced in this country.  Tens of millions of US citizens are too young to remember when the US was self sufficient and are not taught in school.   During WWII millions of US troops fought to keep this country and its way of life free.  Then the political pukes in DC gave it all away. 

The reason US troops did not get the the mine resistant vehicle (MRAP) years sooner is because no company in the US was initially capable of making the thing.  How in hades are we going to supply the troops when the big war comes? 

Offline grumpyErik

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2009, 09:44:00 PM »
I can remember when nearly everything we consumed was produced in this country.  Tens of millions of US citizens are too young to remember when the US was self sufficient and are not taught in school.   During WWII millions of US troops fought to keep this country and its way of life free.  Then the political pukes in DC gave it all away. 

The reason US troops did not get the the mine resistant vehicle (MRAP) years sooner is because no company in the US was initially capable of making the thing.  How in hades are we going to supply the troops when the big war comes? 

I have been thinking the same thing as you for years. During WW2 it took a while to ramp up production levels to meet demand. At that time we made almost everything here. How long would it take nowadays? We would be in deep doo-doo if we had to act quickly. And you are right when you say "When the big war comes", because it will come.

The USA being able to supply itself IS a matter of homeland security.
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Offline epanzella

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 04:49:24 AM »
I can remember when nearly everything we consumed was produced in this country.  Tens of millions of US citizens are too young to remember when the US was self sufficient and are not taught in school.   During WWII millions of US troops fought to keep this country and its way of life free.  Then the political pukes in DC gave it all away. 

The reason US troops did not get the the mine resistant vehicle (MRAP) years sooner is because no company in the US was initially capable of making the thing.  How in hades are we going to supply the troops when the big war comes? 

I have been thinking the same thing as you for years. During WW2 it took a while to ramp up production levels to meet demand. At that time we made almost everything here. How long would it take nowadays? We would be in deep doo-doo if we had to act quickly. And you are right when you say "When the big war comes", because it will come.

The USA being able to supply itself IS a matter of homeland security.
What people don't think about is that when you buy an American product, that money gets doled out to other Americans in the form of pay, insurance, fuel, ect. They, in turn, circulate the money to other Americans and eventually you or the company you work for will see some of that money. When you buy something imported, that money leaves the country and is out of circulation forever, unless it comes back as an import, an unlikely outcome with a 3/4 trillion dollar negative trade balance. This trend has taken a long time to develop and with American companies drying up it is becoming more dificult if not impossible to reverse the trend. Our country is on the line and the new president, although a great public speaker, doesn't have the power to save us from ourselves. This stimulus package is nothing but a shell game with a printing press under every shell. His "buy American" position is the only part of the package that has any real merit but it won't work if nobody listens.   

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 09:26:24 AM »
epanzella, you are absolutely correct.  In economics, if you spend a dollar, it circles 7 times before it comes back to you.  If we buy foreign oil, it puts money into the drillers and pipefitters in a foreign country.  The don't have to buy an American car or any other American made good.  That dollar circulates somewhere else.  If you buy an American product it puts 7 other Americans to work before it comes back to you.  In 1960 we produced everything we needed in this country with very few imports, TV's, radios, cars, clothes, shoes, and food.  The only thing we imported was tea, coffee, bananas, and Brazil nuts.  45% of the workers in American were in manufacturing of these products, 6% in full time farming, and the rest in the service industries.  Today probably only 10-15% of the jobs are in manufacturing.  We have another 20% in government which doesn't PRODUCE anything, just shuffles money around.  This is crazy.  Where I come from you could raise a family working in a textile mill, which required very little skill.  We need these back to provide jobs for the poor.  At least they would have some insurance and a paycheck.  Shoes are the same. 

Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2009, 02:02:22 PM »
Right on Dixie Dude.  There were manufacturing jobs that didn't pay much, but the money kept circulating inside America.  We need to start producing goods inside our country again.  I heard the president of Revere Copper and Brass give a talk on the disadvantage we have in the world market due to a lack of a added value tax like the rest of the world has and the artificial devaluing of Chinese money.  If we were to level the playing field the market would sort itself out after a while.  Maybe not exports = imports, but close.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2009, 02:14:00 PM »
this  is nothing  new

back  in the 80s  qnd 90s

i worked  on  many military bases

we  had to prove any material going  into the building had to be made in america
navy  inspectors  on  the job  EVERY day  and that was one thing they looked for

they  were some exceptions  ....but  not worth the paperwork

to say  this is new  is just a distraction....though  they  may be expanding  this

any time they want to spend  money  their power grows and you loose
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: "Buy American" Stimulus Plan
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2009, 02:26:00 PM »
Guess we wont be buying anything ALL cars, trucks, motorcycles and most everything that is ASSEMBLED in america is made with parts from canada, mexico and china.
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