Author Topic: 1948 336 30-30 (Read 2801 times)

daf290 · « **on:** January 29, 2009, 03:42:41 PM »

I think I know the answer to this question but I need to ask anyway. I would like to use this rifle deer hunting but had a friend with a similar rifle that shot several deer only to watch them run off into the woods. Some we recovered, some we spent many hours tracking never to recover. I finally demanded that my friend trade his newer model 336 for a bolt action 30-06. He has shot three deer with the 30-06 all planted in their tracks or nearly so.

I am a reloader and attempted to make killer handloads for his .30-30 before giving up. Whatever handloads I made were either still too weak or too stout to cycle properly.

Since all this, I inherited an as new 336 30-30 made in 1948 from my now deceased father. I would love to hunt with it but cannot bring myself to with the history of my hunting buddy. I know that I could easily go the AE route but don't believe that 200 fps is worth the effort.

Can I convert this to the new .308 that Marlin offers with the proper chamber reamer?

What other options do I realistically have?

When I say that I likely know the answer, I believe that the answer will be that I should not mess with the rifle but enjoy it as is. I am OK with this but cannot see me using it as a deer rifle. Even though many others have used a 30-30 successfully, I have other rifles that work much better than a 30-30. Maybe I can convert it to a squirrel rifle.

What are your thoughts?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:42:35 PM »

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the .30-30 as a deer hunting round. Any inadequacy was in the shooter not the gun or the round. If you put a .30-30 bullet where it belongs a dead deer results. I dare say it has killed far more than even the old '06.

Old Grizz · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2009, 12:55:03 AM »

Yea, I agree with Greybeard, the 30-30 has probably taken more deer than any other caliber. I have used a 30-30 for deer for close to 45 years with never loosing a deer. I would't hesitate using your dads 30-30 for deer, I occasionally still use my dads old 30-30.

bilmac · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2009, 01:27:11 AM »

Daf I'm not a collector so I don't know a lot about models ect., but are you sure your rifle is a 336 and not a 36? My Dad's Marlin was built in the 30's and is a Modle 36. It has a square bolt instead of round, and beautiful casehardening.

I have made loads for the various 30-30's I've owned that would work pretty good for squirrel hunting. Some with the 120 gr Lee cast bullet that duplicate a 22LR pretty closely. I have been playing around lately with Lyman's 311291 bullet that weighs in at about 170 grains. Getting some nice groups at 100 yds shooting them at something like 1700 to 1900 fps. I bet that will have a very nice flat trajectory inside 100 yds. Pleasant to shoot and would probably be a good squirrel killer without destroying them. You could duplicate these loads with jacketed bullets if you don't cast.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2009, 01:27:37 AM »

"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."

Calvin Rutstrum

Calvin whacked a lot of bear & moose with the .30-30. Nobody told him it wouldn't work. The 170 grain Core-Lokt or the new Hornady stuff will kill most anything we normally hunt. Shoot through the front shoulders, and they won't run anywhere. Lung/Heart shots are for archery equipment.

jlchucker · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2009, 02:58:24 AM »

Swampman, Graybeard, and Old Griz are right. If the 30-30 were no good for deer, then why have untold millions been killed via the use of this caliber--either with 150 or 170 gr bullets, 165's in the old days, and even cast bullets? For a lot of woods hunters (and I mean hunters--not shortmag addicts or Guns & Ammo readers) it's still their first choice. While there's nothing wrong with a 30-06, 270, 308, etc, there's also, at least in my mind, nothing like a day-long hunt, alone and on foot, in November, carrying your 30-30 levergun, stopping every now and then to sit along a runway to watch and wait. Somehow carrying much of anything besides a Winchester or Marlin levergun on a day like that, rain or shine, just doesn't feel the same. That time spent is somehow, at least to me, more enjoyable when carrying a levergun. Should you get a shot at your buck, a well-placed 30-30 slug will do the job now, like it has been doing since 1895.

Try spending some time at the range in the spring, summer, and early fall with your 30-30. You might even try it with cast bullets. It's no real trick, if you've shot your 30-30 enough, to bust clay pigeon fragments solidly at 100-125 yds once you're familiar with your 30-30. A little of that kind of shooting should solve any shot placement problems.

Skunk · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:33:38 AM »

I agree with the others. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 30-30 for deer hunting. I'm thinking your buddy needs a little more practice. Use the 30-30 for a "squirrel gun" instead of a deer gun? Now that is funny.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2009, 06:24:12 AM »

The old reliable .30-.30 has taken millions of game animals and has proven itself without question. Now if the shooter can not hit the kill zone of the animal or he shoots the game animal to far from the muzzle it will result in lost and wounded game.

No doubt the 30.06 is better at any range within reason, that does not mean the .30-.30 will not work.

You can use that logic to say that a .338 is a better killer than the 06, yep its true, but is it really needed at the ranges you shoot.

I have used the .30-30 and seen it used on Black Bear, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, and Elk. Each and every time it worked killing all but one Elk with one shot.
That Elk needed two rounds and that was my fault for shooting at a quartering angle at about 160 yards. I asked just a little much of the cartridge. When I put the second round behind the shoulder at 175 yards the Elk dropped not to move again.

(Just for info that was in the Colorado High Country where most others were shooting magnums and I killed the first Elk)

So practice with your rifle and when I say practice that does not mean a box of shells four days before opening day. Shoot year round and learn your gun at all resonable distances and all angles. If you do you will bring home many more animals than your buddies that never shoot their guns except right before the seasons open.

A lot of the BS about the .30-.30 comes from the development of all the new calibers, all excellent in most cases, and the need to belittle the .30-.30 in order to justify the boys in East Texas and the woods of Maine that they just have to have it.

As you become informed as a shooter and hunter most like me have reverted right back to guns like the .30-.30, .45-.70, .270, and the .30-06. There is a reason that they have survived all these years.

Simply THEY WORK!

daf290 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:14:03 AM »

There are adequate guns and inadequate guns for their intended purpose. In today's world, the 30-30 just don't cut it. The last deer shot by my friends 30-30 was a perfect shot thru the heart, since there was a hillside behind the deer and snow, I was able to recover the bullet that completely penetrated the deer, it was mushroomed perfectly and intact. The deer ran 75 yards taken down with another hunters .270. Fortunately, the other hunter was part of our group and the deer was ours but I have hunted in situations where if a deer runs off, the shot that brings it down takes it home.
The three deer taken since then with my friends 30-06 loaded with 220gr handloads I made for him, only one moved after being hit. The one that moved was knocked down, got up and ran in a five ft circle and dropped dead. That is what a deer rifle needs to do.

I think my best bet is to take Bilmac's suggestion and make squirrel loads for it. I would enjoy that.

Old Grizz · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2009, 12:00:31 PM »

Wow!!!
shot through the heart and still ran 75 yards. Man, what do ya feed those deer?

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2009, 12:45:47 PM »

Well Golly Gee Whiz what do you think a deer shot thru the heart is supposed to do?

They are supposed to run 75-100 yards and fall over dead. Every one I've ever shot there have no matter what I shot them with. That's the way life is. If you want bang flop DRT then hit the central nervous system. If you don't hit CNS then expect most will run a short way and then fall over dead. That's just the way these critters are. They are not humans and don't realize they are supposed to just lay down and die when shot.

If you fail to hit CNS and it is stiill a DRT consider yourself fortunate but don't expect to see it regularly.

Keith L · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2009, 12:50:20 PM »

Even humans sometimes find the where withall to not fall over dead right away. Only on TV or in the movies.

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2009, 01:12:09 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on January 30, 2009, 12:45:47 PM

Well Golly Gee Whiz what do you think a deer shot thru the heart is supposed to do?

They are supposed to run 75-100 yards and fall over dead. Every one I've ever shot there have no matter what I shot them with.

Yep! That's why I try to break them down. No front running gear, means no running.

bilmac · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2009, 02:57:38 PM »

Don't get me wrong, I think the 30-30 is a pretty good deer gun. But Daf said he didn't want to use a 30-30, he has a better gun. Maybe he lives where you mostly get 300 yard shots and one or two shots for the season is all you are going to get.

Keith L · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:21:42 PM »

And the myth of the cast iron deer continues...

jlchucker · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2009, 04:18:16 AM »

Didn't we have a poster about a year ago, from Kalifornia, who said that the 30-30 wasn't gun enough for Kalifornia cast-iron deer? As I recall, a plethora of pics of plenty of game bigger than whitetails that were shot with 30-30's, all around the world (including Africa) were submitted by way of response. The myth of the cast-iron deer continues.

Keith L · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:38:14 AM »

I hope the Wisconsin deer never learn that my 30-30 isn't gun enough.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2009, 08:38:18 AM »

I was not goping to kick you but... I have never used a 30-30 to kill a deer, took a 30-30 this year and passed due to low deer numbers. So I am not an expert on the 30-30. I have however shot several with a 7x57 and it saddens me to admit lost one the first year out. I am a firm believer of they will run if shot in the pump station vs taking out shoulders. Shoot them let them run, 75 yards is the long run with no heart and there will be a thru and thru shot and pleanty of blood. Most of mine croak in 25 yards and usually less. I am wondering if these bullet resistent deer are being shot from flushed situation. I think most will agree a deer on adrinaline will run a long way even with a good hit where a relaxed deer tends to run a short distance and pile up. The comment on he maybe shooting long range and thats why he wants a flatter shooter, than heck say that up front rather than poke a bunch of 30-30 lovers. The 30-30 would make put much more energy on a deer than my 10" barrel 7mm tcu and if you shoot a deer in the pump station they run a short distance and croak, period... I am guessing one of two cases deer shot too far back, ie no pump station hit but maybe clipping the back of the lungs or flushed shots with poor shot placement. Either case its the indian not the arrow, no offense to any native americans intended. SN

Skunk · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2009, 08:45:05 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on February 01, 2009, 08:38:14 AM

I hope the Wisconsin deer never learn that my 30-30 isn't gun enough.

Good one Keith. So far the Wisconsin deer seem to be uneducated about what should kill them; they still to be falling at the hands of many 30-30 users.

Dillohide · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:05:06 AM »

I've got a first production year 336 30-30 which I believe was 1948. It fooled me into thinking it was a Model 36 at first because it has a 24" barrel with Mod 36 stamped on it. However further research, the round bolt and the serial number under the lever indicated it was a 336 with a Model 1936 barrel. When Marlin switched to the new model they used any leftover new 1936 stamped barrels on the 336. It's a good deer rifle. If you use the Hornady pointed ammo in it, the first one may stick in the tube spring on the older rifles. My work around is to load a standard round nose bullet first then the Levereloution ammo. It's very accurate with that ammo. I certainly wouldn't mess with it. If it's in good working condition leave it original.

jlchucker · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2009, 05:34:00 AM »

Dillohide, that round nose ammo you refer to wouldn't be the Remington coreloct, would it? Those in 30-30 and 35 Remington have been killing deer pretty dead way long before they grew cast-iron hides so thick that they can't be harmed except by a whizbang shortymag superpooper caliber. And those bullets still work plenty good in places like here in Vermont, in Keith L's Wisconsin, as well as in lots of other places in the US, Canada, and abroad. Must be in those places nobody told the deer about their own evolution into armored skins.

Dillohide · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:32:33 AM »

Yes it likes the Remington Coreloct, the Winchester Power Point and the Federal version. That rifle works well here in Texas too. Like any other caliber it's all up to the operator, the rifle and bullet does what it does.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2009, 11:55:51 AM »

The last cast iron deer I shot with my wimpy .30-30 made it almost 40 yards before it gave up. Good thing it was a ignorant deer and didn't know it was supposed to get away.

The shot was thru the boiler room at about 30 yards got both lungs but just missed the heart, 170 gr corelocts, Don't need them pointy things at 30 yards.

BTW I don't like to shoot up the shoulders I eat that part and I've never faided to recover a deer hit int the boiler room.

brianscott12 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:51:18 PM »

My 30 30 seems to work just fine on Alabama deer, killed more with it than any other of my guns.

mangulator · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2009, 04:27:32 AM »

Holy cow! I hope the mule deer in Utah does not find out that a 30-30 can't kill em. I have shot several with the 30-30 and seen several elk and antelope drop to the round but please do not let the animals here in Utah and Wyoming know that its not enough gun. I hate educating the animal population

filmokentucky · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:45:50 PM »

Quote from: daf290 on January 30, 2009, 11:14:03 AM

There are adequate guns and inadequate guns for their intended purpose. In today's world, the 30-30 just don't cut it. The last deer shot by my friends 30-30 was a perfect shot thru the heart, since there was a hillside behind the deer and snow, I was able to recover the bullet that completely penetrated the deer, it was mushroomed perfectly and intact. The deer ran 75 yards taken down with another hunters .270. Fortunately, the other hunter was part of our group and the deer was ours but I have hunted in situations where if a deer runs off, the shot that brings it down takes it home.
The three deer taken since then with my friends 30-06 loaded with 220gr handloads I made for him, only one moved after being hit. The one that moved was knocked down, got up and ran in a five ft circle and dropped dead. That is what a deer rifle needs to do.

I think my best bet is to take Bilmac's suggestion and make squirrel loads for it. I would enjoy that.

I don't understand how a rifle and cartridge that worked so well for so long for so many "just don't cut it" in today's world. You say the bullet performed perfectly but the deer ran 75 yards before being shot by another hunter. As has been pointed out, this is pretty much the norm for a deer that takes a heart shot. There's nothing wrong with the cartridge or the fine little carbines that use them. If you feel you have to stop the deer right in it's tracks, you will have to break some bones too. And it's a good idea to stalk in close--that's why it's called hunting and not shooting.

As for using the .30-30 as a squirrel rifle and a handload of a 170 grain bullet at 1700 to 1900 f.p.s., I think someone's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he suggested this as a small game load--unless your idea of a fine squirrel dinner is licking fragments of meat and hair off of tree bark. By the way, that bullet at 1900 f.p.s. is a pretty good whitetail load, provided you're in the same time zone as the deer when you make the shot.

brianscott12 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2009, 03:44:04 PM »

Well put!

Old Grizz · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:57:13 PM »

Quote from: brianscott12 on February 23, 2009, 03:44:04 PM

Well put!

Very well put.

bilmac · « **Reply #28 on:** February 24, 2009, 01:04:01 AM »

Kaintuk You forget the intent of the original post. Daf has decided that the 30-30 is not a deer rifle, There have been lots of posts here that disagree, I disagree also, but he also brought up the thought of using it as a squirrel gun. He has recieved almost no help, only argument. I have made and used 22 power level reduced loads in a Savage 24V. Put a scope on a Marlin and it will work very well for plinking squirrels with the 120 grain bullet.

I don't think the 311291 bullet will splatter squirrels if it is cast halfway hard. The problem with using these loads on deer is getting some expansion out of a bullet hard enough that it doesn't lead your gun. It would have a little more reach than the 120 grain load, but I would probably not use it for squirrel hunting because it would carry a lot of energy for a long ways which would always worry me if not shooting into a good backstop.

filmokentucky · « **Reply #29 on:** February 24, 2009, 08:30:24 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on February 24, 2009, 01:04:01 AM

Kaintuk You forget the intent of the original post. Daf has decided that the 30-30 is not a deer rifle, There have been lots of posts here that disagree, I disagree also, but he also brought up the thought of using it as a squirrel gun. He has recieved almost no help, only argument. I have made and used 22 power level reduced loads in a Savage 24V. Put a scope on a Marlin and it will work very well for plinking squirrels with the 120 grain bullet.

I don't think the 311291 bullet will splatter squirrels if it is cast halfway hard. The problem with using these loads on deer is getting some expansion out of a bullet hard enough that it doesn't lead your gun. It would have a little more reach than the 120 grain load, but I would probably not use it for squirrel hunting because it would carry a lot of energy for a long ways which would always worry me if not shooting into a good backstop.

First he decides that the .30-30 lever action rifle isn't a deer gun despite tons of empirical proof to the contrary. Then he wants to make a squirrel rifle out of it. In a later post he states that the .30-30 can't get the job done in today's world--as if there has been a shift in the laws of physics and the cartridge has lost its power. He wants to turn it into a squirrel gun when a better answer would be to buy a .22 rifle. And sell the suddenly ineffective .30-30 to a hunter who will have no problem making it work in this day and age. The .30-30 is hardly a sensible choice for a squirrel gun when so many better ones are available. He says at one point that adding 200 f.p.s. to a cartridge isn't worth the effort. I think a lot of folks would disagree with that statement too!