Has the Military picked a sidearm yet?

[SharonAnne]

oh I think an 870 would do nicely.

[Old Griz]

The M14 is heavier, clumsier, louder, has much worse recoil and prevents the soldier from carrying as much ammo.  Hardly a superior weapon.

Based on this logic, a Ruger 10/22 is a superior weapon?

The M14 will reach out and touch someone, whereas the M16 will only tickle. 

[williamlayton]

The problems the troops had with the M14 was in the automatic mode.
Like the BAR that it was designed to replace, in the auto mode, after the first 4 rounds, it became inaccurate. Accuracy at ranges was the best arguement for the .06, but if it became uncontrollable the advantages dissapated.
The M16 was/is accurate at acceptable ranges even on the auto mode---which is now only three rounds per trigger pull.
At ranges of more that three hundred yards you are correct about the M14--but not in the auto mode.
Now, we are talking about average GI not the far ends of the spectrum.
Blessings

[Bob Riebe]

I think your going to see them stick with the beretta for a good long time. two reasons. First with the finatial state were in theres probably not money to switch and secondly and probably the biggest reason is our miltary has changed in recent years. they are much more specialized and even infintry divisions have many specialized soldiers. You see special forces like the seals rangers recon ect using specialized weapons and going back to 1911s and just about every other handgun out there. they use what the misson dictates. they are not strapped by the weapon choises most have. Even if the military did decide to switch weapons im sorry to say but the 1911 wouldnt even be a consideration. Cocked and locked and short single actions pulls arent whats wanted in the heat of a battle with a bunch of scared inexperienced soldiers. the 1911 is a great fighting weapon but it is a weapon for an experienced trained man. The military just doesnt have the time to train there men to that extent with a weapon that is only a secondary weapon and only a secondary weapon for some.

I used to get a weekly gun rag and the M1911 was considered but low mag. capacity did not totally eliminate it but put others at the forefront, when the new sidearm consideration first came about.

[Joshua M. Smith]

Some thoughts:

We are not bound by the Hague Accords as we never signed into them.  If we wanted to use HP ammo, we could.  In fact, we do have 147gn HP in inventory, though I'm not clear as to what its use is.  The original 147gn rounds were not designed to expand, but were rather made in the HP style due to superior accuracy, and the weight was chosen for its subsonic characteristics which were desirable in suppressed guns.

The Marine Expeditionary Unit still uses the 1911 in modified form.  I build one similar to it, and am impressed.  The internals are about the same; I did do some cosmetic stuff to it so as to fit it to my hand better.  This one is a prototype; the next one will be a more faithful repro and cleaner, now that I know what I want.

Berryhill makes an exact duplicate, and these are the specs from his page:

MEU(SOC) NEW VERSION SPECS:
- Caliber: .45 Auto
- Cylinder & Slide Tactical hammer, sear and disconnector
- 3-hole aluminum Videcki-style trigger and a 4 to 4 1/2 lb. trigger job
- Bar Sto stainless steel match barrel and bushing with bushing fit finger tight
- Novak black low-mount rear and dovetail/pinned black front sight
- Ed Brown ambi thumb safety
- Ed Brown Memory Groove grip safety
- Lowered and flared ejection port
- Front cocking serrations
- Flat serrated steel mainspring housing with military style lanyard loop
- Beveled mag well
- Bar stock extractor and oversize firing pin stop
- Pachmayr black rubber wrap-around grips
- 2 Wilson 7-round magazines
- Tested and tuned for complete reliability with 230 grain FMJ ammo
- Mild dehorn keeping the gun’s lines intact
- Wolff springs including an 18 lb. recoil spring
- Slide, barrel hood, grip safety, mainspring housing and both safety levers stamped with the last 4 digits of the frame’s serial number
- Blackened parkerizing (manganese phosphate) with blackened stainless steel parts.

What they look like:


New and old styles...


My version...


15 shots on each target.  This is when I was regulating the sights with 230gn ball ammo.

As you may be able to tell, the pistol sits so low in the hand that I had to relieve the thumb safety a bit.

It occurs to me that a similar build on a Caspian high-cap frame (or similar) would be pretty close to what they're looking for.  I am not a fan of the Para-Ordnance LDA, but I do figure that if it holds up, then perhaps it could be used, as well.

Josh <><

[1marty]

my squad leader carried a 45 ; he never fired it in combat situations. Sidearms were sort of useless. I loved my m79.

[williamlayton]

If one looks at the situation with the mind of economy, the 9 was the choice.
It took a lot of money to discard the the .45 and would take a lot more money to go back.
The winner was in place and it was the most simple to reinforce.
Blessings

[Swampman]

Does the military really need a sidearm?  That is the question.

[SHOOTALL]

I can't remember the general's name but when England was deciding on a handgun for its military back around the turn of the last century he commited that if and when a soilder needed a handgun he da-- well need a big one . If i remember it was a debate over using the 455 or the 38 . He had seen action .
Swampman my brother was a medic he carried a 1911 . Said a rifle would have been to much to carry along with med supplies and his combat gear. From that it would seem they do need one .

[williamlayton]

A backup is always needed---wheather ever used or not.
Blessings

[Bob Riebe]

If one looks at the situation with the mind of economy, the 9 was the choice.
It took a lot of money to discard the the .45 and would take a lot more money to go back.
The winner was in place and it was the most simple to reinforce.
Blessings

Soldier of Fortune magazine people interviewing soldiers in battle zones, and some gents I spoke with at a Linebaugh seminar some time back found the Berreta to be lacking mainly due to the caliber.
The Berreta seems to be the answer to a question no soldiers ever really asked.
SoF has pictures of soldiers, other than, special forces or Marines carrying 1911s in Iraq, there must be a reason.

[SHOOTALL]

didn't the Marines keep the 1911 ?

[teddy12b]

didn't the Marines keep the 1911 ?

I think some may have, like recon units, but for the most part the entire military is using the M9.  I'd just like to see the military get a high capacity 45acp and the problem would be solved except for being a little heavier.

[Joshua M. Smith]

See my post above.

The Marine Expeditionary Unit, a spearhead unit, kept them in modified form.  Very nice weapons, very tough and serviceable.

Josh <><