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Offline DalesCarpentry

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The movie Frost/Nixon?
« on: January 30, 2009, 02:21:52 PM »
I just watched the movie Frost-Nixion. Great movie by the way. It is kind of like watching a boxing match where the underdog wins in the last round. When I first started watching the movie I thougt this interview between Frost and Nixon never took place. After the move was over I did a little research and it really did. When the Watergate thing took place in 1974 I was 6 years old ( I was 11 years old when this interview took place ) and really know nothing about it other than this movie and what I have heard. I would like to hear how how you older guys remember it and did any of you see the interview between them. Below is a trans script of the last interview.
 Thanks Dale



Nixon's Views on Presidential Power:
Excerpts from an Interview with David Frost


The following is an excerpt from an interview with former President Nixon conducted by David Frost. It aired on television on May 19, 1977.

FROST: The wave of dissent, occasionally violent, which followed in the wake of the Cambodian incursion, prompted President Nixon to demand better intelligence about the people who were opposing him. To this end, the Deputy White House Counsel, Tom Huston, arranged a series of meetings with representatives of the CIA, the FBI, and other police and intelligence agencies.

 
  These meetings produced a plan, the Huston Plan, which advocated the systematic use of wiretappings, burglaries, or so-called black bag jobs, mail openings and infiltration against antiwar groups and others. Some of these activities, as Huston emphasized to Nixon, were clearly illegal. Nevertheless, the president approved the plan. Five days later, after opposition from J. Edgar Hoover, the plan was withdrawn, but the president's approval was later to be listed in the Articles of Impeachment as an alleged abuse of presidential power.

 
FROST: So what in a sense, you're saying is that there are certain situations, and the Huston Plan or that part of it was one of them, where the president can decide that it's in the best interests of the nation or something, and do something illegal.

 
NIXON: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.

 
FROST: By definition.

 
NIXON: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position.

 
FROST: So, that in other words, really you were saying in that answer, really, between the burglary and murder, again, there's no subtle way to say that there was murder of a dissenter in this country because I don't know any evidence to that effect at all. But, the point is: just the dividing line, is that in fact, the dividing line is the president's judgment?

 
NIXON: Yes, and the dividing line and, just so that one does not get the impression, that a president can run amok in this country and get away with it, we have to have in mind that a president has to come up before the electorate. We also have to have in mind, that a president has to get appropriations from the Congress. We have to have in mind, for example, that as far as the CIA's covert operations are concerned, as far as the FBI's covert operations are concerned, through the years, they have been disclosed on a very, very limited basis to trusted members of Congress. I don't know whether it can be done today or not.

 
FROST: Pulling some of our discussions together, as it were; speaking of the Presidency and in an interrogatory filed with the Church Committee, you stated, quote, "It's quite obvious that there are certain inherently government activities, which, if undertaken by the sovereign in protection of the interests of the nation's security are lawful, but which if undertaken by private persons, are not." What, at root, did you have in mind there?

 
NIXON: Well, what I, at root I had in mind I think was perhaps much better stated by Lincoln during the War between the States. Lincoln said, and I think I can remember the quote almost exactly, he said, "Actions which otherwise would be unconstitutional, could become lawful if undertaken for the purpose of preserving the Constitution and the Nation."

Now that's the kind of action I'm referring to. Of course in Lincoln's case it was the survival of the Union in wartime, it's the defense of the nation and, who knows, perhaps the survival of the nation.

 
FROST: But there was no comparison was there, between the situation you faced and the situation Lincoln faced, for instance?

 
NIXON: This nation was torn apart in an ideological way by the war in Vietnam, as much as the Civil War tore apart the nation when Lincoln was president. Now it's true that we didn't have the North and the South—

 
FROST: But when you said, as you said when we were talking about the Huston Plan, you know, "If the president orders it, that makes it legal", as it were: Is the president in that sense—is there anything in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that suggests the president is that far of a sovereign, that far above the law?

 
NIXON: No, there isn't. There's nothing specific that the Constitution contemplates in that respect. I haven't read every word, every jot and every title, but I do know this: That it has been, however, argued that as far as a president is concerned, that in war time, a president does have certain extraordinary powers which would make acts that would otherwise be unlawful, lawful if undertaken for the purpose of preserving the nation and the Constitution, which is essential for the rights we're all talking about.

 

© 1977 by The New York Times Company. Reprinted by permission.

From the third Nixon-Frost interview, The New York Times, May 20, 1977, p. A16.


Questions to Consider:
Article II of the Articles of Impeachment against President Nixon stated that the president "repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens". If the president took action against antiwar groups, which constitutional rights did he likely violate?


In this interview, how does President Nixon justify these alleged violations of constitutional rights?


It has often been said that in the United States we have the rule of law, not men. What do you think this means? Does President Nixon's statement that "when the president does it [something illegal], that means that it is not illegal" support the idea that the United States has the rule of law, not men? Why or why not?


President Nixon states that there are other ways of containing a president's power besides the rule of law. What, according to Nixon, keeps a president in check? Do you think these checks are enough to prevent the abuse of power by a president?


President Nixon compares the situation he faced as president during the Vietnam War with the situation that Lincoln faced during the Civil War. He uses that comparison to support the idea that presidents may have to take extraordinary, even illegal, actions to hold the nation together and preserve its security. Does Nixon's comparison stand up? In other words, from your understanding of the historical period and President Nixon's actions, was he justified?

http://www.landmarkcases.org/nixon/nixonview.html
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2009, 01:36:47 AM »
I would to know as well. Was Nixon a hero or was he a villian?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2009, 01:42:18 AM »
A good man brought down by the liberals.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 02:01:22 AM »
He admits to making mistakes in the movie. I think from what I can tell he probably was a pretty good man. I think he cost a lot of young Americans their lives but I think in his heart he was doing the right thing at the time. I would still like to hear other peoples take on him and his office because like I said I was to young to remember. JMHO Dale
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Offline Swampman

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 02:19:32 AM »
JFK & LBJ cost a lot of young men their lives.  Nixon could have won the war if they'd let him continue dropping bombs.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Offline Hammerspur

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 02:42:11 AM »
I do believe he was a good man and a good leader/administrator who was trying the best he could to improve the social and geo-political situation the US was in during that very difficult period.
It was no time for softness or inaction.

There was Viet Nam dividing the nation and costing lives. There was the racial struggle reaching crescendo.
Some worried those issues could lead to actual armed civil war!

And there was a recession and rising unemployment, especially for young people who were trying to get started with little skill or experience. To address this problem Nixon initiated the CETA program which employed many young people in local municipal positions on a sort of 'apprenticeship' basis for the positions held. This was funded by national monies granted the states and municipalities. If things worked out the subsidized employee could transition into un-subsidized, standard employment with the local agency.
(I benefitted from this assistance having been employed by my state's mental health system for 34 years come this May.)

Nixon was really quite a progressive president, a term usually applied solely to those of a liberal bent.

Daunting administrative challenges led, according to latter day analyses, to a 'paranoia' on Nixon's part. He saw formal conspiracies behind the social dissonance taking place, which in some cases was accurate.
This is offered as the impetus for the mistakes he made attempting to maintain some national stasis and address and head off threats to the nation's cultural cohesion.

Nixon certainly saw the upheavals of the era as threats to our national security and reacted at times in ways that were certainly in the 'gray' area of legality and ethics or worse.
Today some have accused the Bush administration of reacting in the same way and for the same reasons as far as I can interpret... attempting to protect national security.

Consider that many contemporary historical treatises on FDR's and Lincoln's methodologies during their own national emergencies have indicated implications of the same so-called abuses of power as a means to a vital end.
Steve
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 03:29:57 AM »
Nixon had a flaw that proved to be his Achilles tendon--he was a paranoid of the first order.
His foreign policy was of the first order, partly because of his secretary of state and the rest because he left it to his Secretary of state--Kissinger. he seemed to have absolute trust in him but not many others.
JFK---too his defense, was left pretty blindsided by Eisenhower, and holding a bag of worms.
Viet Nam may not be completely understood for years. there are many players in this conflict and I still believe the military and military industrial complex was the strong arm in this.
LBJ was clueless and much like Hitler, his interferrance and in-house counsel tried to run a war politically.
Nixon is not my favorite President. His weakness's were major. He was a flawed President, more flawed emotionally than any since I have been around.
IMO
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Offline Swampman

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2009, 03:48:39 AM »
Right out of the left wing handbook! :)
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ms

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2009, 03:53:15 AM »
Here a quote from Henry Kissinger. Military men are just dumb stupid animals. To be used as pawns in foreign policy. This came from his book kiss the boys goodbye how the united states betrayed its own p.o.w in Vietnam.

Offline Swampman

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2009, 03:56:03 AM »
Kissinger?  And I thought we were talking about Nixon?????

You're back on ignore.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ms

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2009, 04:03:18 AM »
Kissinger?  And I thought we were talking about Nixon?????

You're back on ignore.
Your a weak person.

Offline oldandslow

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2009, 04:52:53 AM »
The whole JFK, LBJ, Nixon era is something I try to not think about. As far as ranking NIxon, he was head and shoulders above JFK and LBJ wouldn't even reach up to Nixon's ankles. I didn't think JFK was very good and LBJ was absolutely awful when in office. Nixon wasn't the greatest but he had those two beat.

No, I haven't seen the movie and am not planning on seeing it.

Offline beerbelly

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2009, 05:28:09 AM »
I hated JFK and cheered when he was knocked off. But it was the worst thing that could have happend. He was very ineffectual as president. But after he was assassinated , they passed all his civil rights legislation, including the voting rights act and that was the beginning of the end of this country.
                               Beerbelly

Offline williamlayton

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2009, 10:51:01 PM »
I am certainly not a liberal but if these thoughts are out of their handbook then they are correct--IMO.
Nixon spent all of his energy on finding out who his enemies were. He could do that without all of the extra curricular activities if he had just looked at the Democratic roster.
His famous quote after being defeated by JFK is VERY telling---"now you won't have me too kick around anymore."
As an attorney he and his staff were very good at loopholes but he forgets that there is no loopholes for breaking the law---even a President.
I am a Republican but we did such a poor job choosing Nixon, Goldwater was a much more balanced individual.
I could almost make the statement that I am positive that  the leadership of the RNC chooses those who follow company policy instead of strong individuals.
I give you Ron Paul as a case in point.
The republicans, for all their correctness on policy and economics, like too control their Presidents.
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Offline SM Bob

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 06:57:52 PM »
I remember watching those interviews first hand when they happened back in the late 70's
In my opinion, from the get go, Frost wanted to ambush Nixon and embarrass him. The left
wing loonies thought that that was great. I thought it was despicable. I thought Nixon handled
himself pretty well during the interviews. He should have never agreed to have been
interviewed in the first place, in my opinion.

                                      Robert
 

Offline williamlayton

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Re: The movie Frost/Nixon?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 12:02:49 AM »
It was not a hard ambush--he was wide open for commentary.
It was fruitful too the point that we got insight into Nixon's mind. The interviews did not suprise me that much.
I admit too not being much of a Nixon fan.
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