Author Topic: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?  (Read 7635 times)

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Offline Brazos_Jack

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Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« on: February 01, 2009, 07:28:35 AM »
I’m thinking about a European style stalking rifle. Break action, light weight, preferably in a rimmed cartridge like 6.5x57R, 7x65R or 8x57JRS. I’d love a Merkel K-1, but I think they’re probably a bit steep. What do they cost new, in the US, now in the calibers I named?

How good a rifle was the now out of production Thompson Center TCR-83 and TCR-87 Aristocrat? Is anyone still making barrels for them? Good enough to be worth looking for? About what would an Aristocrat cost in nice shape these days?

How about the BRNO Effect? Are they going to be offered in the U.S.? How much do they cost? How do they compare to the Merkel? How do they compare to the TCR Aristocrat?

Any other suggestions?

I’d probably top it with something like a Leupold 1.75-6x32.

Brazos Jack

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2009, 07:32:37 AM »
how  about  an H&R/handi???????????????????????
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Skunk

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2009, 07:38:14 AM »
how  about  an H&R/handi???????????????????????

That's not European Styling. The man wants the European look. ;)
Mike

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Offline Brazos_Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2009, 08:39:42 AM »
Yep, Euro style means top break with no exposed hammer. So I'm really not looking for an H&R or TC Encore. I realize that means "affordable" may have to stretch to the $1000 or so range.

Anybody have experience with the Thomson Center TCR Aristocrat - either -83 or -87? Is anyone making custom barrels for these?

Anything else out there in true Euro style and priced in the rather sizable gap between the TC Encore and the Merkel K-1?

Brazos Jack

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2009, 08:42:42 AM »
russian baikal
now  imported  as the remington spartain
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline xhare

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2009, 06:13:55 PM »
You may be able to find a Mossberg SSI-1, but certainly not in those calibers.

Offline Hammerspur

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 12:46:39 PM »
russian baikal
now  imported  as the remington spartain

Brazos_Jack,
That was my first thought too, but I don't see any rimmed calibers listed or ANY calibers at all at Remington's site:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/SPR_models/SPR18.asp

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105544.0.html
Steve
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Offline Brazos_Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 01:22:47 AM »
I'm looking for something a little nicer than the Russian Baikal made Remingtons. Something at least as nice as the old T/C TCR Aristocrat. In fact I'd consider finding an Aristocrat if there are any custom barrel makers still offering custom barrels for it in the European rimmed cartridges I want (like 6.5x57R or 7x65R). But as far as I know the custom barrel makers no longer make barrels for the TCR. Anybody know of a reliable, quality cutom barrel maker that still offers TCR barrels?

The BRNO Effect looks like a real possiblity. I only have very sketchy information on it. I'm from Texas but right now I'm working overseas in a middle east oil field where any gun related sites they sense are blocked. So its hard for me to find any info on the Effect. Mostly Rumors. Rumor of a Canadian price of 1400 CDN but no idea of U.S. pricing or whether that Canadian price was MSRP or street price. I've heard that interchangable barrels will NOT be available. I suppose the Czech's aren't up to the requisit tolerances. But again, this is only rumor. Any hard info on this rifle would be appreciated. US pricing, calibers available, whether or not what I've heard with regard to no interchangable barrels is true, or who in the U.S. can I get one ordered from? Some good pics would be appreciated too.

Next up in price would be the Merkel K-1 or Blaser K95. But they are more than twice the cost of a BRNO and way outside of my budget.

Brazos Jack

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 02:24:02 AM »
It is possible to pull an existing barrel from a TCR-83 or TCR-87 barrel-monoblock assembly and replace it with a new (higher quality) barrel of a different caliber. I have had this done.

Online Graybeard

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 03:51:24 AM »
I'm pretty sure GBO Sponsor SSK Industries still makes them for that rifle and GBO Sponsor MGM might also but I'm less sure on that than of SSK. Check with both and see.


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Offline bull

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 04:13:09 AM »
If you can find one........... a Savage/Stevens model 219 would fit the bill quite nicely.  I have one in 30-30 that has been reamed to 30-30 AI and shoots just wonderful. 26" barrel, thin splinter type forearm, auto eject. I also have a 12ga shotgun barrel for the same frame. I think these were available in 30-30 and 22Hornet, not sure about anything else. Does make a nice rifle for sneaking through the woods.

bull

Offline Brazos_Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 10:25:48 AM »
"I'm pretty sure GBO Sponsor SSK Industries still makes them for that rifle and GBO Sponsor MGM might also but I'm less sure on that than of SSK. Check with both and see."

I work overseas so I can't check with these custom barrels directly. But someone on another forum checked with SSK for me. They no longer offer barrels for the TCR.

That makes the BRNO a more likely option. I just have to hope that CZ USA is smart enough to realize that the market for a $1000 to $1200 break open single shot is not for .308's and .30-06's. Those guys will either go T/C Encore or Ruger No. 1. The market for European style kipplauf's is for European rimmed metric calibers like 6,5x57R, 7x65R, 7x57R, or 8x57JRS.

Brazos Jack

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 10:44:18 AM »
If you look on gunbrokers.com there are always 83 and 87 listed from time to time new but old stock or like new not in cal. you are looking for and prices range from 1000 us to 1300 so are not cheap. Mossberg ssi one is a break action but under leaver like a leaver action. I have 2 of them but again not in your cal. but much cheaper than 87 and 83 but they too are very hard to find.
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Offline no guns here

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 09:49:41 PM »
Don't know your price range for sure but Chapuis makes a REALLY nice little single shot.  I think to get a European model single shot stalking rifle, you are going to be in the $2,500 range... that's just based on the stuff that I see here in Germany.  I can look around a bit more and see what I can find.

ngh
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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 10:03:30 PM »
Okay, so I searched around on www.frankonia.de which is a high end hunting type store here in Germany.  I quickly found two stalking rifles, the Blaser K95 at +4,000 Euro and the Sabatti Kipplaufbuchse at about 1,400 Euro.  Nice stuff... especially that Blaser.  Prices are cheaper stateside that here in Germany.  Good luck finding one.

ngh
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Brazos_Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 07:20:24 AM »
Thanks no guns here,

Since CZ USA seems to be too stupid to import the rimmed metric calibers - which are the only ones there is any market for in this type of rifle in this price range, the Sabatti may be the better candidate. Particularly if it supports interchangeable barrels, which BRNO does not. It seems to be only about $200 more than the BRNO, so I'm assuming a U.S. MSRP around $1800 and a street price around $1350 - $1450.

Does anyone know if there is a U.S. importer for the Sabatti Kipplaufbuchse?

Brazos Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:08:04 AM »
I'm pretty sure that it is a single barrel gun... wait, I mean it doesn't have interchangeable barrels.  If you want an interchangeable barrel I can recommend without reservation the Blaser R93.  If you get the synthetic model, you can get into it semi-sort of-affordably.  Extra barrels, new wood, different bolt heads and bolts can be expensive.  As long as you stay in the same family of cartridges with the same head sizes all you have to change is the barrel.  Glass mounts directly to barrel.  Great trigger, really accurate and the straight pull bolt action is incredibly fast.  I'll either buy one of these or a new Blaser drilling for my retirement present to myself in the next year or so.  I've never shot an R93 that grouped over an inch...  Heck if you are in the middle east working oil then you oughta be able to buy one or two of the Blasers every year!  Just kiddin'...  Check out the Chapuis if you can.  If not, let me know and I'll post it here tomorrow.  We had one at our Rod and Gun Club for three years.  Just about the time I finally convinced the wife to let me put it on lay-away, a buddy retired and went in an bought up half the store including MY Chapuis! 


ngh
"I feared for my life!"

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 09:09:07 AM »
I just realized that you beat up CZ... they don't (at least to my knowledge) make a break open single shot anyway...

ngh
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Offline Hammerspur

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 10:26:25 AM »
I just realized that you beat up CZ... they don't (at least to my knowledge) make a break open single shot anyway...ngh

Maybe not, but they market BRNO's: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=103
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 11:20:37 AM »
I know it is not exactly what your looking for but what about a Ruger No 1 I in 7X57?
There was also the Ruger No 3 in 30-40 Krag that may fit the bill of what you want the rifle to be.

I wish Handi would make an enclosed hammer rifle.  Or Ruger would make one where the barrels would swap.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 09:17:49 PM »
Not to spin the topic but I have been considering the Ruger No. 1 off and on for many years.  I just can't get past the underlever and the stock that to my eyes looks like a boy scout whittled it.  No matter what model I look at it doesn't have the "graceful" lines of a european styled single shot stalking rifle.  The action and the wrist area are thick and heavy looking and detract from the overall looks, at least for me. 


ngh
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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 09:25:03 PM »
An appropriate stalking rifle...

http://www.chapuis-armes.com/Oural-Luxe.html

Now that I went and looked it up... I'm going to have to sell a kid or two to buy one.  Probably won't get a chance to put one on lay-away ever again...


ngh
"I feared for my life!"

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 11:19:50 PM »
Here's another that has that classic stalking rifle look.  I can't afford it though... Looking at 4,600Euro minumum.

It's attached, not sure how it shows up.  I've never put pictures on here before.

ngh
"I feared for my life!"

Offline ironglow

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 11:38:47 PM »
 Ahy is the enclosed hammer so important? I have the aforementioned Savage 219 and have had break action shotguns that had enclosed hammers. I prefer to have the choices of the hammer position on my guns where possible..but then, my cars & trucks are all manual transmissions.  :D
  Controlling type personality, I guess.  ;)  ;D   Just my $.02
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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 12:10:07 AM »
Not necessarily, I tend to like the light, lithe, svelte look of the hammerless though.  Some of the older hammered styles look good to me to.  For some reasons the more modern hammer guns seem to be chunky and heavy in the wrist area and that detracts from the overall slim, trim look of the guns.  But that's all my opinion...


ngh
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Hammerspur

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 05:41:21 AM »
Not necessarily, I tend to like the light, lithe, svelte look of the hammerless though.  Some of the older hammered styles look good to me to.  For some reasons the more modern hammer guns seem to be chunky and heavy in the wrist area

You can slim 'em down quite a bit though.

Steve
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Offline Frank46

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 04:09:17 PM »
Just looked at the Bruno effect. Beautiful!!!!!!. But although they can't go wrong with the '06 cartridge at 6+ pounds will rattle your bridge work. At 62 I have enough pain and do not want to have to pay all that money for more. Just a thought, have you ever considered a pedersoli double rifle??. I believe they make one in the 8x57R cartridge. But then again we come to the $64 question money. Best wishes on your quest. Frank

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 08:10:40 PM »
I'm with ya' on that one.  The BRNO is awfully nice.  I'd love to have one of those that was in a lighter caliber.  I'd take a small 6.5 (rimmed of course) in a heart beat.

ngh
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Offline Brazos_Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2009, 01:30:24 AM »
The BRNO Effect in a mild rimmed metric caliber like 6.5x57R, 7x57R or 7x65R would be ideal for me. BRNO does manufacture them in those calibers. The U.S. MSRP is reported to be between $1500 and $1600. I'm guessing a street price between $1100 and $1300. So far so good.

Now the bad news. CZ USA will only import these in .30-06. I have less than ZERO interest in an Effect in a rimless cartridge that is inapropriate for its extractor design and a cartridge that has too much recoil to be pleasant for most of us to shoot in a 6 lb or less (reported 2.7kg = 5.9lb) .

An aquaintance in Canada sent close up pictures of a BRNO Effect in '06. I wish I had the ability to post pics from here. The jury rig they came up with to get the extractor to handle rimless cases looks flimsy and failure prone. No thank you. Otherwise it looks like a nice rifle. If they wouldn't have sawed a big slot in the extractor to add the thin rimless extractor ,a little pin to hold it in place, and the little coil spring to raise it into place, they obviously would have had a nice, simple, beefy, one piece rimmed case extractor. Instead they have a big saw cut deep into the meat of the extractor and 3 extra little pieces to cause problems.

Its frustrating that BRNO makes the rifle that I, and most others that have spoken up on the subject, want but CZ USA won't import it.

Brazos Jack

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Re: Affordable European Style Stalking Rifle?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2009, 06:12:28 AM »
I guess if I had the money, I could buy one and bring it home but it would take some time...  I'd have to register it in Germany, then do the Form 6 and then bring it home.  Then, technically I'd have to wait 6 months before I could sell it...  Plus I'd have to pay full Euro price...

ngh
"I feared for my life!"