38 Special Pfft

[Pumah25]

I am reloading for a variety of calibers but I am having particular difficulty with 38 Spec. I squeezed the trigger on my Marlin only to hear pffft. The bullet traveled about 18 inches... The barrel is unfortunately 24 inches. I was able to push the bullet out using a cleaning rod. I tried 5 more 38's all had the same result. I fired some 357 through and they worked fine.

1. I am using the same batch of powder for 357 and 38. So powder is not faulty.

2. I am using the same bullets for 357 and 38. So bullet is not at fault.

3. I am using the same primers in the 38 and my 40 S&W. The rounds for the 40 performed fine. So it is not the primers.

4. I tore down several of the remaining 38's and found the correct charge of Accurate #2.

5. I noticed that when the action was opened there was a hissing sound as though pressure was escaping.

6. The 38's did not feed quite as smooth. Is this a symptom or just normal in a rifle that shoots 2 different length cartridges.

7. The case is VERY dirty when ejected. Covered with soot. The 357's using the same powder are not. 

My suspicion is that I am not taking the bell out of the mouth of the case quite enough and this is causing a failure to build pressure when the primer is struck. Any input is greatly appreciated.

[Steve P]

The small amount of AA#2 is probably case sensitive.  If you have your gun pointed down and bring it up to fire, the powder is going to be down by the bullet.  If the rifle is pointed up, and brought down level to fire, the powder will be near the primer and should ignite fine. 

What sounds like is happening is your powder is down by the bullet, your primer is going off, the pressure is forcing the bullet out of the case,  the powder is being blown forward, and is not igniting. 

For similar light loads of fast burning powders I put in an over powder wad.  I make these wads out of the foam meat trays that you get at the supermarket.  A fired brass cuts them out nicely.  I enlarge the primer hole in a fired shell and put a nail thru the primer hole with head of the nail up inside the case.  Cut out three or four wads and push them out of the case with the nail. 

I charge 5-10 cases, then tap 1 (one) Uno, a single foam wad down onto the powder.  This is good way to confirm no double charges and keeps powder near the primer.  Then I seat the bullets.

You can do something similar to this, change powder, or go to a hotter primer.

Steve

[Swampman]

Try Bulls Eye or Unique.

[Savage]

Try Bulls Eye or Unique.

Yep!!
Savage

[Pumah25]

I will get some of Unique to try. I have heard that it is very versatile.
It seems as though this would cause a similar problem in the 357's as well. They do get a larger charge but they are also larger in case volume. Is the reason that the 357 is performing fine the Magnum primer?

[wncchester]

Your charges are too light.

[Steve P]

5.0 grains of Unique with cast 158-170 is a great plinking and hunting load.

Steve

[corbanzo]

Also - pistol loads are not meant to be rifle loads.  If you are using a "plinker" load for a small .38 handgun, it isn't gonna have the powder to move down 8 times more barrel length!

Your cases are covered in soot mainly because none of it is leaving the barrel, and could be because the chamber is just a little looser than in your other .38's, meaning more pressure needed for a good seal. 

[Pumah25]

Great info. You have all given me a lot to think about. I think my powder will be changing for this particular caliber.
-Nick

[Graybeard]

Very low velocity loads should be restricted to handguns only not rifles and should use lead bullets only never jacketed bullets. I would not recommend less than full pressure/velocity .38 loads in a 24" rifle barrel and especially not with jacketed bullets. It matters not the powder used if you don't get the velocity up and/or use lead bullets they aren't gonna get to the muzzle.

[Pumah25]

Graybeard,
Thank you for the input. I will keep that in mind as I work up my new loads.
-Nick

[cjclemens]

I dont use 38 special in a rifle, but I started using a factory crimp die on my handloads.  It seemed to make a lot of difference when it comes to building pressure in lighter loads.  I dont know how well they would work for a rifle, but you might consider trying it.

[bilmac]

I don't like Accurate #2. It's a very dirty powder, Throw your empties in a container and when you get home the bottom of the container is covered with what looks like unburned powder. I suspect when you start using Unique your troubles will be over.

[ironglow]

 I likely don't reload nearly as much as most of you guys, but a couple questions pop to mind;

 1) Would a less concetrated powder (e.g. H4227) that more nearly fills the case, be better?

 2) Was the Pfft and the soot around the case due to the case not expanding enough to seal off the gas pressures?

[Savage]

ironglow,
When the bullet stopped in the barrel, it sealed the bore. The small amount of pressure couldn't push the bullet out the barrel, so naturally it escaped around the case. As others have suggested, use a different powder, crimp the case, and the problem goes away. And NEVER use reduced pistol loads in a rifle!
Savage

[ironglow]

 Gotcha Savage..