Author Topic: Accuracy Question (Read 1941 times)

Leatherstocking · « **on:** February 02, 2009, 12:44:32 PM »

A good friend of mine is selling a Ruger M77 and he let me borrow it to test drive it. I shot it this weekend, (only took a total of 10 shots wth a box of ammo he gave me). Shootin' at 75 yards at my club's range. It was shooting very high so after a few I adjusted the scope so I could put a better group on the paper. Shots came in close enough to the bull to see what kind of group the gun could do. Last five shots were fairly well grouped and all within 2". The two farthes shots were 2" apart, the other three were tighter. My question is, is this reasonable accuracy or should I expect better? I have always been a shotgun hunter and the only other rifles I own are 30-30's and a .222. Obviously for a shotgun this would be good, but for a 30-06?

Other significant details I thought might matter: It was cold as heck (difficult conditions), I am new to the gun. Ammo was 165 grain Remington PSP. Gun has probably had only 30-50 rounds through it before me. Gun is in mint condition.

Thanks.

charles p · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:26:41 PM »

If it has been shot 50 times without removing copper from the barrel, it probably will shoot better if cleaned of all copper residue. It may also improve with trigger work. Since you are new to rifles, I suggest you ask someone at your club who is a very good shot, to test drive your rifle for you.

ARe you using iron sights or a scope?

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2009, 03:15:22 PM »

Thanks. Good advice. I will give it a good cleaning. Trigger seems excellent. It has a cheap scope on it at the moment. I am not totally new to rifles, but admittedly haven't shot them as much as some guys. Just wondering what this gun should really be able to do. I think with a little cleaning and a good scope and a day when I am not shivering on the bench, it should shoot better.

BRL · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:19:07 AM »

That was my first thought too...was it clean? My hunting rifles only group around 1.5 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards. But that is fine for hunting. If I ever get into "accuracy" shooting, I know I'll be in the market for a new rifle. Not to boast, but I've never missed a shot on an animal with that 2" accuracy. My shots have been under 150 yards though and I don't chance ANY shots.

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:41:33 AM »

Leatherstocking: actually, 2" groups with a 06 and a crummy scope are pretty good. I would follow the advice of others and first give it a good cleaning to get the copper fouling out and then consider replacing the scope if you intend to purchase the rifle. A new scope may well close up those groups, as might a good cleaning. Sometimes new rifles, or even old ones that have not yet been shot much, can foul easily if the bore is rough and has not yet been broken in.

So, to answer your question - yes, that is reasonable accuracy and, if you so choose it can be improved. I would first clean it and then rescope it. If that gives you the accuracy you want, fine. If not, I would consider bedding the action which should improve the consistency of your shot placement. Good luck andlet us know how it goes. Mikey.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2009, 03:32:57 AM »

Thats not a bad start and can be improved on. Inside of two inches is plenty for hunting, Snipers consider one moa good your not far off that.

DKA · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2009, 04:24:15 AM »

After cleaning, might also try different bullets. Sometimes these rifles are finicky.

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2009, 04:06:44 PM »

OK, I'm convinced. I think I'll have to buy it

. Like I said the rifle is in mint condition and has not been shot much. I wondered if it might need some breaking in. I'll be happy to do that! The recoil wasn't bad either. I had shot a friends 30-06 last year and it knocked my socks off. This Ruger seemed much smoother (more smooth?). I'll try some different ammo too. Thanks again.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2009, 12:44:08 AM »

Sorry guys, good for hunting or not, I would be pretty disappointed with a 30/06 bolt action rifle that couldn't do at least 1 MOA.

BRL · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2009, 01:57:12 AM »

This rifle may do 1 MOA with a few minor chores or different ammo.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2009, 03:51:20 AM »

Leatherstocking –

The Ruger rifles in general are capable of outstanding accuracy and I have the targets to prove it. I would not worry about your test results but, rather, would be encouraged.

There are a couple things I do to my Ruger rifles. The first is I free float the barrel and reseal the channel. This takes about 20 minutes or less and requires a screwdriver, Magic Marker, a couple grades of sandpaper and some polyurethane. Remove the action and barrel, loop a half-sheet of sandpaper around the Magic Marker and start sanding. There will be a bump near the tip of the forearm which needs to be sanded out and you will need to remove a bit from the rest of the channel as well. Reassemble the rifle and try to slip a dollar bill between the barrel and the action. It should slide easily all the way down to the receiver. If it does not, more sanding is required. If it does, take a rag and dip it in the polyurethane, apply it to the freshly exposed wood, allow to dry, reassemble the rifle and do a final check. Done!

The second thing I do is polish up the trigger. Ruger triggers are very easy to work on and they can easily be polished up by following instructions readily available on the web. If you are not comfortable doing this, a gunsmith should do it for reasonable fee and replacement triggers are available. Actually, I free float the barrels and tune the triggers on all my rifles, so no big deal for me to do this to my Rugers.

With good handloads all of my Rugers will shoot under 1-1/4”, most significantly under (I have several that have shot groups under .5” when the wind was cooperating and a couple that have done half that) . I expect the rifle you are looking at will shoot quite well also.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2009, 05:31:14 AM »

I agree with Coyote Hunter.
I think you need to find the accuracy combo for the rifle.
First you need to get out of shotgun mode and think of squeezing the trigger. Dry fire the rifle a few times.
Second you need to get a good solid rest to test accuracy. Your arm is not a solid rest.
Third play with a few different loadings 150, 165, and 180 grain to see what your rifle likes best.
You also may want to look at the scope and hit the mounts with a screw driver to ensure everything is tight.
I have a few Ruger 77's and all shoot better than i do.
Good luck

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2009, 02:16:20 PM »

I handed over the cash to my friend today. That rifle is mine!

Can't wait to take a deer with it next fall.

charles p · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2009, 03:42:46 PM »

Never thought of this when you first asked the question, but if the seller has a dozen or more rifles and decided to sell this one, it may not be a shooter. On the other hand, if he was low on funds (and who isn't) and needed to sell something, you may have a poor shooting rifle than can be improved. Nothing scientific about this assumption, but if you came to me and said sell me a rifle, you surely wouldn't get the best rifle in the closet. Sometimes your best rifles come from private sellers, rather than dealers.

You never know. I bought a lightweight 7mm-08 Rem LVSF on Gunbroker and it turned out to be a real sweetie. Told my friend and he found one as his was a shooter as well. You just never know when you buy from an auction.

FW Conch · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2009, 10:01:34 PM »

In MHO you have gotten excellent advice here. I to am a shot gunner & the better I get @ it the

more I have to "turn my head around" when I go back to the rifle, & especially the pistol. Trigger squeeze

as opposed to a controlled jerk. I think that rifle can be brought in to a "good shooter" ! Jim

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:50:23 AM »

Agreed. It has been excellent advice and much appreciated! And although I think I shoot a rifle fairly well, there is no doubt that I have a lot of room for improvement! I think I'll head out to the range and practice, practice, practice. Fortunately, my uncle tells me he has ~400 rounds of 30-06 reloads for me to practice with on that gun

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:09:53 PM »

Quote from: Leatherstocking on February 14, 2009, 03:50:23 AM

Agreed. It has been excellent advice and much appreciated! And although I think I shoot a rifle fairly well, there is no doubt that I have a lot of room for improvement! I think I'll head out to the range and practice, practice, practice. Fortunately, my uncle tells me he has ~400 rounds of 30-06 reloads for me to practice with on that gun

If those reloads were not developed SPECIFICALLY for your rifle you need to be very cautious. Ask your uncle what the load is and make sure they are not max loads. Double check against online sources or his reloading books.

I have three .30-06's and CANNOT safely shoot the same loads in the Savage that I do the Ruger M77 and Remington M700. By the same token, my buddy and I both have Ruger 7mm Rem Mags and they will not safely shoot the same loads.

jro45 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:31:49 AM »

My 30/06 Will shoot a 2" group at 200yds

454Puma · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2009, 08:11:15 AM »

Leatherstocking
Thats a good start! With a good cleaning, different ammo-stick with 165's as this seems to be the bullet weight for the '06! If you reload you can tailor the load to the gun. I found with my Savage 110 that medimum loadings with 125,150,165and 180 gr were the most accurate. These are loads that are right around 2600-2700 fps as this seems to be the sweet spot for my barrel harmonics! With my loads this gun will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards all day long with any bullet weight I shoot!

charles p · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2009, 01:44:28 PM »

If you have followed this forum very long, you know by now that everyone on here shoots 1/2 MOA or better, regardless or the rifle or caliber. Even if they don't, it's because they didn't do their part.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2009, 08:19:11 PM »

Quote from: charles p on March 16, 2009, 01:44:28 PM

If you have followed this forum very long, you know by now that everyone on here shoots 1/2 MOA or better, regardless or the rifle or caliber. Even if they don't, it's because they didn't do their part.

Thanks charles.
I needed a joke to cheer up my day.

To add to the cleaning tip while my rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless in 9.3x62, not a Ruger '06, I believe these photos demonstrate the point.
This had had about 30 shots down the spout.
A 3 shot group before cleaning:

And a 3 shot group after proper cleaning with TetraGun and oil:

Proof enough I'd say.

ThunderStick · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:25:17 PM »

I have a new 700 CDL SF in .260 Rem. that I am working on getting the best from at the present. I have been working on getting the barrel broken in properly, but after shooting and cleaning it STILL copper fouls very quickley! I spent my last morning at the range with this gun and several different realoadings,but left my cleaning rod at home. When it was all said and done the best group was from the first random loading! This loading had not previously shot this well. I am sure it was the clean barrell.

KAYR1 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:47:18 PM »

Those copper solvents can be nasty, and be sure to protect your stock finish, but they make a huge difference in accuracy improvement. I was working with my buddy's rifle last week, and he was wondering where his sub MOA groups went. He had only run a Bore Snake through it a few times. After a good dousing in Shooter's Choice and some elbow grease, tight groups magically reappeared.

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:31:27 PM »

What is a good copper solvent to use? And is it critical to use it on a bronze brush or just on cleaning pads?

ThunderStick · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:47:20 PM »

I've used a bunch of different stuff in the past. From Hoppeys copper solvent years ago, Barnes and Butches Bore Shine. The last thing I have tried is SharpShoot-R Wipe out foaming copper solvent. Man does that stuff work at getting the last bit of copper out! It doesn't stink, but boy is it MESSY! Next time I order I'm gonna order a bottle of the liquid. I do like the Butches Tripple Twill patches, but you have to use a jag a cal or two smaller to push them through.
After 20 rounds it took me all evening soaking and patching to get the last of the copper out of the barrell on the .260! My last rifle I did this every couple of YEARS!

Tn Jim · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:33:01 PM »

Get some of the Outers foaming bore cleaner. That stuff will remove the copper in one treatment. For handloads, try a 165 grain bullet and IMR-4350. My Rem 700 loves that combo. Also, going with a better quality scope can't hurt either. For now, just clean it well and got some range time with your new toy.