Need 40-65 accuracy help

[Tom H.]

I put together a 40-65 on a Husky rolling block for silhouette shooting and I am having problems with longer range accuracy.
It has a Ron Long barrel that came with its own mold which if I remember goes about 385 grains with alloy and is unsized.
I am using milk carton and my own lube recipe with beeswax, crisco, and olive oil all over 51 gr of Goex ctg.
At 100 yards it was grouping near an inch.
At 200yards it was >6"
Help.
I am pretty sure that it may be a velocity issue but...

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Tom

[Lead pot]

Tom.

51 grains of Goex Ctg is a a pretty light load for silhouette with a 385 grain bullet.
I don't even think 51 grains will fill a case enough to not have a air gap between the wad and bullet base.
Bur that might vary depending the brass you use.
For my .40-65 to knock over the Ram reliably I need 70 grains of 2F Goex express with a 420 grain bullet.
and even with that load I have rung a ram.

Lp

[John Boy]

Tom, I've never owned or shoot a 40-65 but for starters, but 51 gr CTG is too light of a powder charge for a 385gr BPCR bullet .  Sounds also, that getting the bullet to shoot 100+ yds is going to be a 'work in process'
Items you might want to consider with a groove diameter typically 0.408:
* Check you groove diameter to see if the as cast bullets are 0.002 greater than groove diameter for obturation
* Alloy:  would suggest 1:40 for good bump up
* Powder Charge: depending on how far you seat the out, try 65+gr CTG.  I shoot a lot of this powder and it produces.  The granualtion mix of CTG is basically a FFg powder (20 mesh – 97.54% retained ... 30 mesh – 01.70% retained) and my experience has proven that CTG will shoot nicely with a compression greater than 0.3"
* Sizing - Only neck size the case
* Case Chamfer:  Chamfer the mouth with a 15 or 22.5 degree chamfering tool
* Neck Expander: Expand the neck of the case 0.001 - 0.002 smaller than the base diameter of the bullet.  Here's a cheap source for expander plugs that can be used with the Lee die ... http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5wup43ubge51gvmjzsg53n45))/categories/partList.aspx?catID=18&subID=128&styleID=433
* Crimp: None or just enough to remove the bell
* COL: Seat the bullet so the nose is touching the leading bore cut of the barrel.  This will give you good concentricity
Then run you reloads over a chronograph and determine what the fps is @ 200yds using a trajectory program.  The key for long range shooting out to 1000yds is to get the bullet 'to sleep' as quickly as possible (concentricity) to minimize yaw and also keep the fps as close to sonic speed at a given target distance

I know it's frustrating to shoot MOA @ 100yds and at greater distances the groups are in the toilet.  I worked my back side off for one that was MOA at 100 and shot horrible groups past 300yds.  I finally gave up on the bullet!

And if you decide to give up on your bullet, try some Paul Jones Creedmoor bullets ... https://www.sageoutfitters.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=44001

[Tom H.]

Thanks for the pointers.

I was concerned about going transonic and the effect that would have further out.
One of the things I also thought about was calling Ron Long (hey, it was his slug and barrel) but I haven't been able to find contact info for him.

Regardless, I will definately try to up the powder charge and see what it does. I don't have any experience with compression dies but I am guessing that is what I need next.  The barrel will also need to be throated as it was rather short without much room for powder and the roller isn't very good about seating bullets that are a bit long.

Tom 

[Lead pot]

Tom.
Before messing around and throating the chamber find some one near you that shoots these rifles and pick his brains on how to load for black powder cartridge rifles.
With a throated chamber you will open another can of worms and it will deepen your learning curb.
Most rifles made now days dont have more then .050 freebore.
Get a bullet that has a bore diameter nose .0015 less is ok but you must use a good fouling control.
Compressing the powder is a with a die or a hand follower is a must use idem. You cant compress the powder with just seating the bullet or you will deform the bullet ogive (expand it) and you wont get the round seated and close the breach.
Less then .100 compression you might get away with it.
With bullets that have a ogive radius longer then 1.5 caliber diameter I would not go with a alloy softer then 1/25.
A alloy of 1/20 is good for just about anything and you will get full obtrusion even if that bullet diameter is under bore diameter.001.
I would suggest buying a few bullets, I'm going to suggest Sagebrush because I know him and I have seen the bullets he makes.
Tell him what you have and ask him questions, believe me he knows these rifles and how to load for them.

http://www.sagebrushproducts.com/

LP

[Sharps-Nut]

I used to shoot a 40-65 browning and goex cart.  Seems like my accurate load was around 60 gains, compressed roughly 1/16th inch .060 veggie fiber, dgl lube and a 400 grain brooks bullet.  The wind is sorta tough on 40 cals at least m ore than it was on my 45.  So maybe your load though light is  suffering from lack of compression, bullet too far from riflings, again due to lack of powder, and of course our old friend the wind, lack of follow thru, ect ect.  I would sure up my powder charge 60- 62 grains, compress powder roughly 1/16th, and make the bullet stick out far eneogh, but against the powder, to engrave the riflings lightly when closed into battery.  With a roller you don't have much camming action so you need to be sparing on the engrave, but it should be there.  Target test many rounds, dont let one or two groups make a call for you, blind hogs find acorns but the load you settle on should not be a blind hog.  The bullet quality also comes into question. Develope a rythm to casting inspect and cull all suspect bullets.  Watching for poor fill out, base tear out, and weight consistency.  My first two years in bpcr silhouette were miserable due to a poorly made lyman mould.  A custom paul jones took me from a class to aaa in one season.  Long rambling post but you get the idea if you have read many articles.  There is no magic bullet, what works for one guy may not for you, but there are general practices followed by most successful bpcr shooter.  Last maybe its your gun, mines for sale, it will improve your results honest,  just hacking at you, enjoy the sport.  My world used to revolve around it.