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Author Topic: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!  (Read 29803 times)

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Offline bubba

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2009, 02:57:32 AM »
Through email communication with Nick he conforemed they got my money order and will send mye out the 7/8 breech plugs when they are finished.  I cant wait to get them and try them. 
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Offline MSP Ret

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Thanks to Nick (and Busta also) for the great Carrierless 209 Breech Plug & a ?
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2009, 03:19:21 AM »
I am a bit late in responding but my "Nick's" breech plug came in and it's great. I was interested in the 2 shims/washers that came with it and the proper fit of an installed breechplug. With no shims and the o-ring installed I tried a Remington #57 shotgun primer in the gun (what I have on hand) and the primer was flush with the breech end of the barrel, exactly flush with no compression. I have not tried firing it yet am was wondering if you informed people, or you Nick, think it might be OK as is without a shim/washer. I would like to be able to shoot it reliably without a shim if possible. Has anyone else used any of the shims that come with the breech plug? I want to add that this fine product is the best thing that has come out for the Huntsman and Sidekicks. H&R owes Nick and his company a great thanks. I also want to thank Busta for his post, efforts, and great photos of this great product....<><....:)
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2009, 03:58:43 AM »
Andy,
 #57's.. MAN where you been hiding those????  ;D ;) Open up that wallet and step into the 21st century. Invest a couple bucks in the NEW size...its called # 209. Its only been around for 20 something years!!   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) 
Just funning you my friend, those 57s are a defunct size primer, smaller than the current 209 size that is now standard.

 Good read, butr I only just got the 25ACP conversion!!  I really like it, maybe if I get another H&R muzzle loader, but for now, I'll stick with the 25ACP.


CW
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Offline Nick Allen

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2009, 04:29:27 AM »
Thanks Andy, the shims only work in some guns. I say this because I have two Sidekicks and in one of them, a shim would push the plug back a couple thou. and in the other the plug is .050" away from the barrel face ??? 

I think I am just going to leave them out from now on as They really don't help unless you have a wierd gun ( like one of mine)

When a 209 primer is installed on top of a o-ring there should be a few thou of the primer sticking proud of the breech plug. This then will be compressed upon closing the gun. I have noticed that the standard pressure 209 primers may have a tendancy to stick in the primer pocket ( after firing) the primers that say designed for muzzleloaders do not stick. If one wants to run the standard 209's you may need to polish the inside of the pocket with a felt bob loaded with polishing compound on a dremmel tool.

Thanks
Nick :)
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2009, 04:34:48 AM »
OK and thanks guys, next time I get to Kittery Trading Post on my way up north I will pick up some proper primers. I have had these primers for YEARS now and did not realize they were not 209's. They fit the breech plug so I may just try one and will post about that in a short time....<><....:)
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Offline carbineman

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2009, 05:01:21 AM »
Quote from: Nick Allen on February 21, 2009, 04:29:27 AM
Thanks Andy, the shims only work in some guns. I say this because I have two Sidekicks and in one of them, a shim would push the plug back a couple thou. and in the other the plug is .050" away from the barrel face ??? 

I think I am just going to leave them out from now on as They really don't help unless you have a wierd gun ( like one of mine)

When a 209 primer is installed on top of a o-ring there should be a few thou of the primer sticking proud of the breech plug. This then will be compressed upon closing the gun. I have noticed that the standard pressure 209 primers may have a tendancy to stick in the primer pocket ( after firing) the primers that say designed for muzzleloaders do not stick. If one wants to run the standard 209's you may need to polish the inside of the pocket with a felt bob loaded with polishing compound on a dremmel tool.

Thanks
Nick :)
Nick are there any primers you have used that you would say work better/do not stick than the others? Right now I don't have any and would like to just buy one pack. I just reload rifle and pistol shells. My Sidekick will see limited use as mainly a hunting tool to extend my hunting season. Thanks...... Oh by the way, let me know if I can pre-pay for my 7/8" plug.
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Offline Busta

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2009, 05:07:23 AM »
Quote from: cwlongshot on February 21, 2009, 03:58:43 AM
Andy,
 #57's.. MAN where you been hiding those????  ;D ;) Open up that wallet and step into the 21st century. Invest a couple bucks in the NEW size...its called # 209. Its only been around for 20 something years!!   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) 
Just funning you my friend, those 57s are a defunct size primer, smaller than the current 209 size that is now standard.

 Good read, butr I only just got the 25ACP conversion!!  I really like it, maybe if I get another H&R muzzle loader, but for now, I'll stick with the 25ACP.


CW


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Quit it CW.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D And they (209's) have been around for at least 35 years, they are what I used as a kid when I reloaded back then.

"These Are Not Just Your Daddy's Shotgun Primers Anymore!"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120526238

All kidding aside Andy, the #57 primers are around .227" diameter, the 209 primers are around .245" in diameter, depending on the manufacturer. As you know by now they are much shorter also and if you try to use those you are going to have horrible blowback. Don't even waste your time with those, you will be severly disappointed.









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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2009, 05:12:34 AM »
I tried the #57 Remington primer and it worked but I had to pry it out of the carrier. I also came up with an idea I will soon post in another section since it has not much to do with ML's......or does it?

The idea may sound weird but it works, it is a combination of ML, rimfire, shotgun, and shotgun and/or rifle...and it all equals fun!!! I think I will borrow a name from my involvement with those evil black rifles, AR15's, for this is a true "Frankenrifle"!!!!....<><....:)
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2009, 05:19:59 AM »
Oh Oh! sorry Busta I already tried them and they worked with very little (hardly any) blowback. I do believe it may have hurt the o-ring a bit but it is still in one piece and usable. Thanks for the info on the diameter of the primers as well that helps a lot on my newest crazy but fun and workable idea I am going to post soon....Thanks....<><....:)
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Offline Busta

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2009, 05:39:12 AM »
Quote from: MSP Ret on February 21, 2009, 05:19:59 AM
Oh Oh! sorry Busta I already tried them and they worked with very little (hardly any) blowback. I do believe it may have hurt the o-ring a bit but it is still in one ptece and usable. Thanks for the info on the diameter of the primers as well that helps a lot on my newest crazy but fun and workable idea I am going to post soon....Thanks....<><....:)

I am not positive in the diameter of the #57's, I was just reading what was penciled in on the top of the boxes on Gun Broker. Did you shoot them under a load or just by themselves? There WILL be a difference.

Yeah, you can propel all kinds of things out of a muzzleloader with a 209 primer. But be careful, you'll shoot yer eye out. Soft E.A.R. plugs (the .535 cal wad cutter ones, not the .440 cal round nose E-A-R soft ones) will work, among other things. ::) ;D
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Offline Nick Allen

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2009, 06:41:38 AM »
Carbineman, I really like the Winchester T-7 primers ( I really only use loose T-7 powder). They are a touch longer than the Remingtons, so they seal better in the plug. They also have produced darn good accuracy at least for me. Now if you are using Blackhorn powder Busta will stear you in the right direction. I think he likes the Federal 209A primers. These are hotter than the Win. T-7 primers.

I hope this helps
Nick
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2009, 09:53:33 AM »
Thanks for your insight Nick, I am going to pick up a box of the Winchester T-7 primers since I have been using 777 lately and I prefer loose powder....<><....:)
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Offline Busta

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2009, 12:27:41 PM »
Andy,

Any of the 209 primers will work with 777 loose powder, but the Win SML209T7, Win WML209 (tan box), Rem Kleanbore, or Rem 209-4 (410 primers) if you can find them have a lesser charge, which is better to help keep the 777 crud ring at bay. I have only shot Blackhorn out of this new H&R Sidekick, so the 777 crud ring may not even be an issue with this plug. Nick would be able to fill you in on that.

Generally the hotter primers, CCI Standard & Mag, Rem STS, Win W209, or Fed 209A leave a crud ring in the barrel with 777 loose.

You might be able to get a deal on some T7 primers at Wally if there still available in your area on closeout. Otherwise they really charge a premium for them $6/$7/$8 is not uncommon for 100. The special muzzleloading primers are crazy priced.

All of these worked for me in Nick's plug w/o-ring, even with Blackhorn 209 punching paper, but I would suggest only the hottest ones for hunting with Blackhorn 209.

Reduced charge primers.










Standard charge primers.






Magnum/Hottest charge primers.



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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2009, 02:21:27 PM »
Great!! Thanks for your knowledge and tutorial buddy. I will print it out and take it with me when I go to by the new primers....<><....:)
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Offline moose

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2009, 11:45:11 PM »
Bought a 2002 Huntsman on Sunday, and calling NICK today to order my new and improved breech plug.............thanks
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2009, 06:18:26 AM »
Congratulations on your Huntsman Moose, you are going to love it, especially with the new breechplug from Nick. His breechplug seems to cure all the previous problems with Huntrsmans and Sidekicks. Have you removed the breech plug in your 2002 gun to be sure if it is a 5/8 or a 7/8 plug? Perhaps a learned member here could tell us, or just remove yours and check for sure....<><....:)

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Offline Busta

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2009, 06:59:02 AM »
Quote from: MSP Ret on February 24, 2009, 06:18:26 AM
Congratulations on your Huntsman Moose, you are going to love it, especially with the new breechplug from Nick. His breechplug seems to cure all the previous problems with Huntrsmans and Sidekicks. Have you removed the breech plug in your 2002 gun to be sure it is a 5/8 and not a 7/8 plug. I would think it would be a 5/8" but perhaps a learned member here could tell us, ot just remove yours and check for sure....<><....:)

All Huntsmans from 2001-2004 and 2004 Sidekicks have 7/8" Breech Plugs. Huntsmans and Sidekicks from 2005 until they were discontinued were 5/8". Nick is working on a 7/8" plug, and I suspect he will have something for us in the not so distant future. ;)
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2009, 09:00:34 AM »
Thanks for the good info Busta, my barrel has a 5/8" breech plug so it must have come from a gun manufactured after 2004....<><....:)

Moose, did you get that info?, your Huntsman may have a 7/8" breechplug....<><....:)
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Offline moose

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2009, 01:06:29 PM »
MSP , took the plug out tonight, it's 7/8" for sure, does he have the 7/8" made yet??? ???. i forgot to measure last night, so when i got from work i measured it. I planned on ordering one tomorrow for sure.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2009, 01:40:36 PM »
as far as I know he was working on them, he may even have some made up by now, he seems like a great guy and a real "go-getter"....<><....:)
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Offline petemi

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2009, 02:45:35 AM »
Quote from: MSP Ret on February 24, 2009, 01:40:36 PM
as far as I know he was working on them, he may even have some made up by now, he seems like a great guy and a real "go-getter"....<><....:)

A yes +1 to that Andy.  They certainly have their act together.  I'm out of fodder for my Huntsman, so I'm going to town today to restock. I want to shoot it with the new plug and my hunting load.  So far, I just LOVE IT :D ;D :D ;D

Pete
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Offline petemi

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2009, 02:56:04 AM »
I shot the Huntsman with both the carriers and the new plug with 777 pellets, and didn't clean between, so I don't know how cruddy it is from the new plug.  I'll clean it and shoot again soon with the new plug and two tripple 7 pellets pellets over  Win. 777 209 primers and let you know how good or bad it is as far as crud is concerned.

Pete 
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Offline moose

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2009, 12:59:48 PM »
called Nick today, and he said the 7/8" plugs should be ready in a couple or 3 weeks, looking forward to trying one in my Huntsman......... ;D
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2009, 01:15:30 PM »
Great Moose, I am sure you will love it when you get it. Pete, thanks for the posts and I am looking forward to your next posts and the info....<><....:)
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Offline kawie

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2009, 04:10:35 PM »
i just ordered my 5/8 breech plug today an i would like to send out a big thanks to nick again THANKS kawie
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Offline 375BRNO

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2009, 06:17:05 AM »
I receive my 5/8" breechplug yesterday, i'm really happy with this breechplug cause i have only 2 carrier left so it's really the best thing that can happen. THANKS Nick

Andre
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Offline Nick Allen

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2009, 01:29:28 PM »
Thank you guys for ordering them. The 7/8" plugs should be ready soon.

Nick :)
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Offline bubba

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2009, 05:42:22 PM »
Thank you Nick and busta or taking on this project
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Offline jjvw

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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2009, 06:43:17 AM »
Nick
You got an address, so I can pay for the 7/8 I ordered?
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Re: Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Huntsman/Sidekick, Blackhorn 209 Compatable!
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2009, 09:57:45 AM »
This should help...

Metrics Unlimited
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