Author Topic: Cowboy action guns. AKA Paperweights? (Read 2172 times)

Questor · « **on:** August 28, 2003, 06:59:06 AM »

I've noticed that a lot of people try Cowboy Action, buy the guns, play with them for a while, and then never use them again. Many of the guys getting into it seem to be buying used guns that are in mint condition. Does this mean that Cowboy Action shooting has little staying power as a hobby for most people? What are your observations?

Tom C. · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2003, 09:32:16 AM »

I have been shooting SASS for 4 yrs. So far, my guns aren't gathering any dust from sitting around. My wife also like it. She didn't really like IPSC. I like getting her out and shooting. I have gotten several friends interested. Haven't seen any dropouts.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2003, 12:25:42 PM »

Now hold on thar a minute pard. :-D

Ya need to ask that question over on the CAS Forum Rudy. I've not used mine all that much but then I'm still in the process of getting all set up for CAS. I'm "nearly" there.

GB

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2003, 01:01:35 PM »

Questor;

I think Cowboy Action shooting will be around and grow for quite some time to come. I think the phenom you mention is the same with most shooting sports that require a certain amount of expenditure beyond guns and ammo. When people start getting into the race, it becomes less fun for quite a few who just want to show up and shoot! I have all the guns, I have all the interest and desire, I just won't go to the extreme of trying to look like I came out of a spaghetti western! In some cases, the attire is optional, but it's become a little cultish! Don't get me wrong, I love to see the guns that have come about because of the interest in bringing back the period! I'm eternally grateful for that. I just don't look good in chaps!

Dan C

DzrtRat · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2003, 02:26:45 PM »

The only problem I have with cowboy action shooting is getting all the "garb" to look "authentic".

For the most part, cowboys in the 1800's dressed the way they did for two reasons, which were practicality and what they could afford. I'm the same way today. I can afford to dress the way I want, and I'm a practical sorta guy. My daily "garb" is usually blue jeans, a western shirt, some lace up ropers, and a straw Stetson. Other than on Sunday, that's about as fancy as I get. Sure, if I'm riding in the brush I'll stick a leather vest on to keep some of the mesquite thorns out, but some of these guys go and spend BIG money on a set of duds so they can go play dress-up. Then they look down on you if you don't do the same?

You should see some of 'em playing dress up in Tombstone. They'll be standing out in the street wearing a black oilskin duster and a black felt hat in 100+ degree heat trying to look "authentic". Something ain't right with them folks, you know it? :shock: :grin: :-D

Big Hext Finnigan · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2003, 04:20:37 PM »

Howdy,

CAS is fun, if you like the whole package. If dressing up is too silly for you, then it's not for you. I guess I don't get the scoffing, but then, I'm a pretty nice guy. One thing about CAShooters is that they will gladly help you understand the historical period.

As for why are the guns in such good shape? We seem to buy lots of them. I have 5 sets of pistols and I'm not even trying hard, it just seems to happen. I've got one set that gets heavy use and gets loaned out. If I sell one or a pair, they are usually something I bought and it just didn't click with me.

Adios,
Hext

Peddler Parsons · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2003, 03:19:53 AM »

I have been shooting CAS for three years and have a ball at it the reason someny have "like new" guns to sell is they try one type then find a better grip style, caliber, or model. Some even change the class they shot and have to have a differt style gun. :wink:

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2003, 01:55:30 PM »

I wish I knew people with the paperweights you mention, I'd sure like to help them remove some of that usless clutter!!!

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2003, 05:36:34 PM »

I like to see the "period dress optional" shoots. There aren't too many of them, mostly local, unsanctioned events. But it allows people who want to check it out, to do so without spending a fortune on the duds.

Dan C

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2003, 09:28:58 PM »

Sorry gents, I'm with Dan here.
The several events I participated in with my family struck me as a sort of Holloween meets Brinksmanship nightmare.

Big Hext Finnigan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2003, 03:40:50 AM »

Howdy,

Interesting discussion.
I guess if there were enough folks who like the old guns, but not the old clothes, y'all could hold shoots without the old west dress. Since so many of us enjoy dressing up like kids and hoorahing around, I doubt you will get much participation from the existing CAShooters, but about half the posters here seem to have an interest in the guns, but don't want to costume, so maybe there's a place for it. y'all should take a run at it.

As a Texas boy, the SASS mimimum is pretty close to what I wear when I work on the place, not much of an upgrade. So for me, the dress is fun. It also brings back some history. As I started to costume up, I found myself learning how much of what I thought about the West was real and how much was out of the movies and books. I'll admit, sometimes I like the movie truth better. :wink:

There's plenty of room for another shooting game. Y'all have at it.
Adios,

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2003, 08:24:30 AM »

Frankly, I could care less. I was originally indicating what I felt might be an answer to the question raised. I've had all the guns since before cowboy action became popular. I still shoot'em plenty without dressing up. But there was a time in the last decade or two, when IPSC was the only game in town, and if you didn't spend $2000 on your pistol, you didn't compete! Now that they have "street" carry options, more people are coming back into the sport. I suppose there's room for another shooting game, but I'm pretty satisfied with the status quo. If I want to watch a good shooting match, then a cowboy shoot is the way to go. If I want to shoot my historical firearms, I can do it, in my jeans and tennis shoes.

Dan C

Tres Equis · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2003, 04:56:26 PM »

CAS is like many other hobbies in that people try it out, might stick with it for a few moths and then move on to other things or they stay with it for years. In that way it's no different than anything else.

The guns part of it is expensive, even used guns will run around $1000. And the costuming can be expensive too. But there's nothing that says you have to have everything before shooting. I have loaned guns to folks, and so have many of the pards I regularly shoot with.

As far as cheap mint-only-fired-one-box guns go, I do not see them very often. Normally, I see what is basically a used gun that somebody wants a new price for. These don't sell very fast. The guns that sell are used guns for a used gun price.

As far as the difficulty in putting together a costume goes: SASS minimum costume is a long sleeve shirt, a pair of non-designer jeans, and shoes or boots that don't resemble modern tennis/running shoes. Nowhere does it say you have to have a hat.

Most people have something like that in their closet already... so it's not necessarily a big expense to start.

Costumes are something that one can work on over time, adding an item every now and then. NCOWS rules say that you have a year to get your stuff together. SASS rules are that you never have to go beyond the above minimum.

I've been to plenty of shoots where people showed up for the first time in ball caps, running shoes, shorts, and a Tshirt without any guns and still got to shoot that day. Nobody talked down to them and they got made to feel welcome. The expectation is that they have the SASS minimums on the second shoot. And they get their irons as they can afford them.

Sure, there are a few folks out there that will try to go beyond advice and guidance and will be real critical about some other pard's attire. Did you ever notice that these people don't seem to have many friends? Might be a reason for that.

But the vast majority of the CAS shooters I have met are friendly and helpful. I've seen a world champion in this sport loan a new shooter a gun for a major match. That probably doesn't happen in too many other sports.

Billy Clanton · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2003, 08:30:26 PM »

Howdy
I have been into "Cowboy Stuff" for well over 30 years. I joined SASS in 1994, and although I do like the historical costuming aspect, I do agree that they can a bit uncomfortable. SASS's minimum requirement is exactly what I wear almost every day. I don't own but one pair of "tennis shoes". Its boots & jeans all the time for me. I got a few pair that I sewed buttons on and I wear them with suspenders and a period shirt & hat, and I'm usually ready to go. I do have all the other stuff but I'm sorta Huge and it does get uncomfortable, so, I usually go with close to the minimum, unless I just wanta get fancy.
Its part of the sport, and SASS allows you to go about as far as ya want. Thats what I like about it
Billy

David L · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2003, 02:12:24 AM »

Hmmmmmm, I was getting into this CAS gig but now I think I need to do more reading on this before I do it to it. I can go with the levis, boots and button panhandle slim shirtsummmm, maybe a straw hat BUT thats it for me.

1000 georgies for 1 gun! I dont think so. I just bought the 1858 Remington 44 black powder and CAN put a kirst converter for the 45 LC but was wanting to use the round balls and black powder for this CAS deal.

Then we have the costume issue. Im just wanting to make a few friends that share the same interest not play dress-up and scrutinize the other guys cloths and gear. I CAN see where you would need the right gun toys, I.e.(capper, flask, holster etc) but period correct chaps, duster etc I cannot go that rout.

Im glad I ran into this post, Im gonna go over to the CAS board and ask a few questions, this is NOT at all what I was thinking about CAS. Also, one post on this being a cultist type of gig, ummmmmm, IF thats the case then I want no part of this CAS thing.

Owell, live and learn, I should have done more reading before I got all excited about it.

David L

Billy Clanton · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2003, 12:38:28 PM »

Howdy
Now wait a minute, pard. Think about this. CAS is probably the most fun of a shooting sport that I have ever been involved with. It's set up to enjoy! Have Fun! If you want to dress the minimum, then thats fine. Jeans and a western shirt are fine. They make some straw hats of palm leaf that are inexpensive and comfortable. Its not that big of a thing.
And gun costs are as little or as big as ya want. Cap & Ball is just fine. There are lotsa shooters out there that go C&B all the time. Tex, SASS # 4, is one of the leading shooters with C&B. You can get into CAS for under a grand if you go with C&B for your pistols, and there are a lotta old Stevens 311's around for $200 - $300 range, same with the lever action rifle.
Yer outfit can simply be a pair of Wellington boots, jeans, and western shirt and hat.
I really believe that if you like the guns, the sport will be a lotta fun. Give it a chance
Billy

les hemby · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2003, 01:01:23 PM »

seems i wear the minimum just about everyday, just need a place to meet in tx as this is very appealing to me.we played cowboys when we were little cant see a reason not to now. the guns have just got more expensive everything else seems about same. can adjustable sight guns be used? I ts amazing how most of us men refuse to grow up, but dont it keep life interesting

boots, wranglers,and a shirt,official tx sunday go to meeting attire :wink:

Big Hext Finnigan · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2003, 01:27:26 PM »

Howdy,

We're in the Lone Star do ya live, amigo? I'll bet there's a club close by.

Adios,
Hext

Billy Clanton · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2003, 02:06:25 PM »

Howdy
Heres 2 sites that you might enjoy and can ask questions about everything

http://www.frontierspot.org

and:

http://www.sassnet.com
These are the heart of the CAS phenomina. Thru these sites you can find clubs and talk to people of a like mindset.
Billy

les hemby · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2003, 02:32:38 PM »

Big Hext i live in garland which is right outside Dallas, was born and raised in east tx (jacksonville)where the cowboy way is pretty much a way of life. where you tip your hat and say yes mam and no mam and if you forget someone will remind ya. i really appreciate info and am going to ck into this. Sure beats football on sunday dont it. I kinda feel if you ever get to old to play,fish,hunt its about over aint it. :wink: (kinda got off subject)billy thanks for links frontier spot is nice DBLeath says there is a place in ferris

Big Hext Finnigan · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2003, 06:01:22 PM »

Howdy Les,

You are smack in the middle of some great clubs.
http://www.texastenhorns.com/

http://www.lsfsc.com/

http://www.comanchevalley.org/

Make sure you check out the Texas forum on TFS. Adios amigo,
Hext

Lucky Deuce · « **Reply #21 on:** September 28, 2003, 07:25:15 AM »

CAS is NOT for everyone...THANK GOD!!!!!!!!

And as for dressing up for "Halloween"... how about the IPSC shooters? They dress like bicycle messengers and have ads all over thier clothes like race cars... And I won't even mention thier EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE specialized race guns that they have to have to compete.

Unfortunately, competiveness at the sake of authenticity has crept into some of the CAS organizations. It seems like some shooters have one reason they are shooting in CAS....to win at all costs (very much like the non-CAS shooting organizations) and could care less about wearing cowboy clothing.... It's to bad they feel the need to subvert an great fun sport.

I joined SASS and found a great shooting organization. True some shooters only wear the bare miniumum to be able to compete but others like myself, try and and put a lot of effort in trying to be authentic. I joined NCOWS because I enjoy re-enacting and they are much more strict as far as historical authenticity which is fine with me.

If all you want to do is shoot then there are plenty of organizations out there that you can join other than CAS. Dressing up as "Cowboys" is part of CAS and if you don't want to do that then so long pardner...

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #22 on:** September 28, 2003, 02:12:04 PM »

Lucky;

There's a letter in this months American Handgunner where an individual attended a CAS event, but I don't know if it was sanctioned or not. He dressed up in boots and jeans, but was forbidden from participating, even though it was his first time and he wanted to see if it was for him. Funny, but I can't recall ever going to another shooting event where a person couldn't participate unless he was dressed up as a bicycle messenger or had a $2000 dollar race gun! Now if I was running an event I'd want to make sure anyone who arrived could participate, particularly if it was their first time! I wouldn't want to tell a prospective member that unless they go out and acquire their clothing first, they might as well not bother buying the guns and ammo! Frankly, the person running that show had his head in his rear end! You're quick to tell people where to go friend. I'd say you and the guy running that event are of the same persuasion.

Regards;

Dan C

DzrtRat · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2003, 06:06:07 PM »

Thanks Dan C. I started to reply to this earlier today, but I don't think my reply would have been so polite as yours. While I may be socially handicapped in some ways, I do try.

I dunno about some of the folks who place so much emphasis on "authentic dress". Have any of them really looked at old photos from that period, or are they just dressing like the folks in a cheap western movie? I've seen a lot of those photos. Considering the trouble it must have been to get a photo of themselves at that time, I figure they must be wearing their best clothes in many cases and I've NEVER seen anything that looked like a cowboy action shoot.

Now, y'all don't go gettin' your shorts in a wad on me. I don't have anything against some folks wanting to get together to play cowboy and shoot sixguns and such. We all have things we like to do for fun, no matter how silly it may seem to others. Somehow, to me at least, it's just the "aire" of the CAS stuff that bothers me maybe?

Lemme see if I can explain.

A while back I went into a local gun shop to check the price of a revolver that I wanted for hunting purposes. While I was kinda looking around, a salesman came up and asked if he could help me. I replied "Naw, I'm just lookin' around and gettin' some prices today, but thanks.". So then he says "Well, you look like a cowboy. You might as well buy you a gun so you can feel authentic!". Well, now my bloods beginning to boil, so instead of saying something like "f&&& you fella" I just gave him a sorry look and said "Fella, I've got plenty of guns. I don't need to buy another to feel "authentic.".

A year or so back there was a friend of a friend who was visiting from another state, and just HAD to see Tombstone while he was here. Ok, so one day we all load up and go to Tombstone. Now, he's got a cheap straw hat on and a little vest, and I must say that he fit right in with the drugstore cowboy crowd that was there. At one point he says to me "Yup Daryl, all ya gotta do is just dress western and act casual, and everybody will think you're a local!". Well, I replied "Norm, I was born here and I AM a local.". He says "No! I mean a local of TOMBSTONE!", and I said "Norm, I don't WANT to be mistaken for a local of Tombstone! Some of these folks just ain't right!".

Folks, no matter how much you spend on fancy duds, no matter how many fancy guns you have, and no matter how many fancy names you come up with for yourself, it won't make you a cowboy. It's a way of thinking, a way of doing things, and something that's in your heart that makes the difference. If a bunch of guys and gals want to get together and go hoo rawin' around riding stick horses and such, then hey, have fun and enjoy yourselves. Just don't go looking down on others that are maybe more "authentic" than you might think.

Lucky Deuce · « **Reply #24 on:** September 29, 2003, 04:26:21 AM »

I guess I did sound kind of pushy in my first post...just when someone who doesn't have a clue starts making snide comments about "Halloween Costumes" or thinks just becuse they own a single action revolver or lever action rifle the rules should be changed to accomodate them, it kind of gets me irate. :evil: :twisted: :evil: :x :evil:

I'm not sure where the individual went but apparently the club was NOT any of the ones I have been to... The Club I shoot with has been very outgoing and let numerous guests try it out, even in T-shirts and tennis shoes... They loan guns and ammunition to those who do not have the guns they need to shoot and I have never seen anyone turned away because they weren't dressed "appropriately"... The clubs I know of go out of thier way to make new shooters welcome and feel confortable. Unfortunately, like any large group or organization, there are clubs with "rules lawyers" who think they know best. I'll bet you have run into them in other shooting sports too.

As for my post and telling people where to go... What I was trying to say was that CAS is not for everyone. If you don't want to "dress up in..as you put it Halloween costumes :evil: " then find some other shooting organization. (This refers to those who think the clothing should be optional.) New shooters and visitors were not meant to be included in this. Normally new shooters are given a year to get thier guns and clothing together and in SASS the clothing is actually very liberal. A cowboy hat, blue jeans, boots, western style shirt and drop holster and the shooter is a movie cowboy. These are all items that could be bought fairly cheaply if the shooter shops around. SASS covers not only the 1800's era cowboy but also the Movie cowboy. NCOWS which I also joined is the next logical step up, at least for me. They try to be as historically accurate as 21st Century shooters can be.
But even then they still allow a year for new shooters to aquire thier equipment.

As for "I dunno about some of the folks who place so much emphasis on "authentic dress". Have any of them really looked at old photos from that period, or are they just dressing like the folks in a cheap western movie? I've seen a lot of those photos. Considering the trouble it must have been to get a photo of themselves at that time, I figure they must be wearing their best clothes in many cases and I've NEVER seen anything that looked like a cowboy action shoot. " Dzrtrat

Yes I agree, unless we have a time machine, we can never be perfect in clothing and equipment so we could look and live exactly like the people in the photo's but we can come close as 21st Century people can. I was into Buckskinning for years and we were always doing research trying to become more accurate. We would spend hours researching and then spend more hours talking among other Buckskinners about what we had learned. Just like the Re-Enactors (Civil War, Revolutionary, Medieval, etc.), those of us in CAS (or maybe I should say some of us in CAS) enjoy trying to Re-Enact the 1800's Cowboy period. Are those who participate in CAS all cowboys NO! (I was raised on a ranch and my first solo horse ride was when I was 3) but just because most shooters have never been on a horse doesn't mean they cannot "pretend". Lets face it, the 1800's Cowboy period, while short has become the stuff of legends. Most of us grew up playing cowboys and indians and watching cowboy movies and tv shows. Roy Rogers or Hopalong Cassidy or John Wayne were as far away from "Real" Cowboys as they could be but they still are "Cowboys" in most peoples minds. Just a hint folks... why do you think they call it COWBOY Action Shooting?

And as I say, its not for everyone. I have heard newer shooters in SASS complain because they had to "dress up" or "want to shoot different guns" and I wonder why they joined. I don't go to other shooting organizations (Skeet and Trap, IPSC, IDPA, etc) and then complain and want to change things. I don't join them because they are not what I am interested in and their rules are not what I want to follow.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #25 on:** September 29, 2003, 08:24:52 AM »

I have the guns! Been shooting them since long before there was an SASS. Don't care much one way or the other. As I stated in one of my previous posts, I'm not particularly interested in SASS or cowboy action shooting. I've always been interested in period firearms, and competition sounds interesting, but since I realize that's a requisite, I'm not interested. Now this forum is single action revolvers. The original thread was a question about the availability of weapons for CAS, pondering why there are so many used ones for sale. I came up with a possible reason, right or wrong. But the merits or detractors to CAS are really not the issue. There's a forum just for CAS. I love everything about the old west, but have no interest in playing cowboys and indians anymore. I'd love to shoot competition with my guns, but I won't ask you change your rules to suit me.

Dan C

williamlayton · « **Reply #26 on:** October 01, 2003, 01:00:32 AM »

i'm lovin this--
i have a thought- if'n ya don't mind.
seems like if ya want to dress up--find a club that likes dressin up or jest go ahead and dress up--hang tha rest, cause when ya can't please everbody please yerself---unless of course it effects sumbody.
if'n ya want to spend money and it makes ya happy, spend tha money-it aint hurtin nobody.
if ya want to just shoot then find a club that jest wants to shoot-thats ok-no matter what enybody else says. heck ol- ie not as old but not young- greybeard seems ta git as much pleasure outta tha back 40 he has as any where else.
boy i'm tellin ya-if we all fell in love wit tha same woman it woulda been a heck of a fistfight. personally i like being naked as it seems to be an all purpose outfit. now --jest a minute--don't go there and fer gods sake don't try an emagine it.
blessings

m-g Willy · « **Reply #27 on:** October 04, 2003, 10:53:02 AM »

Been shooting SAA's , lever actions and dbl shotguns way before this cowboy game ever got started. Love useing the guns and loads they used back in the 1880's and before,but can't really get into the dressing up and sitting on over grown hobby horses. BUT! if'n you like dressing up ,then more power to ya! The best thing about CAS to me is all the new guns they keep coming out with aimed at the sport of CAS. 20 to 30 years ago it was pretty hard to come up with a GOOD copy of a Colt 1ST GEN., or a Winchester 73 or 66, not to mention the S&W guns being reproduced now! So the more people shooting ,the more guns there will be floating around when someone just wants another gun or decides they don't want to shoot cowboy anymore.Whatever the reason,it all leads to more guns.And the more guns then the more competition, and the price's will come down for us shooters :grin: --Willy

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** October 18, 2003, 10:07:45 PM »

this string has jest bout played out boys but let me say this---i aint never, well never yet, been ta one of them shoots but i'd like too and i will one day-if fer no other reason than ta watch--watch tha shootin--and tha dressin up. now i might shoot one day-tha only thang holdin me back is tha loadin, i doan think i'd like ta do that fer some reason, but tha dressin up or down is not an issue--i have never been much of a dresserup anyway. i like reading tha cas forum, readin bout tha loadin, the dress, tha leather, tha guns--it's all real interestin ta me and i git a lot outta it--like tha attitude of tha folks over there--kinda like i've made a friend--kinda like on tha rest of tha forums--feel like i've got ta know sum of you folks and like ya. heck-doan see eye ta eye with all'em but thay is ok folks. shoot fire-doan like ma wife all tha time---she dang shore doan like me a lotta tha time--but we is friendly most, well-er-sum-er-well we have had a minute or two in 40 years when we was alright. i'm kinda hard ta take sum times.
blessings

Old Cane · « **Reply #29 on:** October 20, 2003, 06:01:28 AM »

I'm a pretty low key kind of guy. When I first heard about this I thought it would be great. Then I realized you had to dress up although not much different from the way I did when I was a cowboy. That means we raised and worked cattle. It did not mean I was gunfighter. The two are not the same. As much as I hate to disagree with Hollywood that's just the truth.

I went and watched and it was a little weird. I tried it for about a year. The people were great, it was fun, I just stunk at it. I don't like SASS and so I quit. SASS is not a shooting sport org. They are a business supporting a number of people. They run their business poorly. That's only my opinion. 50,000 others seem to feel differently than me. I still have my guns and still shoot and if SASS went belly up and another outfit took over I would try it again but since any affiliate clubs send a few of my dollars to them I won't do that. I know there are plenty of clubs that are not SASS clubs but they are quite a ways from me and it' not worth the drive for me to stink up the place.

To make a long post longer, when I did go I had a great time. I was treated very nicely as was everyone. Never heard of anyon being turned away unless they were maybe some kind of psycho. One thing that may have something to do with this is, some clubs now require you to qualify before a match, like days before. You get "checked out" ahead of time. This is more for the range/insurance company than some club wanting to turn you away. They may have no choice. Call ahead and find out.

It does seem weird saying lines, riding a stick pony or breaking out of jail but when 40 other grown men are doing it it doesn't seem as bad as you think. It's worth a try. You can show up with nothng and you will be turning people away that want to loan you guns, ammo, clothes and so on.